Author Topic: Southern Tier rifle bill awaits Pataki! (Read 4299 times)

Forest Walker · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2005, 06:08:54 AM »

So far I cannot confirm this but it looks good to me

http://www.thedailystar.com/sports/2005/07/22/spbrock.html

Ramrod · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2005, 12:02:32 PM »

ironglow, where did I say I never fired a centerfire rifle?

Quote

Alot of guys I know have been hunting 30 years or more and have never fired a centerfire rifle.

I have been shooting centerfires for over 30 years. It's those guys I am scared of.

The rest of you guys should read the story Forest Walker linked to. Brockway is a knowledgeable and well respected local writer, and he has some reservations about this bill too.

ironglow · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2005, 02:14:38 AM »

Sorry ramrod...I misread your sentence about not having fired centerfire rifles..
Still, I don't believe an M-16 would be legal at .223 cal.
An AK would probably be...and that's no improvement.

I really don't think that simply allowing a rifle season will necessarilyu be more dangerous...and IMHO a single shot rifle season would be safer than any other.

Ramrod · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2005, 03:28:58 AM »

The fact is, any centerfire rifle is legal in New York's rifle zones. This includes .17 Rem, .22 Hornet., and .204 Ruger.
It's in the booklet that comes with the hunting liscene.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 23, 2005, 08:28:41 AM »

IMHO a single shot rifle season would be safer than any other.
_________________
Ironglow, I'm with you on that. Thats my plan if rifle season is passed. I've hunted with a single shot pistol for over 10 years now. I'll admit it made me a better and more conciencious hunter. The point and shoot, and shooting at running deer BS comes to an end with a single shot. You better know your target and place that one shot or your going home with those little green tags. All the seasoning in the world isn't going to make them taste as good as venison jerky. Believe me I do enjoy venison jerky. :-)

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #35 on:** July 23, 2005, 12:40:28 PM »

Quote from: str8shooter48

IMHO a single shot rifle season would be safer than any other.

I can't argue with that logic...Of course I do love my H&R rifles so I may show a little favoritism towards the single shot rifle.

ironglow · « **Reply #36 on:** July 23, 2005, 01:36:10 PM »

Agreed Str8shooter...right on, same here

Ramrod, apparently I stand corrected on the rifle caliber issue...still don't think it's prudent to hunt big game with less than .25 caliber and sufficent power..
Guess I was thinking of handguns...they used to require at lest .35 caliber, but i see the rules are now any centerfire with max of 16"

Who knows about the wisdom of state lawmakers...

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 23, 2005, 03:26:47 PM »

Quote from: WNY_Whitetailer

Quote from: str8shooter48
IMHO a single shot rifle season would be safer than any other.

I can't argue with that logic...Of course I do love my H&R rifles so I may show a little favoritism towards the single shot rifle.

I feel the same way about my Encore. I'm just waiting for the official word. Then I'll put the man in the Big Brown Truck to work when I order my 308 Win. barrel , scope and all the other goodies put it all together.

WNY Whitetailer, We must be pretty close to being neighbors I seen in another thread your about 2 miles from Gander Mountain. I'm pretty close too, near Sheridan & Parker.

NONYA · « **Reply #38 on:** July 23, 2005, 07:16:40 PM »

Keep your eyes open he may be walking down your driveway with a m-16 and covered in cammo from head to toe,he may be very hard to see.....

htrjv · « **Reply #39 on:** July 24, 2005, 03:11:58 PM »

Str8shooter48 is on the right track. It isn't about allowing rifles vs shotguns! It's about safety! It's about making that first shot count, so you don't need a second shot. It's about knowing your limitations. It's about identifying your target and what's beyond it BEFORE you pull that trigger. The truth of the matter is that hunter's using rifles and handguns, do this better than hunters using shotguns. Look at the statistics. More people are killed and injured during the southern zone season, than in the northern zone, here in New York. In Pennsylvania they sought to defeat the same proposals, on the grounds that the use of rifles in populated areas was going cause more injuries and fatalities. When they did their research, surprise, surprise. They found that the injury and fatality incident rate was higher in the "shotgun only" areas. Why? Seems more shotgunners did not stop with one or two shots. The math says it all. They more lead that is flying around, the greater the chance of someone getting hit. Stop freting about what tools are used, where. Start looking inward and identify your practices. Remember, if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

ironglow · « **Reply #40 on:** July 24, 2005, 04:47:19 PM »

Str8tshooterand the rest that hunt Catt county...this leads to my next question:
Watching to see if the rifle season passes...if it does, the brown truck will find it's way from H&R to my house..

