Author Topic: Please Help (Read 817 times)

Bulldog · « **on:** July 14, 2005, 05:04:30 PM »

I have just loaded my first box of ammo. I first used a dummy shell to find out what seating depth to use. The shell went into the chamber and the bolt closed easily. I then loaded a box at that same length and the bolt is hard to close. I was wanting to know what caused this to happen and is it alright to shoot the loads when the bolt is hard to close. I believe that the bullet is seated deep enough since the dummy shell goes in with ease. I am loading for a savage 22-250 using rem. brass and 55 gr. v-max's.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:26:42 PM »

Why don't you try reseating one or two just a little deeper. Adjust the seating die a little deeper and run the finished sheel thru. Then see if the bolt closes.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2005, 05:42:02 PM »

Are you using a compressed powder charge?

Bulldog · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2005, 06:08:58 PM »

I have tried seating the bullet deeper and it is still hard to close. I am using 36.5 gr of varget.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2005, 10:57:37 PM »

Well, you are definately running a compressed load. And, I figure your pressures are up around 67,000 PSI.

If you insist on staying there (ther are much better powders to maintain that velocity you are getting without that high a pressure), then I would suggest that you put a mild taper crimp on the case to keep the powder from pushing the bullet out.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2005, 12:29:10 AM »

Quote from: ricciardelli

Well, you are definately running a compressed load. And, I figure your pressures are up around 67,000 PSI.

If you insist on staying there (ther are much better powders to maintain that velocity you are getting without that high a pressure), then I would suggest that you put a mild taper crimp on the case to keep the powder from pushing the bullet out.

I have to agree with ricciardelli. You will have to change your load.

roper · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2005, 03:07:48 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

Quote from: ricciardelli
Well, you are definately running a compressed load. And, I figure your pressures are up around 67,000 PSI.

If you insist on staying there (ther are much better powders to maintain that velocity you are getting without that high a pressure), then I would suggest that you put a mild taper crimp on the case to keep the powder from pushing the bullet out.

I have to agree with ricciardelli. You will have to change your load.

On Varget label is a load of 36.5/Varget with a 55gr bullet and in my cases that is not a compressed load. They also list a 39.5/Varget and a 40gr bullet and that would be a compressed load. These are max loads and found in most reloading manuals also. Noslers manual list a max of 35gr/Varget with a 83% load density. I hate to say this but think you experts need to do alittle more checking on your data.

ricciardelli · « **Reply #7 on:** July 15, 2005, 05:35:20 AM »

"...you experts need to do alittle more checking on your data..."
Roper...

I'll bet you even believe that if it is on TV or in the newspaper it must also be true.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #8 on:** July 15, 2005, 06:19:46 AM »

Take one of your resized cases, before charging it, and see if it chambers easily. Then take one of your finished cartridges, that is hard to chamber, and blacken the bullet with a magic marker and chamber it. See if there aren't bright little marks where the bullet is intruding into the lands. Or, you may be bulging the case walls when you compress the load. Compressing a spirical powder is not a good idea.
There is nothing wrong with the bullet touching the lands but to go there you have to lower your powder charge and kinda know what you're doing and what to look for.
Switching to H380 might cure your problems.

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2005, 08:14:26 AM »

Did you measure and trim (if needed) the cases before you loaded them?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2005, 08:36:04 AM »

Quote from: roper

Quote from: Redhawk1
Quote from: ricciardelli
Well, you are definately running a compressed load. And, I figure your pressures are up around 67,000 PSI.

If you insist on staying there (ther are much better powders to maintain that velocity you are getting without that high a pressure), then I would suggest that you put a mild taper crimp on the case to keep the powder from pushing the bullet out.

I have to agree with ricciardelli. You will have to change your load.

On Varget label is a load of 36.5/Varget with a 55gr bullet and in my cases that is not a compressed load. They also list a 39.5/Varget and a 40gr bullet and that would be a compressed load. These are max loads and found in most reloading manuals also. Noslers manual list a max of 35gr/Varget with a 83% load density. I hate to say this but think you experts need to do alittle more checking on your data.

Roper don't start with your attitude here, no one was claiming to be an expert. You want to make a comment then that is fine, but keep it on a friendly level. No need for your sarcasm.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2005, 09:13:08 AM »

Bulldog, what a lot of us reloaders have found is that case capacity is different between brands. I load my 45-70 with black powder and found that Winchester brand brass has more capacity than Remington brass. It is all in case construction, some cases have thicker walls with means less room for powder. Even thought a book does not list it as a compressed load, it could be.

Also my 416 Rigby I load for, list the starting charge at 106.0 gr. of Reloader22 and a max of 110 gr. But the 106 gr. in my cases with the barnes bullets, the bullets are sitting right on the powder.

So the conclusion, just because it is not "listed" as a compressed charge, it very well may be compressed.

roper · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2005, 11:04:03 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

Quote from: roper
Quote from: Redhawk1
Quote from: ricciardelli
Well, you are definately running a compressed load. And, I figure your pressures are up around 67,000 PSI.

