Author Topic: are you sure it's cheaper to reload?? (Read 2284 times)

Frog123 · « **on:** February 20, 2003, 08:16:10 PM »

Are you guy's sure it's cheaper to reload??? I'm still fairly new to this, luckily a friend got me started by giving me a Lyman turret press, powder measure, balance beam scale, case trimmer, lube pad, some .38 dies and cast bullets. I've caught some flak for my spending habits. I've purchased several sets of dies for my more common shooters plus primers, powder, a digital scale along with an extra O-press for sizing and case forming, an auto prime along with several shell holders. Did I mention that I'm building a new reloading bench since the old one won't work, doesn't seem big enough. I still have my eye on a few other items, more dies, a new contender barrel that will have to be reloaded for plus more cleaning and maintenance items since I'm shooting so much more now a days. Is there an end in sight???

Frog

KN · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2003, 08:41:06 PM »

Worst desease you can get. Aint no cure except death. Enjoy it while ya got it. KN

Balto · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2003, 09:43:27 PM »

Cheaper than what? Going to the store and buying a box of ammo once each year for a hunting trip? Cheaper than going out a few times a week and shooting a box of 38 specials? Sometimes I wish life could be this simple. Reloading can become very addicting.

No, it is not so cheap--at least not in my case. I find myself shooting a lot more- a whole lot more. But I also find myself spending waking moments thinking about the brass I have to prep, the bullets I have to cast, the bulk brass & bulk bullets I have to order from midway or graff & sons, the shoot NC targets I have to have, the broken decapper pin I have to replace and on and on and on.

I ponder why one bullet will shoot great in one rifle or pistol but not in another. I play with different powder charges, bullet seating depths, various primers, cases etc. I have devoted days on load developement that could have been spent doing honey do chores around the house, studying the stock market, or fixing something in the house. Experimenting can become very expensive if you let it.

I have shot all (or at least most) of the super big game bullets we read about and many different kinds of powders. And of course I chronograph all my loads. It is enough to drive a guy crazy.

On the other hand I Know a lot of people who just grab their trusty 30-06's a few times a year, grab a few boxes of cheap remington Cor loct factory amunition and go out and kill something. They don't know much about ballistics, they are not saturated with the fear that a cheaper bullet will fail them in the moment of truth. They could care less and are very successful.

If you want to stay cheap I would highly recommend limiting caliber selections, load combinations. if you find a good load stick with it. Maybe add a premium bullet to go along with your cheap pracitice load. If you find one that is real accurate stick with it and do not fall for every new thing out there. Then practice more and experiment less. But then again experimenting is half the fun.......................

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2003, 12:47:05 AM »

hell your just getting started wait and see what this sickness will cost you!

The Shrink · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2003, 01:17:47 AM »

Lloyd

Balto got it, a beautiful description of this particular madness. Yeah, it's cheaper to reload if, like me, you have a couple of guns that nobody loads for. The other option is to hang up those guns, to me not an acceptable option. It wasn't shooting that convinced me that I could handle cap and ball pistols when I was a teenager, it was the fact that I was loading rifle and shotgun ammo with nothing but a Lee loader that showed me what I could do. The fact that my dad was shooting my ammo and asking for more was icing on the cake.

Yeah, it's cheaper to reload if you're shooting 100 or more rounds at a time - that gets damn expensive when you're buying ammo. On the other hand, I posted a while back that I'm not reloading for my 9x18 Mak simply because I got a case of ammo cheaper than I could load - go figure. When we've used that up, I'll once again decide if I should get dies.

To me, reloading means variety and availability. Once I've made ths initial investment I'm saving big bucks, compared to buying all the ammo I'm shooting. I like to think I'm getting better accuracy than the factory ammo, but from what I've been reading that's no longer true. I don't care, I don't want to afford factory ammo, even though now I probably could. I LIKE RELOADING my own. It's fun, absorbing cha,lenging, and I'm in control.

Like I said, it's a peculiar madness.

Castaway · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2003, 02:15:20 AM »

I've not saved a penny by reloading. The above posts detail some of the pitfalls; i.e., shooting a lot more, buying components etc. One thing not mentioned is the "scrounge" mentality. I've been guilty of scrounging brass of a caliber I didn't have. When I got what I thought was enough, I had to buy a pistol to fit the brass! No, you wan't save any money. It's like a boat. The only thing better than having a boat is haveing a buddy with one.

Questor · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2003, 03:52:31 AM »

If you shoot a lot, there's no comparison; it's much cheaper to reload. I can make a box of 45ACP reloads for target shooting for about $3.00. It would cost me about $25 for a box of comparable factory made target ammo. Generally though, a box of reloaded ammo costs about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of comparable factory ammo.

If you don't shoot much, you're probably better off not reloading. It would take too long to recover the expense of the equipment.

jhm · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2003, 04:46:47 AM »

frog its like buying stock someday you will see the light at the end of the tunnel, that will be the dividend on your investment, you will kill your first deer with YOUR ammo not just any ammo that anybody can get off the shelf at the local super-MART down the road. The return on the satisfaction alone you will get is going to be the greatest savings you will ever get, with that said, it also like haveing a boat you have 2 wounderful days the day yuou get it and the day you get rid of it, enjoy.

JIM

Robert · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2003, 04:56:45 AM »

Now you're gonna have to have dies for each new barel. Cheaper isnt always the main consideration, but once you have the main supplies, yes it is cheaper for most ammo. For instance, I got 8mm Mauser Mil surp for 100 bucks per 1000, that's cheaper than re-loading, but now if I want hunting ammo for that rifle it is 15-20 bucks a box. That is cheaper, plus the american loaded ammo is really loaded light, I can get a lot better bullet re-loading. 45 Colt is an excellent example. TRY to find some loaded hot for Contender or Blackhawk, and guess what you are going to pay for it. 45's are usually below 1000 fps. I can load nice 260 gr. Speer jacketed hollow points @ 1400 fps for a fraction of the price of a box of light loaded lead dum-dums, and the dum-dums are NOT accurate in my gun. If your 7.62 or .223 like Wolf ammo, it is cheaper to stock up on that for plinking. Where you really start saving is in the big rifle cartridges. That's what started the re-loading for me. My God man, when I got my Ultra-Mag, I couldnt touch a box of shells for less than 30 bucks. I went through 30 rounds just sighting in. It was then that I realized I needed to learn to re-load. I got smart and started stocking up on 30 caliber stuff. If you buy a box of 100 bullets for one rifle, it will work for another one as well, anything from 300 Whisper to 300 Ultra-Mag, plus I can even use them for my 7.62x39. This will be my (emergency stash). If this country goes to war and we actually get attacked and have a real crisis some day, ya aint gonna be getting any ammo at WallMart. I have a few pounds of various powders that are fairly interchangeable for different cartidges, extra primers, and I am in the process of getting a mold for 30 caliber so I can make my own if necessary. You dont need all the casting supplies and a kiln, just a torch or a fire will work . A bullet puller is good to have also, you can use whatever bullets you can find and re-load them for your rifle. This is a little off-topic, but is just an example. It isnt ONLY about saving money. I dont like to depend on the stores.....for whatever reason.

securitysix · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2003, 06:33:07 AM »

Depends on what you shoot and how you load. Let's take a look at .45 ACP, for an example.

From www.ammoman.com:

FIOCCHI 230 gr. FMJ - $119/500 rnds.
SELLIER & BELLOT 230 gr. FMJ - $119/500 rnds.
WOLF 230 gr. FMJ - $89.95/500rnds.

Those prices are with shipping, and assume you use a credit card. IF you use check or MO, there is a 3% discount.

From www.ammunitionstore.com:

WOLF 230 gr. FMJ - $59.95/500 rnds.
SELLIER & BELLOT 230 gr. FMJ - $94.95/500 rnds.
ARMSCOR 230 gr. FMJ - $87.95/500 rnds.

Those prices are presumably without shipping, though I don't see anything one way or the other regarding that on their site.

Now, let us assume that you are going to buy your components in bulk...

1 lb. of powder should go for about $20 or less, but we'll be pessimistic and call it an even $20. You can usually load 1000 rounds of .45 ACP with 1 lb. of powder and still have enough left for a box or two, depending on the powder. Primers go for about the same, or $20/1000, again, being pessimistic. Brass will be your big expense, $56.02 at Midway right now, but it is usually a one time deal because with .45 ACP, the general consensus is to load it until you lose it. Bullets will be a big factor, but we're going for cheap and bulk, so we'll look at lead, plated, and FMJ, but no hollow points for right now. I can buy Winchester bulk 230 gr. FMJ bullets for $92/1000 after tax at the Tulsa Wannemacher gun show. Berry's plated 230 gr. bullets go for about $85/1000 at a gun shop in Tulsa after tax, Mid-Kansas lead 230 gr. bullets go for $50/1000, Sureshot lead 230 gr. bullets go for $32/1000.

Let's say you'll load 500 rounds at a time, so you're going to buy 500 peices of brass, but you're going to buy everything else to load by the 1,000.

Your first 500 rounds will be like this:

Brass - $60
Powder - $10
Primers - $10
Win FMJ - $46
============
Total $126

All other lots of 500 will be like this:

Brass - $0 (assuming you found all of it)
Powder - $10
Primers - $10
Win FMJ - $46
=============
Total $66

Plated bullets make it come out to $122.50 and $62.50 respectively. Mid-Kansas lead bullets will change it to $105 and $45 respectively, and SureShot lead bullets will make it come out to $96 and $36 respectively. If you already have the brass, you can skip the first lot of 500 costs and go straight to the second lot.

Some of the thinks you listed are one time costs (dies, press, scale, trimmers, lube pad). As the guys have said, you don't really save money, but you do get to shoot more for the same price.

Some things, though, you'd be hard pressed to load cheaper (.223 is a good example) than you can buy loaded in bulk, but these are usually loaded for a specific purpose rather than just flinging lead at paper or steel plates.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2003, 04:11:42 PM »

I don't reload to save money, I reload to shoot more.

Just repeat to yourself,"I am not a reloading addict,I am not a reloading addict, I am not..oh forget it. :roll: :roll:

jhm · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2003, 04:17:46 PM »

securitysix that last post of yours was a well thought out QUALITY post lots of good info. there thanks.

JIM

I am CAL......... · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2003, 05:26:07 PM »

Hello Frogman, If ya concerned about the investment? I would suggest ya don't even think about it.I got to counting up how much I had invested in bullets alone and came up with something like $600.00.Got more than that in powder too and just forget about the primers.Now I ain't gonna think about the dies cause I can load for about fifteen ter 20 different cals. Then ya gotter buy er little brass along.Got three presses,three sets er scales,Four different kinds er trimmers,er bullet puller,er stuck case remover,lube pads and lube.And this is what I can think of right off and I know I got lots more just can't remember.Know what,I ain't no big time loader either.Some er tha big boys got more stuff than that in one drawer.But the satisfaction,peace of mine,all tha pleasure you get from doing yore on thang is unmeasurable.In my humble opinion,I don't think ya saving er dang nickle.We that reload just tell ourselfs that we is saving money ter ease tha pain.Reloading is not for everyone either.I think you have to love the shooting sport,enjoy keeping accurate records of what you are doing,and have time on ya hands to do this in. Now this stuff I named off I didn't acquire overnight either.This came from 30 odd years of reloading and buying this and that. I do believe that every rifle made has one bullet type and weight,one brand of powder,one particular charge of that powder,primer,and bullet seating depth that it will shoot better than anything else available.The fun is to find that particular load and develope it to its maximum accuracy. I think you need to enjoy the challenge of these things rather than trying to figure the expense.I really don't want to think how much I have spent in 30 years of doing this.What ever the price was I think it was worth every penny I spent and I would do it again in a minute.These are just my thoughts on the hobby of reloading or my o2 cents worth.Good luck in whatever you decide to do,I am CAL...

Frog123 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2003, 07:36:16 PM »

Shoot, I'm too far into it now to back out. I got lucky in that an old friend I was visiting with gave me a bunch of stuff that had accumulated in the bottom of a closet. A few of my coworkers found out I was getting started in reloading and have been gracious enough to bring me stuff that they no longer use or have a need for. I have always wanted to get started in this and have found myself picking up brass for a long while before I ever got started. I've almost always lived in an apartment which in itself does not exactly lend to being an ideal reloading space. It seems to be a good way to help pass these spells of cabin fever since I don't think it's ever going to stop raining. If it doesn't dry out soon I think I'm gonna have to invest in gopher wood and a cubit rule. I keep telling myself the same lie I used on my mother to get her to consent to my first compound bow when I was twelve "But Mom, I can shoot the same arrows over and over again" yeah right, only now it's "I can shoot the same brass over and over again" Get ready because I'm sure there will be additional questions and posting to come....

Frog

thomas · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2003, 08:20:38 AM »

Let add it up

1) Dillion reloading press with plates.....................450.00
2) Rcbs or redding for your Target loads...............175.00
3) various dies for your guns................................300.00
4) powder...........................................................150.00
5) different bullets................................................200.00
6) deburing tools and such....................................100.00
7) electronic scales...............................................125.00

cartridge cases.................................................50.00

Forget it too much too list

Tom

Drew25 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2003, 10:04:24 AM »

I am in love with the .45 Colt, loaded to its full potential...now, I can buy Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon ammo at about $1.30 per round, shipping included, or I can load even more impressive/versatile rounds myself with Cast Performance bullets, etc., to the tune of about .35/ea (new Starline brass for each)....and, I shoot it a lot...throw in the cheap practice/cowboy ammo stuff (reloads, with cheap cast bullets) at about .10/ea., and its pretty straightforward that I save quite a bit loading myself...

Regards

carpediem · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2003, 07:43:27 PM »

:eek: Hey Frog:

You have it all wrong boy. We don't reload to save money, we reload to shoot MORE with the SAME AMOUNT of money. In fact, if you really want to get into it, if you want to save money, DON'T reload. Oh if only I'd listened to my paapy when first I came up with this reloading brain storm.

If I hadn't started this reloading thing, I'd probably still be a one-gun shooter. As it is, I have guns in my safe I have not yet put a bullet through.

Careful what you wish for, you just might get it. :-D

Kindest regards,

Carpediem

The Shrink · « **Reply #17 on:** April 10, 2003, 01:16:02 AM »

Frog

Well, it's yes and no. Some load for fun, some are addicted, some because they are privledged to do a lot of shooting, and some for the money saved. I'm now loading 40-70BN and 45-70 in black powder. Yes, factory loads are available, but are running around and above $100/20! I can cast my own bullets and load way cheaper than that. And have the flexability to change out components until I find accuracy.

Me, well, I load for all except (unfortuantely) the "lot of shooting" reason. It's part of the creative challenge for me as well.

IronKnees · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2003, 03:48:26 AM »

In theory, yes... If you purchase a little basic reloading kit and only reload, say, .38 special in some quantity, sure, you will save given that you shoot quite a bit... But, if you do like I have and just have to pick up every little, gidget, gadget, and new "toy" that comes along, including the latest in electronic dispenser/scale stuff, electronic this, new automatic that, etc., heck no! I will probably never recoup what I have in equipment. For me, it's the enjoyment of the hobby, and the cost issue has gone more or less out the window... Just depends on your "handloading" priorities I guess... The other guys are right on when they mention the "bug"...

SeanD · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2003, 12:33:29 PM »

Ouch! I guess im using the cheap stuff! A lee press and rcbs or hornady dies work great. I shoot nosler partition seconds at about 50% off. For me, reloading is much cheaper. If you figure what the box of premuims costs verses the cost to reload, its much cheaper, at least for me.

klsm54 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2003, 03:55:41 AM »

Of course it is cheaper!... :wink:... when you add up the cost of a bullet, a primer and a little bit of powder. Lets see...223, bullet 9 cents, primer 1.5 cents and powder 6 cents. That makes it about 16.5 cents a round or equal to $3.30 per box of 20. Can you buy good varmint rounds with a premium bullet for that amount? What about the brass you say? What about the equipment?... :eek: :? ....Brass is reusable so I never consider it a cost.....Equipment? ....that is classified as "Toys" in my house. If I wasn't buying a new reloading gadget, I would be buying a new fishing rod or gun or scope or whatever, Toys!...Toys = Fun. Shooting = Fun..... I have it all figured out, in my mind anyway.... :lol: :lol:

Tom W. · « **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2003, 12:00:13 PM »

Cheaper? I just looked at my Midway purchases on-line history.... I've gotten electronic scales, a new press, several sets of dies, brass galore, cartridge boxes by the case, lubrisizer, molds. handles, lead pots and God knows what all else, not to mention what I pick up when I go to town because "I gotta have it." :lol: I dunno about cheaper, but it's been a relaxing hobby for over 25 years now, and I'd rather cast bullets than buy them, except for the Sierra GameKings.
When loading for pistol and revolver a can of powder lasts an awfully long time. I have a 4lb. can of Bullseye that I've had for years.

If you are going to worry about how much it is going to cost, or if it's cheaper or not, the fun Will go out of it and you'd be better served just buying a box or two when you want to shoot. It's a hobby and an addiction, and as my wife tells me..."But you said that if you got THAT you'd never need another one,as it would last the rest of your life!"

daddywpb · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2003, 08:10:56 AM »

You won't see any savings untill you've paid for all the equipment, but for me that's not really the point. Reloading is a hobby all it's own. Sometimes you see a savings, sometimes not - it depends on how much you shoot. Enjoy it!

Lvl1trauma · « **Reply #23 on:** April 26, 2003, 04:32:33 PM »

Reloading can save you money. The next question is will it save you money? Probably not. You shoot more trying to find that just right load. Everyone I know is still looking for the perfect load because there are always new bullets, powders, guns available. I constantly experiment yet I almost always go back to what has been proven to work for me. I guess I just like to tinker. Keep good records, though- gun, scope, conditions, date, group size, etc. You will, without a doubt, find yourself referring back to them in a few years to see what has and hasn't worked.

Now that you are into reloading you get to buy a new front rest, chrono., more cleaning stuff and new reloading bench.

High initial investment, but well worth it in satisfaction.

Just my observations,
Beau[/u]

HBL · « **Reply #24 on:** April 27, 2003, 09:05:47 AM »

Take the 22 hornet.

Costs right at 7 cents per round to reload. That's $3.50/box. Cost at a store for comparable loads is between 20-25 dollars. I can enjoy this caliber more and shoot 300 rounds for the price of 50. Once the initial investment is paid for. The reloading becomes cheap compared to ammo suppliers.

Of course you can buy cheap 223 ammo and other calibers real cheap, but they are no where near the quality you can reload yourself. Especially since you are creating the perfect or near perfect round for your particular firearm.

Questor · « **Reply #25 on:** April 29, 2003, 08:30:21 AM »

Saving money means not spending it in the first place. Taking up shooting guarantees that you're spending money. So reloading doesn't save money, it means spending it more efficiently. For example, I can shoot 200% to 500% more bullets for the same money. The equipment paid for itself within the first year. I wish I had a truck that I could drive 200% to 500% more for the same money.

Hcliff · « **Reply #26 on:** April 30, 2003, 05:50:36 AM »

It starts off so you can save money. It will be cheaper when you keep shooting at the same pace that before you started if you are shooting a fair amount of shells.

Than come the addiction. I want to try This bullet and that bullet. Then you get another kind of powder. Then you buy more cases. How about another gun? Then you starting shooting more etc.

Some of it depends how your personaility is and how much time and rounds you shoot. Remember if someone asks it is because it is cheaper (good standard answer for those who don't understand). Ther is a great feeling of harvesting an animal or getting a great group with your own rolled ammo

I personally don't save money but I shoot ALOT more reloading

Hcliff

longwinters · « **Reply #27 on:** April 30, 2003, 02:36:29 PM »

ooo boy, I just got a RCBS turret kit, a set of dies, an electronic caliper, a pound of powder, a small box of primers, a box of bullets and my own brass. NOW you guys tell me that I HAVE TO BUY more reloading dies, shell holders, powder, primers, bullets and manuals . . . I guess I'll just have to "bite the bullet" and go do a little more shopping for my other calibers this weekend. You know you are absolutely right . . . this is an infectious condition. Once you start there is no stopping. Oh oh, then I have to shoot the cartridges Ive made up so I can make more of different types to experiment with. I can see that I need more time and more money.

Questor · « **Reply #28 on:** May 01, 2003, 04:57:26 PM »

Longwinters:

You don't have to get stuff other people tell you to get. That little voice in your head that tells you to indulge your hobby by summoning the brown Santa (i.e., the UPS delivery man) will start speaking to you as it begins to figure out what you can do with that turret press.

Or it may turn out that you just load for one caliber. That's mostly what I do. I've already got the press so when I got a rifle, it was only natural to get dies and components rather than buying factory ammo for it. Likewise for shotshells. I recently got into that because my son started shooting and he likes it. I just did the math and figured that it'd be cheaper in the long run (and in the short run too) to just get a shotshell press.

Good luck with the new stuff.

As far as the experiments in one caliber are concerned, that's one thing I never have understood. I prefer to make one load for a gun, then stick with it or I get confused about where the gun shoots. It may take me a while to get one I like, but once I find it one that's good enough, thats the one and only.

rocco · « **Reply #29 on:** May 10, 2003, 10:33:27 PM »

When I started loading it was to save money to shoot more .But then I really started to injoy it .Went downstairs put on the radio got some coffee and loaded its fun . Reminds me when I started catching my bait for fishing .First it was to save money for the bait now I injoy it almost as much as fishing sometimes more .