What's the best choice for deer, keeping in mind that the "bear line" has moved north also..
I have a .44 mag Shikari model, but might like to " reach out and touch" a bit farther away..

.243, 30/30, .308....or...

nomosendero · « **Reply #41 on:** July 24, 2005, 05:08:14 PM »

Gentlemen
I was just looking at this section, mainly curious about New York hunting.
I don't want to hunt in NY, just looking at what is going on in your part of the world, I do all the hunting I have time for here in Arkansas, Texas & out West. And by all means please don't think that I want to tell you how
things should be done in N.Y., believe me it angers me when out-of-staters move here & tell us how things should be.

No, I want to mention a possibility to consider. What you could do is require a short safety class about the extra range & other differences that
rifle hunters need to ingrave in their mind. Then at the end of the short
session, require a certain level of marksmanship to use that weapon. This
can be a area that they must be able to hit at 100 yards with a rest or
a slow moving target like is done in Sweden to qualify for a Moose hunt,
just a basic marksmanship test & nothing too dramatic. They don't have
to be able to shoot like Mr. Carlos Hathcock. Then they can receive a card
that they must have in their possession just like you would with a hunter safety card.
I can understand this discussion to a degree, but most kids in my part of the world start shooting shortly after they are weaned. We can use any action type here & it is not a problem, but I guess it is our culture.
Anyway, I wanted to say something because I consider hunters in any
state as a brother & we must stick together to preserve our heritage!
Thanks: Rod Smith

NONYA · « **Reply #42 on:** July 24, 2005, 05:09:02 PM »

Get urself a 7mm Rem Mag,great all around rifle for all of our big game in NA.

Qtip · « **Reply #43 on:** July 25, 2005, 01:55:29 AM »

nomosendero,

Your views are appreciated. However the amount of people that would be taking any kind of "rifle test" would be huge and too large for the state to handle prior to deer season. Also as an ex-hunter safety instructor I think NY would really screw it up. I think we should see what happens for a couple of years and go from there. My 30/30 with a low power scope doesn't have the range that some in-lines and rifle cal. handguns do so why should I have to take an extra course when they have already been using their guns? The safety topics discussed in Hunter Safety already cover these topics. Safe hunting is safe hunting regardless of weapon. My area is shotgun only until the law changes. Most use pumps and semis. Years ago when we had more land to hunt on and more hunters and deer opening day sounded like WWIII. Not so much anymore. I think lots of guys will use bolt guns so hearing five quick shots won't be happening as much as people think. We'll just have to wait and see. IMHO

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone be The Glory!

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #44 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:04:56 AM »

Ironglow...I have been looking into sending my Ultra Varmint stock, receiver and forearm back to H&R for a 7mm-08 or a 25-06 barrel.

Also, I just e-mailed the Governor regarding this bill...Check out the following link and send an e-mail off showing your interest in this bill as well.

http://www.state.ny.us/governor/

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #45 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:56:58 AM »

Here's another view on this Bill...This article was written by outdoor columnist Oak Duke:

www.wellsvilledaily.com/articles/2005/07/22/outdoors/outdoors00.txt

Forest Walker · « **Reply #46 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:10:38 AM »

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.asp?m=1132306[img]
According to this site it hasn't gotten to the Gov yet[/img]

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 25, 2005, 12:44:43 PM »

Quote from: Forest Walker

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.asp?m=1132306[img]
According to this site it hasn't gotten to the Gov yet[/img]

I was just at the site above. It was interesting but I'm going to bite my tongue and keep quiet. Don't want to ruffle any feathers on GB's

Ramrod · « **Reply #48 on:** July 25, 2005, 01:30:57 PM »

Quote from: nomosendero

Gentlemen
I was just looking at this section, mainly curious about New York hunting.
I don't want to hunt in NY, just looking at what is going on in your part of the world, I do all the hunting I have time for here in Arkansas, Texas & out West. And by all means please don't think that I want to tell you how
things should be done in N.Y., believe me it angers me when out-of-staters move here & tell us how things should be.