If you insist on staying there (ther are much better powders to maintain that velocity you are getting without that high a pressure), then I would suggest that you put a mild taper crimp on the case to keep the powder from pushing the bullet out.

I have to agree with ricciardelli. You will have to change your load.

On Varget label is a load of 36.5/Varget with a 55gr bullet and in my cases that is not a compressed load. They also list a 39.5/Varget and a 40gr bullet and that would be a compressed load. These are max loads and found in most reloading manuals also. Noslers manual list a max of 35gr/Varget with a 83% load density. I hate to say this but think you experts need to do alittle more checking on your data.

Roper don't start with your attitude here, no one was claiming to be an expert. You want to make a comment then that is fine, but keep it on a friendly level. No need for your sarcasm.

I have very little knowledge on big bores and if I made a whatever statement and it was wrong and I was corrected I'd just figured I'd learn something and again considering you are a moderator your word means something and if I posted something and you answered I'd take your word more than another poster so to me your are and expert. I've learned in 40yrs of reloading and right now I load for appr 50 rifles I don't comment on something I have tried first or shot or reloaded and like I said in my cases a load of 36.5/Varget is not a compressed load. Since you have an issue with me on another site I think your dislike shows with your comments. If Graybeard figures my comment are out of line I'll just quit this site plain and simple. I'll send him a PM to review my comments.

jerkface11 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2005, 11:49:00 AM »

Roper did you measure the ones that are hard to close to see if they are the same length as the dummy?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 15, 2005, 12:10:09 PM »

Quote from: jerkface11

Roper did you measure the ones that are hard to close to see if they are the same length as the dummy?

It is Bulldog with the problem.

I think you wanted to ask him.

Bulldog · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2005, 12:18:15 PM »

I did measure the cases before I loaded them and they were okay. Afterward the loaded cases were the same lengeth as the dummy. I will try to load a few with less powder to see if the problem is solved. I also wondered if maybe the bullet is not being seated straight. Thanks for everyone's info.

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2005, 12:26:13 PM »

Since you are using a Hornady bullet I'd pay a bit more attention to Hornady's load data which says about two grains less is max using their bullet. Now I realize you are using a different lot of Varget than they did and likely a different brand of case and primer. But those things can just as easily go against you than in your favor pressure wise.

When a bullet manufacture tells me my load is two grains too hot I'd listen and back off. Unless the powder maker's data lists the specific bullet you are using and same case brand I'd not assume I could use the same powder charge recommended especially when the bullet maker says otherwise. The plastic tipped bullets often have lower max charges than non plastic tipped bullets due to a longer bullet length for weight.

What I've more often found was causing such hard to close bolt situations is that either the cases are too long or you've got your seater die set for a shorter case length. With experience you can tell this by feel when seating the bullet. But when it happens it crimps the case a bit and makes it fatter and harder to seat in the chamber.

Any time a case without bullet chambers easily and a loaded round doesn't this is the first thing I suspect.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2005, 12:39:47 PM »

Graybeard, that is why I have so many reloading books. :-D All 55 gr. bullets have different lengths, which can cause problems with suggested loads from other books. One good practice is to start at the bottom of the load and work your way up. If you encounter problems you can go back to the last place you left off.

Bulldog, let us know how you make out.

Bulldog · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2005, 09:33:10 AM »

I loaded one with 35.5 gr and still it still didn't load easily. Then went down to 34.6 and it chambered easily. I loaded a couple more and they too chambered easily. I went and shot these three rounds and the first two made one hole and the other hit a half inch to the right. I came back home and loaded a three more. The third one for some reason was somewhat hard to close. I am new to reloading and appreciate everyone's help and I learn new things just from reading this forum.

dozer · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2005, 10:12:48 AM »

One thing not mentioned, check the primer to make sure it is seated flush. Had some bad cases once and that happened to me when the primer didn't go in far enough. DO NOT try to reseat a primer on a loaded round.
Doz

jerkface11 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2005, 12:01:03 PM »

Bulldog maybe you buckled the shoulder when you seated the bullet that would do it.

roper · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2005, 02:36:02 PM »

Bulldog, Chafer the inside of the case also the outside then seat the bullet take some fine steel wool and shine the case and bullet do that with say a 36.5/Varget load and you should see some marks somewhere. The case I use are Win,fed primers and 55gr nosler BT in 22-250. Are these all new cases? Are you sizing them before loading? Have you tried just putting an empty case in the chamber and closing the bolt? On my new cases I have from Sinclair a expander die/mandrel kind of takes the dents out and moves the thick spots from the inside of the neck to the outside. On those cases that are easy to chamber have you check the neck thickness and see what it is and compare the ones hard to chamber? How are you dumping your powder into the case fast sometimes will cause alot more air between powder and slower will allow the powder to stack better and can get alittle better powder burn. Different type funnels will stack powder differently. And as Dozer said may be the primers. Bullet ogives will vary best to get something to measure them with and they do vary bullet to bullet same brand same box.