Author Topic: Southern Tier rifle bill awaits Pataki! (Read 4298 times)

NYH1 · « **on:** July 13, 2005, 10:05:58 AM »

At least that is what it says on the cover of this weeks Outdoor News! If Mr. Anti Pataki signs it, you'll be able to use rifles in Allegany, Cattaraugus, Chenango, Herkimer, Montgomery, Oneida, Oswego, Otsego, Schoharie and Tioga Counties as well as rural parts of Broome County. It passed both houses of the state Legislature! Lets hope he get off his dead *ss and signs it!

Ramrod · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2005, 05:47:52 PM »

Oh Happy Day!!! Now thousands of guys who know absolutly nothing about rifles will run to Dicks, or Gander Mountain and get talked into buying 7mm and .300 magnums. They will all be out there on the new SATURDAY opener popping away at deer 400 or more yards off. Oh happy day!!! :roll:
Alot of guys I know have been hunting 30 years or more and have never fired a centerfire rifle.
Sorry, but I don't want to be in the woods when they do!

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2005, 03:51:59 AM »

You're already in the woods with guys who are using in-line muzzleloaders that have a range far greater than most any slug gun out there as well as people using Encore/Contender "handguns" that have a range only slightly shorter than their longer barreled cousins.

I am hoping that when this bill is approved that hunters use the same safety guidelines that they follow now when using a slug gun. Any hunter worth their merit should know their target and what is beyond.

Rifle hunting has worked in PA for years and their accident rate is similar to NY State's.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2005, 03:53:30 AM »

Quote from: Ramrod

Oh Happy Day!!! Now thousands of guys who know absolutly nothing about rifles will run to Dicks, or Gander Mountain and get talked into buying 7mm and .300 magnums. They will all be out there on the new SATURDAY opener popping away at deer 400 or more yards off. Oh happy day!!! :roll:
Alot of guys I know have been hunting 30 years or more and have never fired a centerfire rifle.
Sorry, but I don't want to be in the woods when they do!

You mean the same thousands of guys that grab their shotgun opening day after it sat in the closet from the previous season. That don't really know s**t about them either. It can be scary.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:09:53 AM »

Quote from: WNY_Whitetailer

You're already in the woods with guys who are using in-line muzzleloaders that have a range far greater than most any slug gun out there as well as people using Encore/Contender "handguns" that have a range only slightly shorter than their longer barreled cousins.

I am hoping that when this bill is approved that hunters use the same safety guidelines that they follow now when using a slug gun. Any hunter worth their merit should know their target and what is beyond.

Rifle hunting has worked in PA for years and their accident rate is similar to NY State's.

I've been a proponent of rifle for a long time. I do hunt with all three right now shotgun, contender pistol and muzzleloader. I'm hoping this bill is passed. The safety risk maybe slightly elevated but if "COMMON SENSE" is practiced there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I hope Gov. Pataki sees it that way and signs the bill before licenses come out.

Ramrod · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:24:16 PM »

WNY_Whitetailer, I know all about the Encores and Contenders, not 1 hunter in 100 uses them. And most handgun hunters here in NY are dedicated and practiced shooters. The muzzleloaders have very little if at all more range than a modern sabot shotgun slug. I don't worry about either group. It's those "thousands of guys that grab their shotgun opening day after it sat in the closet from the previous season" folks str8shooter48 just mentioned, who will all be re-arming with .xxx(name your caliber) Winchester Short Magnums because thats what the guy at Dick's says you need that scare me. It's not like anyone is going to drag Grampa's old .30-30 out of the closet, grampa used a shotgun too.

The reason rifles have always been banned in these counties was that they were much more populated than the Catskills, or the Adirondacks, and the terrain was flatter. What has changed? This thing is all about money, the state needs to sell more hunting liscences, safety be damned. Look at all the state and county sales tax revenue on those new gun sales, and the state's share of the Pittman-Robinson excise tax.

By the way, str8shooter48, common sense seems to be a rare commodity nowadays.

NYH1 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:50:56 PM »

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Me personally, I like the idea. The area around Fort Drum has exploded with people the last 15 years or so. Population wise, its probably just as if not more populated then any other suburban type county in upstate NY. They have always been able to use rifles up there! I don't recall them having anymore trouble in that area then any other area. Most states let you use what ever firearm you want to use, they could care less. Again, everyone is entitled to their opinion!

