Blasts rock London...

[ironglow]

Now London has received their (to quote Benjamin Netanyahu) " wakeup call from hell"...

     Scotland Yard says that the past weekend's "aid to Africa" concert made movement of such terrorists easier..

  Could possibly be from some of those same guys that were released from Guantanamo back to their former status in England..
   Seems I recall a demand by some in Britain to return some of their "citizens" from Gitmo..
 
   I do believe that they won't have the same reaction that was brought about by explosions in Spain.

    The Brits are made of STERNER STUFF.

   Oh for sure they have their "cave in " crowd just as we do....probably the same gang that recently demanded (and got) the cessation of fox hunting in "old Blighty".

    I would hope to think, from historical experience, that the terrorists  do not find another Spain here..
 
    I don't believe that British courage fails easily..
   
   More likely, these scum terrorists now have a "tiger by the tail"...

[Nightrain52]

Yes, ironglow, I think most of the people in Great Britain will come out fighting but you can bet the naysayers will holler the loudest and get the most publicity. Our hearts and prayers go out to the people of Great Britain.

[jh45gun]

I hope this just brings sterner resolve that these terrorist have to be dealt with by all countries not just Us and England.  Jim

[Norseman112]

I voted fight back.
I hope this brings other countries together more and realize  we need to rid the world of such scum that kill innocent people.  

Norse

[Leverdude]

I voted fight back as well. I just hope they can keep their focus on who did it & why & not get bogged down in a political mess.

[spraynpray]

I voted fight back, bring to fight to the terrorists door step.

Becha gun ownership is going to play a role here, say a Brit see's a suicide bomber, what is he going to do?  Jump on him? Most likely not. While here in the US a citizen packing a canceled weapon could drop the bomber in a heart beat.

[Rogue Ram]

......until the US and allied  commanders quit being pussies and quit playing by rules. Think of it as a boxer playing by boxing rules vs. an ultimate fighter, no rules.  Who do you think will win?  

Terrorists take some prisoners, only to kill them on Al Jazeera to further terrorize us.  Why do we take prisoners in this thing?  For what purpose? We aren't winning in Iraq, we are getting nowhere because we've tied the troop's hands. We pulled out of Afghanistan in force, and allowed the Taliban and Al Q to run amok....now a couple rags with an RPG kill more SEALs than we've lost since Nam altogether.  We treat terrorists like prisoners of war, 3 hots and a cot.  We put pressure on Russia to be "nice" to Chechen rebels----look where it got their school children---and now we are facing Chechens in Iraq. We pressure Israelis to be "nice" to those people and in return Israelis get blasted to bits.   The insanity goes on and on and on.   Its time for it all to end.  Green light the Israelis and the Russians, and if Pakistan won't handle its border problem then we do it, by force or by glassing it into a parking lot.  

I am getting tired of Bush's "...bring them to justice..." statement.  No George, I don't want to spend my tax dollars housing some POS terrorist.......just come out and say  "we will hunt them down and kill them like rabid dogs" NO PRISONERS.  They don't take prisoners, after all..........

Very Rogue Ram

[DirtyHarry]

I think they should fight back, but I suspect they will cower...

[powderman]

I hope and pray that the world will wake up and see these Godless, subhuman scum for the mad dogs they are and treat them accordingly. They are satans disciples doing his work. In my opinion, islam is a fast growing cancer. These people have one goal in life. To murder ALL, ALL, ALL, non muslims, and world domination, satan will settle for no less than that. Human life means nothing to them, not mine, yours, their childrens, or their own. They want to go to hell, so be it. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x

[magooch]

The only cure for this virus is total eradication.

[fe352v8]

Those that carry out and support the activities and attacks should be brought to account, without regard to religious affiliation.
 
Numbers vary but there are somewhere around a BILLION plus Muslims in the world, about a 1/5 of the worlds population.  Are you proposing genocide?

Thought out history innumerable crimes and genocide have been committed in the name of one religion or another, it was stupid then and it is stupid now.  Anyone can take any “holy scripture” and find a sanction for killing and demonizing those who believe differently.

