Author Topic: 204 Ruger or 223 ???? (Read 1664 times)

quickdtoo · « **on:** July 12, 2005, 04:03:02 PM »

Pros and cons of both for varmints, please??

Thanks,

Tim

De41mag · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2005, 04:40:42 PM »

Well, Tim, lets see...

Pros for the 204;
Total vaporizing of smaller varmits. Very high speed. Seems to be very accurate from what I've heard. Suppose to be easy on the barrel.
Pros for the 223;
What else... a military cartridge. Ammo can be had anywhere. Very accurate. Full metal jacket stuff can be found for $4.00/box or less.
So that means a lot more plinking for a lot less. Good to 300yds on varmits. Some can shoot further. And for the price I don't have to reload for it. Just ordered 1,000 rounds of the Win. White Box 45 JHP's. Getting them for $11.87 for a fifty (50) pack. That's shipping and all.
I've been reloading for over 20 years. I want something to shoot cheap and not have to reload.
Heck... I've still got two boxes of the Nosler Preminum Brass that I won at the PD shoot out in OK.

I think I'll stay away from the Cons of both. Can't type fast enough so my post will not enter.

Dennis

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2005, 04:42:59 PM »

Dennis, where ya gettin the WWB for that price???

Thx,

Tim

De41mag · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2005, 05:03:36 PM »

Tim;

I'm getting them from a friend I met at the range. He belongs to some gun club that get's a discount from all the major ammo and component manufactures. I turned him on to the White Box stuff. And he's a Benchrest shooter. He goes out west every year to see his son in WY, and spends about a month out there PD shooting.
So we order the stuff a couple of cases at a time.

Dennis

Coastwatcher · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2005, 05:42:26 PM »

.223 because of bullet choices available. Every manufacturer, every weight and style.

.204 eventually will have some more selection available.

lik2hunt · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:55:28 AM »

I plan on having both soon.

mitchell · « **Reply #6 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:06:15 AM »

lets just say i have had both but i've still got the 204. the two biggest pros for them are. the 204 will shoot flat , mine will shoot flat enough to just hold on and fire on a groundhog or yote out to about 325. and that will come in handy . about the only thing the 223 has on the 204 is ammo is cheap but if your a true varmint hunter your going to handload anyway . you can forget bullet choices the 204 has all of them you would ever need. sierra and hornady have varmint and berger* has match all the match bullets you would need . the 204 wins hands down no question.

BTW you can't have overkill when shooting varmints.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2005, 04:31:44 AM »

In the "real world" there are few differences important enough to make a decision between them. One will do what the other will.

Velocity? Not the difference most think there is. Factory claimed velocities seem seldom to be reached in the .204. Put them across a chrono and you'll find the 32s coming closer to the claimed velocity of the 40s and the 40s falling well short.

You can easily push a 40 in a .223 to 3850 to 3900 fps from 26" barrels. At that velocity it's moving as fast as the 32s from the .204 so say most who have run them over a chrono. If you need more you can buy 35s for the .223 and reach about 4000 honest fps with it.

Ammo is much more expensive for the .204, bullet selection far less and cases cannot be found dirt cheap like for the .223.

I made shots to 450 with the .223 at the PD shoot and yeah with the 40s I was holding on to over 300.

There just really isn't enough difference between them to matter. Get the one you like or get both.

ironduke2 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2005, 07:26:53 AM »

I have them both in handi's and CZ 527 and love them all. Bob

stiff neck · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2005, 08:21:33 AM »

If you're talking about these calibers in a NEF rifle, there is a bigger difference than you might think.

Last time I checked, you could only get a short 204 barrel. But you can get a 24" 223 barrel. That makes a big difference in velocity. What's the point of having a "super velocity" round with a short barrel that reduces the velocity by 200fps?

NEF needs to get on the ball and offer 24" and 26" barrels for some of these varmint calibers.

aulrich · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2005, 09:51:26 AM »

Right now the biggest advantage of a 204 over a 223 (in a handi) is the extractor vs. the ejector , no more stuck cases :-D .

I don't have enough in the field experience yet with my 204 to compare the 2. I'll have a better feel for with a couple of more trips out. My shooting partner shoots a 223 so if here is any difference it should show up. about all I can say now is that he gets a higher percentage of flips where most of my hits result in chunks? :grin:

My gut feel is that the 204 is inherently more accurate and I would attribute this to the use of the superior 222 magnum case. the 223 was chosen over he 222 mag because it's form worked better in automatic's not because it was more accurate.