Ramrod · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2005, 07:20:33 PM »

If things go as usual for me, I will have some venison before the southern zone opener. So if this thing passes, come opening day I think I will just parade along the road in full camo with my shorty AR-15 on my back. It will be a legal hunting outfit. I hope I can scare enough people into writing their state representatives to repeal this stupid mistake.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2005, 12:45:04 AM »

Quote from: Ramrod

If things go as usual for me, I will have some venison before the southern zone opener. So if this thing passes, come opening day I think I will just parade along the road in full camo with my shorty AR-15 on my back. It will be a legal hunting outfit. I hope I can scare enough people into writing their state representatives to repeal this stupid mistake.

As much as I hate any kind of restrictions. Thats the kind of mentality that makes me wish they would put restrictions on the use of semi automatic rifles during deer season in these areas. The scary part there's probrably a lot of people that think their shorty AR-15 is a perfectly fine for deer hunting :cry:

Heres a quote from one of your prior post: "By the way, str8shooter48, common sense seems to be a rare commodity nowadays". Your quote above is a prime example of lack of common sense. Us hunters have to band together. The Anti's just love to hear and see s**t like that.

NYH1 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2005, 06:04:25 AM »

Quote from: Ramrod

If things go as usual for me, I will have some venison before the southern zone opener. So if this thing passes, come opening day I think I will just parade along the road in full camo with my shorty AR-15 on my back. It will be a legal hunting outfit. I hope I can scare enough people into writing their state representatives to repeal this stupid mistake.

You're a pretty efficient thinker there Ramrod. You can kill two birds with one stone. You can turn people off on "hunting" and "assault weapons" all in one act! Don't forget to use "five round magazines", I would hate to see you get in trouble! :bye:

NONYA · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2005, 06:14:32 AM »

great idea Nimrod you are the kind of hunter that ends up giving responsible hunters a bad name.Sounds like you just dont want more people hunting to me,grow up!

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2005, 09:12:45 AM »

Quote from: Ramrod

If things go as usual for me, I will have some venison before the southern zone opener. So if this thing passes, come opening day I think I will just parade along the road in full camo with my shorty AR-15 on my back. It will be a legal hunting outfit. I hope I can scare enough people into writing their state representatives to repeal this stupid mistake.

I wish you would have taken the time to think this statement out before you put it out in the internet for everyone to see. Good luck getting your deer before the opener as I assume you will be taking to the woods with archery equipment. I would hate to think that one as astute as yourself would not sink to poaching. :?

I used to think that allowing rifles in some Southern Zone Counties would be a bad idea until I did a little research into hunting in PA. They have had rifle hunting there for many a moon and their accident rate is very close to NY States if not better.

It would be my hope that any hunting taking to the woods with a new firearm take the time to become proficient with that weapon regardless his of her choice of hardware. That goes for any hunting implement not just rifles.

BTW, the effective range of an in-line muzzleloader loaded with 150 grains of Pyrodex is greater than any sabot loaded rifled bore shotgun.

Let's all be careful out there with what we do and how we speak and act...The Anti's are lurking

NYH1 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2005, 09:35:45 AM »

Quote from: WNY_Whitetailer

Let's all be careful out there with what we do and how we speak and act...The Anti's are lurking

Yep!

Ramrod · « **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2005, 02:08:31 PM »

WNY_Whitetailer, you are missing my point when you bring up PA. They have a long tradition of rifle hunting. This part of NY has none. Most of the guys here will run to Wall Mart, Dicks, or Gander Mountain and due to their ignorance they will buy what the gun rags have been pushing lately. This likely means alot of Winchester Short Magnums will be in the woods in the hands of alot of inexperianced rifleman. A dangerous scenario in my opinion. I don't even want to think about the road hunters! :shock:
And I could care less about any anti's lurking here. Personally, I almost think it would be better to ban deer hunting in the southern tier than to put centerfire rifles in the hands of some of the BOZOS I see hunting around here. :cry:
If you guys don't like my opinions, too freakin' bad. I'm not the only person in this part of the state that thinks this is a bad idea. I just believe in speaking up. Hunters sticking together my *ss.

NYH1 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 15, 2005, 02:36:13 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod

If you guys don't like my opinions, too freakin' bad.

Right back atcha!

NONYA · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2005, 06:40:06 PM »

Nimrod you sound like the kind of hothead that dosent deserve access to anything dangerous maybe you are one of the lurking and we just dont know it?

Ramrod · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2005, 05:15:24 AM »

Yeah, Mona, maybe. Or maybe you have to resort to personal attacks because you have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion.