Terrorism is terrorism, not “holy war”; you punish the perpetrators of the crime, not those that share a religious label.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[Rogue Ram]

CNN is reporting a splinter group of Al Q took responsibility, and I thought I heard there was some warning signs but nothing specific (isn't that always the case).

These people won't stop until we completely squash them, and any country that supports them. When I say completely, I mean completely. The harborers of these roaches has a choice: kill them, turn them over to us, whatever, but do it or die. Period. Otherwise we are going to end up like Israel and Russia.........dealing with these maggots on a tit for tat level because of pressure to be nicey nice to them. The only remaining choice to to pull out of the middle east completely, cut off all aid, etc. and go home........but your car and my truck don't run on alcohol, so there you go. Even then they might not stop.

Its a crappy situation we find ourselves in; you live near a major metro area or are just visiting one you are a target.  I won't take ANY promotion to a major city, I'm staying put making my "ok" money and living on my nice safe farm. That pretty much means they've won this round with me personally, but the only thing the average Joe can do is limit his exposure to areas these worthless maggots might hit next.

Here's hoping the next SEAL team that returns from a mission comes back grinning ear to ear with empty mags and NO PRISONERS.

 :twisted:
RR

[ironglow]

FE357;
           ...Whew!...that's a leap...who said anything about genocide..
 
   If you're taking about Magooch's statement about "viruses"...I presumed him to be calling terrorists.. viruses.
   
   Don't expect he was talking about our Iraqi/Arab allies...

      ...Guess we just look at things differently...

[fe352v8]

I was struck more by a portion of  PowdermanÂ’s post,

 Â“I hope and pray that the world will wake up and see these Godless, subhuman scum for the mad dogs they are and treat them accordingly. They are satans disciples doing his work. In my opinion, islam is a fast growing cancer.”

I have no argument treating terrorism an terrorists as a virus.  My position is one must distinguish between a Muslim and a terrorists.

Just as all Klansman claimed to be Christian, very few Christians were Klansmen, all these terrorists may claim to be Muslims, but few Muslims are terrorists.

As for “ friends and allies”, remember where the Taliban came from and what country Osama was from, and the nationality of most 9/11 hijackers.  How many troops do these “friends and allies have deployed with ours.”

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[powderman]

I stand by my statement. Muslims are taught to hate from birth. They put their faith in their koran, written by a warrior, warlord, named mohamed. He was a lot of things, warlord, warrior, murderer, rapist, butcher, but certainly not a prophet of God. He taught hatred, intolerence, and death to ALL non muslims. Name even ONE of Gods real prophets that taught these things. Even the so called good muslims are taught to hate.They may smile at you in public, but curse you in private. Those Godless scum who flew the planes on 9-11-01 lived here. Several had lived here for 3 years or more, seeming to be friends with their neighbors. They were sleepers waiting on orders from ohsatan bin laden. There are probably thousands here just like them. I don't trust any of them. The soldier that fragged his friends as they slept, and the so called snipers, all were recent converts to islam. My own neice converted to islam. The first thing she did was renounce Jesus Christ, and turned her back on her Christian family. She is no longer welcom in my home. You like em, you live with them. Satans disciples seems to pretty well describe them. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x

[Leverdude]

As for “ friends and allies”, remember where the Taliban came from and what country Osama was from, and the nationality of most 9/11 hijackers. How many troops do these “friends and allies have deployed with ours.”

Noone wants to talk about that. Or how we trained osatan bin laden just like we're training his cousins in Iraq now. We have no allies in the Arab world. We have those that tolerate us for the allmighty dollar but we have no friends.
Today we train & arm the people we will fight in the future. In the name of peace of course.  

[fe352v8]

I realize it is fruitless to reason with blind prejudice, however; Mohamed was born of Bedouin parents circa 569.  His father died shortly after his birth and his mother died when he was about 8.  He was then raised by an uncle where he worked as a shepherd boy.   At ten he accompanied his uncle as a caravan leader.  He was later a caravan leader.  There is never any mention of him as a warrior, soldier, or warlord.  In later life he was a merchant and had married a well to do widow.

