Proper bullet seating depth

[coltfan]

I've just started loading for my 7-30 Waters barrel, and am having trouble determining the best bullet seating depth. I recall from some previous experience with my 30-06 rifle a number of years back that you start with the bullet seated beyond the recommended OAL and coat the bullet with soot (my brother in law actually told me to use lipstick - guess he just wanted to hear his sister laugh when I asked for a tube of lipstick)  :oops: and keep seating the bullet further into the case until the marks from the lands disappear from the bullet. My problem is that I never did get marks from the lands to start with. I believe the bullet was contacting the rifleing since the action would not close with the bullet seated this far out. I finallly decided to just seat to the recommended COL listed in the manual. Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong?

[Paul H]

With a contender, you don't have to mark the bullet, as you can directly access the chamber.  Remove the barrel from the frame, and hold it verticly.  A padded vise is the easiest way to do this.  Back the seater way out, and long load a dummy round.  Seat the bullet in the chamber, and see how far the rim is extending from the barrel with a cliper or depth micrometer.  This will tell you how much deeper you need to seat the bullet to be just off the lands.  Lets say the rim is .025" proud of the barrel,  and you want to be .005" off the lands.  You'll need to seat the bullet .030" deeper.  If your die uses a 1/4-20 seating stem, you'll need to rotate the seater .6 of a turn to advance it .030", as one full turn + .050".

Not all guns shoot most accurately with bullets just off the lands.  I would try seating bullets .005" off and .025" off, and see if there is a difference in accuracy.

[KYODE]

my two methods, which can be used for a double check.
take cleaning rod and insert in barrel from muzzle to breach. mark rod at end of barrel. then remove rod, drop a bullet only into the chamber. hold bullet firmly against lands with pencil eraser or whatever. insert rod again and let it touch the tip of the bullet. mark rod again at end of barrel. measure between marks for approximate OAL.
also, you can insert bullet into chamber as before. take your dial calipers and place over the chamber of the barrel. then let the small slide of the caliper down into the chamber till it contacts the base of the bullet while resting squarely on the barrel chamber end. the caliper reading added to the length of the bullet from base to tip will equal your OAL. double check between both methods is pretty accurate measurement, i think. this will put you in contact with the lands and you can seat deeper from there as desired.

[T/C nimrod]

How about yet another way (not a better way, just another way). I make up an unprimed, unpowdered dummy round. Take a candle and impinge the bullet with the candle - this will give you a "sooted" bullet. Chamber the round in your gun, and remove (being careful not to rub the bullet upon exit) the lands will have removed some of the sooting (if you are set far enough out). Now you can either measure the amount of contact on the bullet and adjust your die accordingly, or, adjust your die depth, re-soot (impinge), and repeat until you have very little contact. When you get to the bullet depth that gives very light contact, adjust your die 1/16 of a turn(deeper), lock, and load.
I then keep the "dummy" round for using to reset the die if it's been changed for other bullets - Noslers will have a different setting than Sierras.
Another note: cartridge oal(col) is important to track if your seating the bullets at the lands, any long cartridges will affect your pressure.

[Whopper Stopper]

Out of curiosity I was wondering if the last two posts were a more accurate method then the one I use. I have just been putting a small bend in the case neck to hold the bullet. I then seat a bullet to just enter the neck, I put it in the gun and close it. I then open it, remove it and measure it and then repeat this about four times and come up with a measurement. As far as I can tell this method tells me exactly when the bullet I am using comes in contact with the lands, and it takes about 30 seconds to do, and I needn't take the barrel off. I am very curious what you people have to say about what I am doing. Thanks

[Whopper Stopper]

T/C. Nimrod Just beat me to it. This is the method I use.

[KN]

Thats the way I do it also.  KN

[Whopper Stopper]

I have talked with the Sierra Bullet Smiths a couple of times on this and they say that Contenders usually shoot the best when the Bullet is touching. They said to use the pre described method and just shoot. I even asked about rising pressures by having them touching and they said as long as I was following a manual not to worry, just watch for signs as I went. I was just surprised with a few of the other methods. Very interesting.

[Possum]

Marv, that is what I did and I am a very new reloader.  I put a tag on that cartridge with a label named chamber.  Then I took my die and "calibrated" it by loading a bullet at different seating depths and noting the turns I made to adjust the die.  I have four rounds which go from minimum overall length  up to the chamber length.  Then as my load develops I can test to see which depth is the most accurate.  I guess if I was more experieced I might have skipped all of this, but it seemed like the right thing to do.

[coltfan]

Thanks for all the feedback, I may try a number of these methods to see if they yield the same length.

I must admit to being surprised by Marv's post about Sierra recommending that the bullet actually touch the rifleing. I too, would have thought this would produce high pressures. Guess thats why I follow this site religiously, new and different ideas all the time.

[Whopper Stopper]

Remember I said Sierra said that contenders usually shoot the best with the bullet touching. But just make sure you watch for pressure signs as you go.

[Bug]

Just a tidbit... Try marking the bullet with a felt-tip pen, like a Sharpie, or Marks-A-Lot, instead of a candle or LIPSTICK!   :lol:  Works the same, just easier & less messy. Wipes off with alcohol. Hic!

[hunter]

i use bug's method for my 7x30. my c.o.l. for my contender is 2.79". that's
.002" off lands. accurate  and reduces pressure :grin:

[T/C nimrod]

Hunter are you slipping into my place and helping yourself to the gun collection? :eek:  I am at 2.800" with Sierras and that puts me .001" off the lands. Who said something about quality control at T/C? :roll:

An interesting side note, I just finished a round of shells w/Hornady SSPB and had to make them 2.873" to get the same .001" distance.

[Greyfox]

Don Bower, who has done a fair amount of very accurate long range shooting with Contenders, recommends "suspending" the cartridge between the breech face and the chamber. To do this you must load the bullet well into the rifling. Sometimes, maybe most, this has worked well for me in Contenders and Encores.

Whenever I get a new barrel, I take one case, run it through a full length die and the cut a slot lengthwise in the neck with a Dremel tool. I then chamfer the case and run it through the die again to restore the right contour. Next, I take whatever bullet I intend to load and barely seat it in the case, then push the cartridge in the chamber with the extractor removed until the base is flush with the end of the barrel. Generally, I do this several times to get a consistent OAL. I save the case and have at least one for every caliber that I reload.

I tend to use a bit less than max loads, as loading into the rifling max cause pressure spikes.

Rick

[hunter]

t/c my favorite bullet is speer 130 gr. sp.