NONYA · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2005, 05:58:45 AM »

Nimrod,Im responding to you because you stated you were going to try to give rifle hunters in your area a bad rep by walking up the road with an assultrifle trying to scare people...I wish your neighbors knew what kind of idiot you were so they could keep an eye on you,and if you are presaeson poaching I hope they catch you and throw the book at ya.Im willing to bet 99% of the people you are ranting about buying rifles have better shooting ethics and more common sense than you do,you should worry about you and your friends not the guys that get a chance to rifle hunt this year.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2005, 06:01:03 AM »

Quote from: Ramrod

If things go as usual for me, I will have some venison before the southern zone opener. So if this thing passes, come opening day I think I will just parade along the road in full camo with my shorty AR-15 on my back. It will be a legal hunting outfit. I hope I can scare enough people into writing their state representatives to repeal this stupid mistake.

Talk about adding a real unintelligent reply to the topic in this disscusion. Yours my friend takes the cake. As I see it the statement above really opens door for criticizm from people on both side of the bill.

NYH1 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2005, 04:13:29 PM »

Easy with the personally attacks guys. I'm not a moderator, but I really don't want them getting involved if you know what I mean!

In Ramrods defense there are a few ways he can legally hunt deer before the southern zone regular gun season opens. The northern zones regular gun season opens almost a month before the southern zone does. Then there is archery and black powder that opens before regular gun seasons in both zones.

Everyone IS entitled to their opinion on this and everything else for that matter!

Ramrod · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2005, 01:06:20 AM »

Thank you, New York Hunter, at least there is one person here that actually knows both the game laws, and the forum rules. (except in the Southern zone the blackpowder season is after the regular season.)

As for my oft quoted other post, I don't understand why it would upset anyone. Like I said, it is a legal hunting outfit under this "wonderful" piece of legislation everyone here is cheerleading for.

I still say it is a bad law, and I hope Pataki vetos it. If you want to hunt with a rifle go up north, or head for the Catskills, they are much more sparsly populated. Most of the supporters of this bill live in the towns and cities and don't have to worry about rifle bullets whizzing around their homes and loved ones. Folks out in the country have already had enough bad experiences to know the dangers involved here.

Lee · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2005, 10:26:01 AM »

Ramrod,
I dont know your location but regardless of wether shotgun or rifle are used some locations are inherently dangerous due to terrain or other reasons. It sounds like you have had some bad experiences and maybe something could be done to improve the saftey in your location.
I have lived just outside of Albany for 30 years in Rennsalear county
where rifle hunting is allowed, across the river in Albany county it is shotgun only. I can honestly say that the terrain and population density in both of these countys are in my opinion about the same. That said, I know that in Albany county houses have been struck by slugs and a car was struck while going down I 90, I am not aware of any such incidents taking place in Renns county (rifle zone) in my years here.
Central and southern NY are not nearly as heavily populated as the areas near Albany so these changes seem reasonable to me. In 30 years time the incidents I am aware of have all occured with shotguns. Last year I hunted in shot gun territory for the first time in central NY, I was shocked at the number of shots being fired compared to rifle zones. Of course I cannot explain why but I assumed it was because the shot guns were not as accurate but maybe that was not the reason.
Personally I think heavy shot gun slugs when used in open and flat areas are prone to skip like a stone skipping on water and are more dangerous than a rifle bullet. I wont claim to be an expert on this but I believe rifle bullets either break up, bury themselves, or riccochet higher into the air and lose energy rather than hug the ground.
I probably did not change your opinion but possibly rifles will be safer than you think. Regardless, I hope your home and property will remain safe and sound.

utica ny · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2005, 11:54:07 AM »

Hey guys we teach hunters to know your target and beyond!!!
a slug wont go 200 yards, a rifle?

honestly we all know someone will be out there unloading there semi rifle,and I don't want to be there.
localy here there isnt huge tracks of land and i see many hunters everyday. The thought of possibly bieng shot from far away will probably keep me out of the woods now, Too many hunters in too small spaces.I hope this doesn't pass but if it does I will give it up alltogether.

NYH1 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2005, 12:20:56 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod

(except in the Southern zone the blackpowder season is after the regular season.)

Sorry, I'm not into archery and black powder hunting! :-)

NONYA · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2005, 06:27:57 PM »

so you just poach deer b4 the season opens and mess with the rights of lawful hunters during the legal season?You are a real piece of work. :eek:

Raging480 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2005, 04:44:56 AM »

UUUhhhh, Nonya, I think what NY Hunter was saying (In response to Ramrod) was that he was apologizing for being mistaken as far as when the southern muzzleloader season was. No one has implied that they are going to hunt anything illegally.
Obviously, opinions are going to be across the board here, the point should not be the implement used, what should always be stressed is the actions you take afield. Know your target and beyond. Whether you are using a 300 wsm Encore pistol, 12 ga. sabot slug, revolver, 30/30, etc. Stay safe, and stay civil.

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #26 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:31:35 AM »

We can keep this discussion going as long as you want but please refrain from personal attacks...We all have our opinions and some of us like to pontificate but don't make it personal. It's not worth getting all worked up over. The ability to think independently and have your own opinion is one of the things that makes this country great.

PS - If you have something that you think would not be appropriate for the forum please take it to the PM's...

No name calling...Geesh. I think we are all adults here...

D' :oh:

NYH1 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:35:08 AM »

Quote from: Raging480

UUUhhhh, Nonya, I think what NY Hunter was saying (In response to Ramrod) was that he was apologizing for being mistaken as far as when the southern muzzleloader season was. No one has implied that they are going to hunt anything illegally.
Obviously, opinions are going to be across the board here, the point should not be the implement used, what should always be stressed is the actions you take afield. Know your target and beyond. Whether you are using a 300 wsm Encore pistol, 12 ga. sabot slug, revolver, 30/30, etc. Stay safe, and stay civil.

Raging480, thank you, you are correct I was apologizing. I don't archery or black powder hunt so I don't really know all the laws regarding them.

Quote from: Ramrod

If things go as usual for me, I will have some venison before the southern zone opener.

We shouldn't jump to any conclusions. Nowhere did Ramrod say that he was going to hunt illegally. Maybe he lives on a road that has a lot of deer/auto accidents and the people don't want to the deer so the trooper lets Ramrod have it. My uncle is in his mid 60's and has never hunted deer but he usually get at least one a year this way. Maybe he gos to Canada or some other place were the seasons open before they do around here. We don't know.

I don't agree with Ramrod on this particular issue. Which is fine, he has his opinion, I have mine. Nor do I think walking around carrying an AR-15 to scare people is a good idea either. I will however say that last fall I was having major problems with my Remington 870 shotgun that I use for deer hunting. I posted the problem on the "Shotgun Forum" of this sight and Ramrod gave me more advise on what to try and do then everyone combined. He didn't know me (still doesn't) or have a nickel invested but we PM'ed each other back and forth for a few weeks until my problem was taken care of, which Remington ended up fixing.

ironglow · « **Reply #28 on:** July 22, 2005, 02:39:42 AM »

Ramrod;

I guess I don't fully understand what some of your posts convey...

In one post you say that you have never fired a centerfire rifle...then in another you talk about carrying your shorty M16..

This does not compute...unless you are an M16 collector, in which case you wouldn't want to carry it slung for many days during our typical NY deer season.
Actually, I don't believe that an M16 in any configuration would be allowed for deer hunting, being only .223...

I do tend to agree with you that semi-auto rifles should not be allowed (my two cents)..but I also don't like semi-auto shotguns for the same reason..many of the shotgun accidents occur when someone "opens up" on running game..can't HONESTLY check the backstop while unloading 5 quick shots at a running deer..
In fact,several years ago I wrote to DEC suggesting a "single shot rifle season"..
Personally, I believe that a single shot rifle is tha safest combination in smokeless powder...much like the single shot handguns are.

Hunters will absolutely be sure of their target before firing...and "sound shots" should be eliminated.
It seems like turkey season, with bird shot has as many accidental shootings as deer season...clear proof that "sound shots" do take place, unfortunately.
The many years that I did hunt deer, I usually used a single shot shotgun (H&R) and NEVER shot at running game.

I personally, enjoy the accuracy of a rifle and do not care for the "gas pipe, cover the area" approach of a shotgun. That is why I never hunt turkey, geese or anything else that requires shotgun only...even though my recreational property is overrun with both..
I have not hunted deer for several years and this is ONE of the reasons why.

If the rifle season comes in, I have an H&R .44 mag that may try.

In fact, if the single shot season were initiated, it would be a boost for one of my favorite companies...NEF..

If the rifle season comes in, I may just buy a new NEF 30/30 or .243..one shot is enough for a real rifleman..

Barring a "single shot " rifle season, I'll welcome a regular rifle season.

Raging480 · « **Reply #29 on:** July 22, 2005, 05:29:35 AM »

IMHO, no need to restrict the different action styles of weapons. Despite the fact that I hunt with revolvers, a shotgun touted as the "speed pump," a Desert Eagle semi-auto, a slick lever action '94, and a Rem. semiauto 7400, I have NEVER taken more than one shot at the same deer. Oh, yeah, there was one time. I was archery hunting, and my first arrow went under the deer. I was hunting from the ground, and I was able to nock another one and I got her! I am so reckless....lol

NY Hunter- I strongly suggest you give bowhunting a chance. I never thought I would, and I absolutely love it!