When it comes to fur hunting the potential is there for something great. But the plastic tip bullets are not like to be the winner there. Now the winchester load or one of the berger heads (I have got the 35 gr head on back order @ cabelas as we speak) those could be great fur heads.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2005, 10:28:56 AM »

Here's are some nice comparisons as to why the 40gr 204 Ruger shines at long range over the .223 Rem...I included the 32gr .204 and 45gr & 50gr .223 loads for comparison. This also explains why Silverfox likes the .204 for coyotes!!

Tim

Datil · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2005, 11:50:44 AM »

Quick I think you need both then make up your mind,
which you like best :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Marv,

Norseman112 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:02:31 PM »

I have a .223 ultra and was thinking of getting the 204 barrel. Hummm decisions,decisions. Perhaps I should wait til they come out with a longer barrel for the 204. Oh heck I don't know if I can though

Norse

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:34:13 PM »

Quote from: Datil

Quick I think you need both then make up your mind,
which you like best :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Marv,

Geez Marv, you should know that I already have both :roll: , I just posed the question for others that are on the fence and for a friend who asked. :wink: I was also interested in terminal effects, I haven't shot anything that moves with either of mine yet!!!!

Tim

.223 Ultra Varmint

.204 Ruger Handi

hellacatcher · « **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:15:02 PM »

I have a buddy who sayies he doesn't want a gun you can't get a 22 cleaning rod through. I have bouth and really like shooting the 204 over the 223, I even got to put a coyote down this spring with 204.

Norseman112 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:15:47 PM »

Those are nice looking handi's you have there Quick. So how do you like your 204? Thanks ...

Norse

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:25:46 PM »

Thanks, love it, it's kind of a 17hmr of the centerfires!!!

Tim

Datil · « **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2005, 01:28:32 PM »

Quick, I was thinking you ask to get some idea on which you
wanted. My son has a 203 , I shot on the PD shoot, really like it.
May have to get a 204, for next year! Got a 44 Mag, and 45-70
Have not shot enough to get sighted in and find a load they like.
Have good one Quick

Marv.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:02:57 PM »

Heh heh, the .223 UV was my first new Handi....then last October I was in my favorite gun store and they had a new 204 Handi on the shelf, it went home with me!!!

Tim

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:15:25 PM »

Do not have a 204 but have 2 223 handies, both 22in bulls both shoot better than I can with the ww white box. Wish one was a 24 incher but I got such a good deal on them why not. My son can shoot one off the bench, too heavy for him to hold yet & I shoot the other. Good father son comp. I can still outshoot him but he's not quite 9, still have my bluff in but don't know how long that will last :-D
Would like a 204 but can shoot alot more right now with the 223. Maybe later if one comes up at a reasonalble price and brass goes down. Would like to try one though

aulrich · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:25:17 PM »

For those of you conserned about the 22" barrel here is a test from the bullberry guy. Velocities are not that far off from the 24".

http://www.bullberry.com/204Rugerdata.html

Nuttinbutchunks · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2005, 03:50:00 PM »

One thing I like best about NEF is that if you can't make up your mind just get both of what ever you're cosidering. :grin:

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2005, 04:16:21 PM »

What you NEED to do is to plug in some real world numbers instead of those fictious ones you're using. Then the comparison will be more even. It's no great trick to push a 40 in a .223 as fast as they claim to in the .204 but in fact they do not do it in the .204, it's only advertising hype and in fact they fall on average about 200 fps short same as the 32s do.

The loads I was shooting at the PD shoot were running about 3850 fps from the .223 over an Oehler Chrono.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2005, 04:43:26 PM »

Here's a great thread at PM on the 204 Ruger...some nice charts developed from load work that Silverfox has done..... :wink:

Tim

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=362021&page=&fpart=1&vc=1

mitchell · « **Reply #25 on:** July 14, 2005, 02:01:17 AM »

well i really don't care what the other numbers say the number that makes or breaks a bullet is the BC and with those the 204 blow the 224 out of the water. the 204 is the same pricable of the 17remington , take the same bullet weight put it in a smaller caliber to increase its BC shoot it at the same speed and see who's better . just like shooting a 130gr bullet in the 30-06 and the 270 would win . better BC's will make or break everything