No, I want to mention a possibility to consider. What you could do is require a short safety class about the extra range & other differences that
rifle hunters need to ingrave in their mind. Then at the end of the short
session, require a certain level of marksmanship to use that weapon. This
can be a area that they must be able to hit at 100 yards with a rest or
a slow moving target like is done in Sweden to qualify for a Moose hunt,
just a basic marksmanship test & nothing too dramatic. They don't have
to be able to shoot like Mr. Carlos Hathcock. Then they can receive a card
that they must have in their possession just like you would with a hunter safety card.
I can understand this discussion to a degree, but most kids in my part of the world start shooting shortly after they are weaned. We can use any action type here & it is not a problem, but I guess it is our culture.
Anyway, I wanted to say something because I consider hunters in any
state as a brother & we must stick together to preserve our heritage!
Thanks: Rod Smith

Thanks, nomosendero, this is the best suggestion I have seen so far when it comes to this bill. But, it is not likley to happen in my lifetime. As I have already said, this is all about propping up sagging liscense sales, nothing more. I don't believe half of the so-called hunters out there in the shotgun only areas could meet any kind of shooting proficiancy test, so there is no incentive for the state to make one mandatory. And our governor, in his infinate wisdom, vetoed the hunter orange bill last year. So we will have rifles in the hands of many guys who have never fired one before, dressed in full camo, in the most populated areas on the east coast. Naturally, the city and town dwellers don't seem to see a problem here! :roll:

WNY_Whitetailer, thank you for having the backbone to post a link to an opposing view, instead of just cheerleading like most here. There are always two sides to a story. Alot of folks think this is a bad bill. Most just don't visit this site.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:09:19 PM »

I'm in favor the rifle season but if it was rejected I wouldn't have lost any sleep over it. What burns my A$$ how easily the early muzzleloader season was shot down.

nomosendero · « **Reply #50 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:57:44 PM »

Qtip
You have a good point that this could not be done before hunting season.
No doubt this is true, however you may be able to develop a method in
the next year or so. Hunters getting their heads together for the common
good and safety of hunters could accomplish alot!

Ramrod
Are you saying that you don't require orange! I believe in freedom when
it comes to weapons as you no doubt have seen, but orange (at least an
orange camo cap & vest) & rifles go together for obvious reasons! Some
Southern States will allow you to remove the orange once you get in your
tree or elevated stand (I do on our property only), but even on my own
private property I will not walk or stand on the ground without orange
in case of tresspassers (hasn't happened but I allow for it). I would use
a little orange whether it is the law or not.

Gentlemen, again I don't want to pry & it is not my business, so I want
to close & wish you all happy hunting!

ironglow · « **Reply #51 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:12:26 AM »

Nonsendoro;
I appreciate your imput, and don't consider you an "interloper"..sinvce hunting is a "brotherhood".

I doubt the safety course would help greatly..for the following reasons:
1) It is not as if we in NY State are unfamiliar with centerfire rifles.
We use them during summer for woodchuck (groundhog) hunting, shooting at long ranges, much like the prarie Dog hunters of the west.
Also rifle is used on varmints...Coyote etc.
2) the dispute is not whether to allow rifle hunting at all..since many, if not most counties already allow rifles for deer and bear.
3) The disputed counties do not seem to be the populous ones at least as far as I am concerned it is the southern tier( those along the border with Pennsylvania) where rifles are already used without undue accidents.

I would lioke to clarify a fact: One poster said that since the Gov. vetoed a mandatory "hunter orange" bill, we are likely to see folks deer hunting in gun season in camo.
Not hardly true..we have NEVER had a required hunter orange law...but still it is a rare sight to se anyone without some ID color on ( e.g. red, orange etc) in the woods during big game gun season.
I am pleased that the Gov vetoed that bill. While I usually wear a red jacket and an orange hat...I definitely don't want to walk around looking like a giant, glowing carrot!
Not the color that bothers so much as the GLOW!!!

If someone is silly enough to wear camo during deer gun season, he will find a way to remove himself from the gene pool even if it is not in the field....LOL
I am not worried for myself shooting some dud in camo...I always double check my target...
I would rather miss a chance at getting a deer rather than to have a chance at getting a hunter...
4) All the disputed counties already allow handgun hunting with any of the usual rounds. There are a lot of TCs and others out there firing 30/06, .308, .270 etc and I don't recall any recent "hunting accidents" with handguns ( outside of the mishandling accidents that could happen at home).

5) And perhaps the biggest reason of all:
If a safety program were initiated, that means the politicians would probably administer it....and you know what happens then ...LOL

Hunters in NY are already required to take a hunter safety course with the NRA..
If someone takes that course and pays attention, he/she should be ready to hunt safely with any firearm.

Actually, the rules are so simple...as we were told in the Army..

" Don't point your rifle at anything...unless you intend to kill it !"

Now, that's pretty simple isn't it ! If someone can't do that... they don't belong in the woods...and their friends should tell them so !!!

woodsdweller · « **Reply #52 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:07:56 PM »

i think it is about time. i hunt in the southern zone now and in rifle area. but on the other side of 990v is shotgun. there is no differance in terain housing or anything else. we need to have a stricter hunters safty course my son 9 could pass the present one. we need to teach our children how to handle a fire arm eariler than 12. teach them what it can do.
people try to take game too far with a shot gun now. lets face it guys most of our shots are less than 100 yrds. now. but if a further shot was there it would be nice to see someone with a flatter shooting rifle and take a good solid shot in stead of a hailmary. as for road hunters they will always be there. we have some old timers here now who road hunt these men cant walk any more and they love venison as much as we do. leave them alone. we will all be there some day.
i say sign it been hunting with a rifle for 20 years on one side of the road be nice to see the other side. never mind saying 25 cal or bigger. know of a few freezers that could tell you how well a 243 ,6mm, 22-250 and the tripple duce can do to keep them stocked every season.

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #53 on:** July 27, 2005, 08:39:11 AM »

Here's another article that shows hunters that are against this bill...Of course this newpaper is probably not interested in the hunters that are in favor of the bill.

http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2005/07/27/hunt2.html

According to this article, this bill has yet to even make it to Governor Pataki's desk.

Ramrod · « **Reply #54 on:** July 27, 2005, 01:44:47 PM »

Quote from: WNY_Whitetailer

...Of course this newpaper is probably not interested in the hunters that are in favor of the bill.

You got that right. The "Star" is a local Otsego county paper with a large rural readership. They probably don't give a crap about what the "city hunters" think.

Lee · « **Reply #55 on:** August 11, 2005, 04:45:30 AM »

Patacki is too busy to sign this bill concerning rifle use

He is working hard to find the one who may have ruined his presidential ambitions. He wants to put a parole officer in jail instead of parole violaters.

ALBANY -- State parole officials have launched an internal investigation to learn who leaked information about an alleged warrant quota system that parole officers say prevents them from putting dangerous felons back in prison.

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #56 on:** August 11, 2005, 07:17:17 AM »

He needs to take care of the "important" stuff first doncha know... :roll:

Qtip · « **Reply #57 on:** August 11, 2005, 11:17:16 AM »

WNY Whitetailer,

Yup. The good ole' Daily Rag as I call it. Totally liberal. But what do you expect from a small city with two liberal colleges and the "debris" that comes with it. In it's own little liberal world like a lot of it's local politicians too. Did you notice that the editor in his column cited the fact that bullets from rifles travel further than "pellets" from shotguns? This clown doesn't even know that "pellets" as he puts it; aren't legal for deer! But then again the editor runs his mouth about a ton of things he has no knowledge of. That paper is no less than a joke. Shame is it's our only daily paper locally. If Orange County can use rifles with a higher population than Otsego with about the same accident rate I can't see the problem other than politics.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!
To God Alone Be The Glory!

Ramrod · « **Reply #58 on:** August 11, 2005, 05:25:34 PM »

Well here we are, just a bit more than 3 months till the Southern zone opener, and still no rifles. Just think, if Pataki were to sign this bill next week, all the weekend warriors could be out on opening day with brand spanking new rifles! Some of them might have actually got their scopes mounted properly, (doubtfull, this is the gunsmiths buissiest season), and some of them might actually get to practice with them, (doubtfull again, most will bitch about the high cost of ammo for their new Short Magnum Super Wonder), and some will just take the thing out of the box and go hunting. It happens alot more than you want to admit. I don't hate the governor, but I hope he breaks his arm, and can't sign anything for about 4 months. I would like to see the average Bozo have at least a year to learn a thing or two about centerfire rifles before he trades in his shotgun.
If I had a bulldozer I would be pushing a big berm all the way around my house right about now.

Qtip · « **Reply #59 on:** August 13, 2005, 02:02:29 AM »

Ramrod,

You almost seem to make it sound like most folks from shotgun only areas are dummies when it comes to their use and knowledge of centerfire rifles. Most of the guys I've hunted deer with over the years own centerfires, have hunted with them, shoot them in off-seasons at the range and use them for woodchucks. But you make it seem like they have never handled one. Sure you will get your last-minute beginners, but that happens with shotguns too and I've seen it. An unsafe hunter is an unsafe hunter period. Choice of weapon has nothing to do with it.

Qtip
Soli Deo Gloria!