The Koran does not teach hate towards non-Muslims any more than the Bible does towards non-Christians.  As for tolerance, estrangement of a member of ones own family, over religious faith, is not exactly a demonstration of it.

I would submit that expressions of prejudice based upon ignorance, are exactly the same justification used by Muslim extremists.  The scriptures, of every religion, have been used by people to justify their hate and prejudice, but in the end it is always the personal bigotry of an ignorant hand full, not the command of the divine.

A simple fact is these terrorists are killing far more Muslims than Non-Muslims.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[ironglow]

FE352;
  While I don't endorse any form of genocide, I do firmly believe that they are following a false God.
   Of course, they think the same of Powderman and myself..and would kill us if they could...and YOU too...
   
    I think that SOME of them are less aggressive...because they are not taking the mullahs quite so literally..
   
Let's look at the Koran:
 
Sura 9:123
   "O you who believe! Fightthose of the unbelievers who are near you and let them find you in hardness....

   Sura 9:5
    " So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolators wherever you find them,and take them captive and beseige them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. Then if they repent and keep and keep up prayer and pay the poor rate, leave their way free to them, surely Allah is forgiving, merciful ".

  Note:  ( Explains why "Islam" obviously means "submission" rather than simply "peace".)

  Sura4,Ayat:91

       ..." Then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these we have given you clear authority."


    Loving critters, huh !  

  Now Fe352, before you start bringing up Old testament battles and ancient Christian history; let me tell you this:
 
 Old Testament:  
        As Christians, the OT is very valuable to us, but our chief doctrines come from the " New Covenant" that Jesus christ gave us in the NEW Testament...
   So, if you wish to refute me; get it from the NT..
 
Ancient history:
  Yes, there were some evil, misled people who called themselves Christians, that led inquisitions, pogroms and massacres in centuries past.
    Frankly, I doubt that they actually were Christians in the full sense of the word...but that's for God to decide..
   
     We Christians of today disavow those acts just as strongly as we would today's bombers if they were Baptists, Methodists or Nazarenes...we would be clamoring for their heads...
    Probably Ted Bundy called himself a Democrat or Republican when he did his evil...but that doesn't mean it was "party policy".
   If he did so, either party would be ringing the rafters, calling for swift justice for this killer...
 
   So where is the clamor from today's muslims ?
 
     Estrangement of ones kin:
             It's difficult and fruitless to " deal with the devil "..for one who has seen the light and turns away from the true light...there is not much more to discuss.
 
    Incidentally, comparing the two "faiths" reaction to foreign conversion..
 
 Estrangement is much preferable to beheading..is it not ?
   
    Now for Mohammed:

   You picture this "Prophet" of Islam as a simple shepherd boy, rather like David....

   Apparently you did not read his WHOLE biography..or perhaps you read a  " sanitized" version...

  Try the Muslims own biography.... The Hadith..it tells the story of Mohammed and Ayesha.
  Ayesha was the child of Mohammed's best friend...Mohammed had the hots for her...
  Noprmally, this would be a problem for most people, being that Ayesha was only 6 years old.
  No problem for the "prophet"...he married her anyway..
    Of course, he was kind and understanding..he didn't consummate his marriage until she was 9 years old...at that point, Mohammed was 54 years of age..

   Fe357...what do YOU call a 54 year old man that does that ?
 
       I certainly wouldn't call him a " holy prophet".
   
  The Hadith is not the only source..see
 
     <http:/www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm>

   
  If you don't like that source, just do a Google search using the two names...Mohammed & Ayesha...

    I'm sorry to break your bubble...naw, not really...

[fe352v8]

I have no bubble to burst, and I have no sympathy for terrorists or murders, whether divinely inspired or not.

I never referred to Mohamed as holy or a prophet.  Furthermore I am not endorsing his life as an example of piety, but it is clear he was not a warlord either.

As you wish to avoid the inconvenience of OT brutality directed at non-believers, by the “faithful, then I can readily concede that in the NT, that the believers are no longer committing the acts in Gods name, they are only telling people that God will be doing it, unless they believe this way.  In either religion it is an issue of exclusivity based upon adherence to a proscribed belief system, as interpreted by itsÂ’ members.

True Christianity, as an institution, has reframed from the wide scale killing of non-believers for about 500 years (crusades, inquisition, etc.).  Given Islam is about 500 years younger then Christianity, perhaps in another 500 years they will become as enlightened as Christianity has.

I would submit that every religion believes that every other religion worships a false God.

I could care less about ones religious affiliations.  I judge a person as an individual based on behavior, not on the basis of their religious or political affiliations, racial, ethnic, or country of origin; otherwise it is simply bigotry.

Those that justify the killing of others, for no other reason than their religious beliefs or for any reason other than their individual actions, are just different sides of the same coin.

The only difference between the faithful and the fanatic are the fatalities caused by the fanatic as an expression of faith.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[ironglow]

FE357;
  We're not far apart in many of the ways you mentioned..i appraise folks on about the same scale as you use...content of character not color of skin (Dr King) etc, etc..

[powderman]

The muslim holy book lists 123 places where they are told to kill all infidels, unbelievers, non muslims. Here are a few examples.
Regarding infidels, they are the inveterate enemies of muslims., SURA 4; 101.
Muslims are to arrest them, beseige them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. SURA 9; 5.
They are to seize them and put them to death wherever they are found, seek out the enemies of islam relentlessly. SURA 4: 90.
Fight them til islam reigns supreme. SURA 2: 193.
Cut off their heads and cut off the tips of their fingers. SURA 8 : 12.
Muslims must make war with the infidels who live around them. SURA 9 : 123.
Muslims are to be ruthless to unbelievers. SURA 48 : 29.

Their children are taught this garbage. I see them as satans disciples, they certainly aren't doing Gods work. They see death, as simple as opening a door. They are raised to believe that by murdering innocent Jews, Christians, or any other non muslim, that God will reward them. They believe that when they pull that string, or flip that switch, they will be given immediate entry to paradise, our Heaven, and God will give them 72 virgins to satisfy all of their desires. This of course is just a lie, started by their mohamed. Imagine their surprise as they open their eyes in hell. God does NOT reward murderers. After proclaiming himself a prophet, mohamed led an army against the Christians in his part of the world. His message was simple, islam, or death. In many of their mosques, maybe not all, they preach hatred and death. They are as mad dogs, and their mosques are their lairs. The day will come when the world sees them for what they are. Peaceful religion??? Don't bet your life on it. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x

[fe352v8]

I do not disagree that hatred is being taught in, the name of Islam, by some.

Any religion’s scriptures, as they tend to deal with moral absolutes, can be perverted, literalized, and radicalized to justify senseless killing, be it radical “Islam”, radical “Christianity”, or “Judaism”.

Admittedly, 72 virgins is a tempting offer, especially for a young man, but the Christianity offers a rather nice reward for the martyr, less sensual than Islam to be sure, but not bad.

No doubt some people have been galvanized to commit atrocities by some rather evil people, in the name of religion.

What is the solution to this; for America it is a difficult problem.  We have constitutional issues, like the First Amendment.

Do we punish speech that incites violence, if so then check out Exodus, 35:2, sure it is OT but add some NT, like Mathew 23:1 through 3, and Mathew 10:34, and let the killing begin.  

I offer no opinion, on which religion is “correct”, however taken literally it is not difficult to “justify” killing those that believe differently in the name of either.

