45/70 and lil' gun

[grinch]

Does anyone use Lil' Gun in their 45/70 contender barrels? I would be using a 405 gr lead. I have a good bit of Lil' Gun and just bought a new barrel. I'm not looking for monster loads, just trying make use of what I have.

[Redhawk1]

I think Lil Gun is too fast of a burning powder for the 45-70. It is a high pressure powder. If you load it to little you cause a high pressure problem, if you load it to much you cause a high pressure problem.
Hodgdon does not even list a load with it.  Personally I would not use Lil-gun in my 45-70. There are better powder out there with proven accuracy, why not do it right the first time. JMHO.  

[jason280]

It can be done, but it takes a good bit of experimentation.  Plus, you'll have to use some kind of wadding inside the case to keep the powder compressed and fill the leftover space.  

I have a few friends who use Unique behind 405gr bullets, and they get velocities around 1050-1100fps.  I can't remember the amount, but its not much more than 10 or 12gr of powder.  You have to use a wad because you don't want to run the risk of igniting both ends of the powder, which could cause detonations.  

To say it can't be done isn't accurate, but you'd better be careful!  Pressures can get out of hand real quickly, so be careful!

[grinch]

Thanks for the responses. It's kinda what I was expecting, but I was attempting to use what I had on hand. I suppose I'll just get a pound of Reloader 7 instead. Better to spend $20 ya know!

 :toast:

[Redhawk1]

It can be done, but it takes a good bit of experimentation.  Plus, you'll have to use some kind of wadding inside the case to keep the powder compressed and fill the leftover space.  

I have a few friends who use Unique behind 405gr bullets, and they get velocities around 1050-1100fps.  I can't remember the amount, but its not much more than 10 or 12gr of powder.  You have to use a wad because you don't want to run the risk of igniting both ends of the powder, which could cause detonations.  

To say it can't be done isn't accurate, but you'd better be careful!  Pressures can get out of hand real quickly, so be careful!

I did not say it can't be done. But it's your gun and your hand.

I said I would not do it. My point is use proven loads, why play with loads just because your to cheap to buy the proper powder.

Reloading is full of common since and this does not make since to me.  And the other thing I hate to see when someone give's advice and the first thing you read is,  "I have a friend." If I don't personally have that experience, I don't give advice on stuff I heard or try to remember a friend did.   :roll:

grinch, please be careful with reloading and using unproven loads. Stick with what has worked and is listed in the books. JMHO.  

[Lone Star]

Since it is similar in burning rate to H110 it probably could be used - Sierra at one time listed H110 data for the .45-70 Contender - but there are better choices.  I tried H110/300-grain bullet loads right out of the Sierra manual, and my accuracy was poor along with erattic velocities.

I've shot a lot of Unique and BlueDot loads in my .45-70s and never used a wad - never had flashover problems either.  Lyman lists Unique loads from 11.0 to 15 grains with the 405-grain bullets and no longer recommends using wads of any kind with that powder.

My accuracy with Unique was usually better if I lifted the muzzle before each shot.  With 17 grains of BlueDot and the 400 Speer it doesn't seem to make much difference at 1053 fps.  Apparently the extra volume of the BlueDot with the long bullet makes the ignition more consistent.

[jason280]

Re 7 is a much better powder.  I use 42.4gr behind a 405gr lead bullet for around 1350fps.


Redhawk,

I don't know what "common since" you are using, but I have shot the Unique loads out of my BC with zero problems.  I'm not recommending the loads of a friend, but going on what I have personally done.  Did I load them personally?  No.  But I trust these guys enough to shoot them in my gun, and the loads worked fine.  Matter of fact, it was actually a very clean burning load.  Plus, you can get a lot of reloads out of a pound of powder using only 10 grains (around 700, if my math is correct).

Besides, anyone with common sense knows that following internet load data is done at your own risk, regardless of the powder or load used.  It doesn't matter if its a reduced load for a .45-70 or full power loads for a .44 pistol.

Now, the question was whether you could load Lil' Gun in the .45-70, and the answer is yes.  But, as its been stated, there are much better choices.  

Stick with what has worked and is listed in the books. JMHO.

Good thing Elmer Keith didn't listen to guys like you, otherwise we wouldn't have the .44 Magnum! :roll:

Oh, and I mean that in the nicest way!!

[Redhawk1]

jason280, thanks for the spelling lesson.    I did not realize I used the wrong spelling. My Bad.

Like I said, your gun and your hand have a ball. As I stated I would not use it.

[Lone Star]

Good thing Elmer Keith didn't listen to guys like you, otherwise we wouldn't have the .44 Magnum!

Those familiar with Elmer's history are well aware that he blew up and damaged a number of guns as he "pushed the envelope" on load development - and he was one of the most knowledgable shooters of his time.  This makes Keith a rather poor example of what to do when developing "new" loads.   :roll:  

The vast majority of reloaders are well served to stick with developed loads.  IMO it is folly to "push the envelope" just to save a few $$$ in powder costs - but like Redhawk said, it's your gun.    :wink:

[bigbore442001]

Stay away from pistol powders in the 45-70. When the first handgun data on the 45-70 came out with the Sierra manual, the data had pistol powders such as WW296, AA1680, etc.

They soon revised it as they could have damaged guns and people. I had some hangfires with some of the powders and ceased immediately.

Stick with the rifle powders. If you want a good one for medium loads, use AA5744.

[Lone Star]

I would agree to stay away from spherical pistol powders in this case, but certainly not all pistol powders.  Thousands of .45-70 shooters have enjoyed lots of mild shooting with faster powders like Unique, 2400, SR4759 and the 4227s, and such loads have been listed in manuals like Lymans for many decades.  Care must be taken to keep charge levels low to prevent excessive pressures, but following listed loads results in plenty of pleasurable shooting.

[Steve Pennington]

Been looking at Accurate 5744.  Seems like the data I have seen indicates that you get decent velocity with less pressure than some other powders.  Has anybody tried this powder in their 45-70?  My barrel is a 14" with TC brake.

[Hopalong7]

I shoot two barrels in 45-70.  S-14 w/ brake scoped and S-16 w/o brake and open sights.  Typically I shoot 300gr Hornadys and Remingtons over Rel7 in the 14"er and 330HP Lyman and various commercial cast 300gr'ers over AA5744 in the 16".  Never tried much else because there just wasn't any need to.  My notes and loads are all packed up right now ( I,m in the process of moving. ) so I can't give any numbers, but they're both common loads found in most manuals....moderate to med.-heavy loads for Contender level.  As my hands get worse( arthritus ), I find I shoot them less, but I still enjoy shoot'n them.  Accurate and the whomp'm factor is great.  GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt