Author Topic: .338-06 Ackley Improved (Read 1710 times)

rwj · « **on:** July 11, 2005, 03:41:51 PM »

I am new to the .338-06 Ackley Improved. My first load consists of 56.0 Grains of Varget. Measured velocity out of the 24 inch barrel is 3160 fps (average of 5 rounds). I am currently using Hornady's 200 gr. interlock bullet. Any one out there with more experience with this wildcat who can give me more information would be appreciated.

BigBrass · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2005, 11:01:09 AM »

Is that literally your starting load? Because it seems that you are starting with a pretty heavy powder charge. Are you starting low and working up with your loads?

In my 338-06 AI, I have been getting good accuracy with 225 grain Hornady Interlock bullets and IMR 4350

rwj · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2005, 07:47:00 AM »

I started at 56.0 grains of Varget based on the info in Hornady's 5th edition reloading manual for the 338-06 and the same bullet. Hornady states 57.3 grains as maximum for the 338-06. I am working with the improved version (338-06 Ackley improved) which holds approximatly 5% more powder. I have fired 10 rounds with no signs of excessive pressure.

jro45 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 17, 2005, 12:56:18 PM »

Whats the most FPS you can shoot the 250gr bullet in the 338-06 Ackley improved? I'm just courious.

rwj · « **Reply #4 on:** July 17, 2005, 04:24:18 PM »

I am only planning to use 200 and 210 grain bullets with my 338-06 Ackley Improved. I have been told that once you get into 250 grain bullets or heavier that cartridges like the 338 mag will have the advantage since they will hold more powder. I can tell you that I shot 2 -5 shot groups at 100 yds. with the load I am working with now (56.0 grains varget and Hornady 200 grain interlock bullet). Again, this load averaged 3160 fps and grouped less than 1 moa at 100 yards. I am pleased. :lol:

jro45 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2005, 03:27:56 AM »

Sounds like some real good shooting.

TexasNimrod · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:11:17 AM »

:oops:
This may be a stupid question, but what will a 338-06 with a 210 grain bullet do that a .30-06 won't do with a 200 grain? According to the Nosler #3 manual, you can get the 30-06 within 100 fps of the 338-06. I can't tell a difference in the field with a 100 fps difference.

rwj · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2005, 08:02:05 AM »

Manuals will give you very useful information. Work at the bench and in the field also provides useful information. The fastest I have been able to push a 200 grain bullet in my 30-06 with 22 inch barrel is 2700 feet per second. My 338-06 Ackley Improved shoots a .338 diameter bullet (versus a .308 dia. in 30-06) 460 feet per second faster (3160 vs. 2700)
That is a measurable difference in the field!

nomosendero · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2005, 10:27:58 AM »

rwj
You should be pleased! I just checked the Horn.#5 & they show 2,900FPS
with the 200 in the 338-06. You can figure that the AI version will give you
another 125-150 FPS in this bore size. I would bet that you have a "fast"
barrel which happens sometimes. I am not happy when I get a "slow"
barrel, but that happens too. Your velocity & accuracy combined is very
good & I would not part with that gun. I think the 210gr & 225gr. are perfect for this round.

Good luck!

Ramrod · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2005, 12:27:04 PM »

Quote from: TexasNimrod

:oops:
This may be a stupid question, but what will a 338-06 with a 210 grain bullet do that a .30-06 won't do with a 200 grain? According to the Nosler #3 manual, you can get the 30-06 within 100 fps of the 338-06. I can't tell a difference in the field with a 100 fps difference.

Actually it's a very good question! I don't think anyone would be able to tell the difference in the field, especially the animals being shot. And if a fella wants bigger bullets, well there is always the .35 Whelen. The .338-06 and the AI versions of anything, along with most all wildcats, are all about fun and games, and playing with numbers. Anyone who thinks they have the next best thing to sliced bread, though, is only kidding himself. A few hundred fps. more or less, or a couple or three hundred foot-pounds (one of the most useless formulas ever invented,BTW) is pretty meaningless out there in the hunting world.

nomosendero · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2005, 07:14:14 PM »

Texas Nimrod
The original post concerns the .338-06AI & not a 338-06. You said that
there was only 100 FPS difference, but oh yea, the 210 instead of the 200
& oh yea a 338-06 intead of the AI., not to mention the fact that other
manuals show more spread. You see his velocities & I have loaded about
30 years for the excellant 30-06, but I can not get close to 3,160FPS with
the 200 GR.& neither can you! You comparison has no relevance here.

Ramrod
This is the first time that I was told that a few hundred feet per second
doesn't matter. Now a couple means 2 at least it does in the hillbilly
school I attended & even at ASU later on so I assume you mean 300FPS
or more! That would be the difference between a 30-06 & a 300 WM or
in other words a 9" difference at 400 yards in drop with a 250 yd. zero which for me gives me 100 yards less effectiveness.
1.Some of Ackley rounds help increase velocity alot and some a little. How
shocking it was for me tonight to find out that NONE of the rounds are
faster enough to matter! Actually the .250 Savage AI offers the largest
increase and gets into 257 Roberts factory territory. I bet that would
matter to some people! I currently use a 30-30AI, a 30-06 AI & I have
a 25-06 getting the Ackley treatment plus getting the receiver trued up
& a skim bed, it is in a gunsmith's shop in Montana now.
The 30-30 AI is a Contender Super 14 & I get 2,400FPS with 150 Nos BT's.
This is a big gain, look at the manuals in the 30-30 rifle section & see!
I shot an Antelope with this gun at just under 200 yards on my last trip to
Wyoming, I would have declined this shot if my Con. was a std. 30-30.
The 30-06AI offers a smaller gain but getting nearly 3,000 FPS with a 180
is a gain, the Hor. lite mag. round is close, but that would limit you to one
load & a bullet that is not my favorite & my rifle doesn't like it.
The .25-06 AI is a great round & with 115-120 gr. bullets it is half way
between the 25-06 & 257 Weatherby, with the 100 gr. loads it is very near
the 257 "factory" load. This will help trajectory some but it will help with
wind drift more!
I understand the .375 offers little in vel. gain but gives you a better shoulder for head spacing which brings us to point # 2.
2. The sharp shoulder gives better head spacing especially for the larger
caliber rounds.
3. The sharp shoulder also reduces case stretching & flow, increasing case
life & reducing the times that you need to trim the case.
4. You have less "back thrust" which reduces pressure, however the
downside is that as you increase loads, you can have pressure spikes, so
increase loads with care, but you should anyway or quit reloading.
5. By using an accurate reamer, you can clean up the chamber, which in
most factory guns is loose anyway, & this can & often does increase
accuracy.

I started not to respond since I don't have a load for the .338-06 AI but
I thought that I should respond to the apples to oranges comparison on
the one hand & the broad brush statement about the Ackley's on the other.

rwj
Again I say congrats to you for getting a good rifle & if it pleases you,
that's what counts.

Ramrod · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2005, 03:40:07 AM »

nomosendero, why is it that none of the big gunmakers ever chambered AI rounds. I don't like to repeat myself, but here goes...
The .338-06 and the AI versions of anything, along with most all wildcats, are all about fun and games, and playing with numbers.
Have fun!

nomosendero · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2005, 04:52:38 AM »

Ramrod
It makes more sense for gun makers to come out with entirely new
cartridges for people to buy. This also gives the ammo companies
entirely new cases to sell instead of you buying a AI gun and fireforming
your old cases. It makes ZERO sense for ammo companies to introduce
AI rounds from their point of view.
My point was made regarding the performance differences which you did
not address. But I do think less serious shooters should stay with standard
rounds.
Have a nice day.

nomosendero · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2005, 05:51:04 AM »

Oh no, I forgot about the Lawyers, who actually run the show these days!
Can you imagine a reloading newbie buying a factory AI gun & then feeding it a std. round that may be a hot round for the standard case
or seating the bullet too deep for a fireforming round or many other
goofy possibilities? No, the liability risk would be too great & no way would
a big Co. like Rem. or Win. be willing to do this.

Actually some of the smaller, semi custom rifle companies do chamber
the Ackley round, but their market is the more serious shooter who can
walk & chew gum at the same time.

This has no bearing whatsoever to my original post, where I was explaining the fact that ALL Ackley rounds were painted with a broad
brush, which was inaccurate & still is.

Most of the time I use a standard round & sometimes I use a magnum
round for special purposes & sometimes I use an Ackley round. They all
have a niche for me & personal use is what it is all about. But my choices
are based on facts & real #'s & not opinions or arm chair discussions.

Thanks: Rod Smith

handirifle · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2005, 07:49:21 PM »

Ramrod
Actually another major advantage of AI rounds is FAR LESS case stretch because of the sharper shoulder angle.
Let's see,
Longer case life
greater velocity
greater downrange energy
flatter trajectory
Seems pretty logical to me.

The biggest drawback is no factory AI ammo, but factory CAN be safely fired, usually with little loss in accuracy, and the cost of dies.