I do not feel that the terrorism is a holy war.  Religion is just being used as a recruiting tool, excuse, and justification, by less than holy people, to further their quest for temporal power.  Just as the alienation and disaffection are lame excuses for barbarity so is God.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[IntrepidWizard]

WE MUST PROFILE ALL MUSLIMS OF BOTH SEXS BETWEEN 14 AND 40 NO EXCEPTIONS-----PERIOD

[fe352v8]

While tempting to allow government to “profile”, think of the unintended consequences.  As in example:

According to CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005, there were about 30,000 gun deaths in the US for 2002:

·17,108 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
·11,829 homicides (39% of all U.S gun deaths),
·762 unintentional shootings (3% of all U.S gun deaths),
·300 from legal intervention and 243 from undetermined intent
       (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).

Just considering the homicides of 11,839,  roughly four times more people died than on 9/11, how long do you think it would be before gun owners are “profiled”, in the name of security?

Be careful what you wish for, government can be a very evil genie.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[powderman]

A guy I work with flew to another state a while back. He was searched, had to remove his shoes, and stand with his arms outstretched like Jesus on the cross. The PC crowd was not searching the muslims, or any other foreigners, only AMERICANS were being searched. Guess they were afraid of being labeled prejudiced, or racial profiling. Guess that makes sense. If you fear being blown up by a muslim, search an obviously white American. If racial profiling at airports will save lives, do it. I could give a rats crap what others think. POWDERMAN.    

[fe352v8]

Funny you should mention airport screening.  My stepson spent his 30 days leave, after returning from Iraq, with us.  When he left for his new billet in Okinawa, he was singled out for special attention, after his dog tags set off the metal detector.  While flying with my 81 year old mother she received that special attention, my 14 year old and I did not, I would have scanned my kid, he is kind of swarthy.

Haven’t a clue how they decide these things, no doubt they had input from “military intelligence”.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

[ironglow]

fe;
  About a month after the 9/11 event, my son , daughter(in-law) and grand daughter about 3yrs old at the time , flew across the country (NY State to LA)
   The two ladies look like a Swedish mother & daughter modelling team, both very pretty and very blond. My son is all-American in appearance..about like Brett Favre (sp) quarterback.
   They were pulled out of line for the complete "shakedown".
  Inspectors said the candidates for inspection were "computer chosen".....really!..computers don't have that great old "experienced cop" way of spotting potential problem people..

  In front of them were 4-5 Middle east looking types...no interest by inspectors...
 
   They had `everything gone through, including opening several vacuum packed packages of clothes ( try to put a genie back in the bottle)..

   I just figured it was a good example of political correctness overcoming common sense....

[magooch]

If common sense was the watch word, no middle east or muslim looking folks would be allowed on any airplane, bus, subway, or even allowed out in public places.  If that offends anyone--so be it.

[Leverdude]

If common sense was the watch word, no middle east or muslim looking folks would be allowed on any airplane, bus, subway, or even allowed out in public places.  If that offends anyone--so be it.

I guess that might work if theyre werent any other greasy, hairy dark skinned people. I'm of Italian ancestry & my hair is as often as not a bit long, I'v had a beard since high school, I work on roofs for the most part so I'm rather dark skined 9 months out of the year. I know I resemble a mideastern  man often, no question. So I guess I should be kept off airplanes, busses & other public places? Sorry I'm an American & so are lots of muslims.

If common sense were what we used we'd just anhiliate the places where these people hail from. Not lend a hand or financial aid. We'd treat enemies like enemies period. We want the oil? Take it, to the victor goes the spoils was once common law. Now its to the victors goes the bill. No wonder they think we are a bunch of women.  :roll:

[FWiedner]

...Sorry I'm an American & so are lots of muslims.

The four bombers in the most recent attack were discovered to be "British".  Native borne and bred.

The lesson to be learned here?

They speak of peace, they play at being decent and law-abiding, but make no mistake, they are Muslim FIRST.

If they thought it would get them a step closer to one or two of those 72 virgins, they'd choose to kill you where you stand on the 4th of July while you were singing The Star Spangled Banner under an American flag, at the base of Mount Rushmore.

The Brits have been taught that there are no "British" Muslims.

We should take that as a warning and accept that there  are no "American" Muslims.

 :?