9x23 Winchester

[while99]

What advantages, if any, does the 9x23 Winchester have over the older 9mm Winchester magnum, or the .356 TSW, or the .357 SIG?

[Mikey]

while99 - Hmmm, interesting comparison here.  The 9x23 is really a rimless 38 Super in a long (23mm) 9mm case that takes a 124 gn bullet at 1425'/sec, the same level we used to load our 38 Supers to and the same level as the original 38 Super loadings.  The 38 Super and 9x23 run interchangeably in all the 38 Supers I have shot recently and a lot of 38 Super shooters use the rimless 9x23 brass for their loads.  There are a number of handguns chambered for this round (38 Super/9x23) most notably the 1911 platform and I believe Sig also chambers one of their models in the 38 Super as does Tangfolio, I believe.  You will find more pistols chambered for the 38 Super than the 9x23, I'm sure.  

The 9x23 ballistics are the equal to the 357 magnums famed one-shot fight stopper with a 125 gn bullet at 1425'/sec.  The 357 Sig also mirrors those ballistics but has the added reliability benefit of being a bottlenecked cartridge that may feed hollowpoints and flatpoints more reliably.  The 9x23 and the 357 Sig are ballistic equals.  

The 9mm magnum is about 25mm long and needs its own platform to function a semi auto reliably.  About the longest case the 1911 platform can handle reliably is 23mm.  After that you really have to deep seat your bullets and that costs you ballistically.  Paris Theodore, late of Seventrees Holsters, found that out when he reworked and chambered a S&W Model 39 for the 38 Super.  He had to deep seat the bullets to get reliable functioning and the loads were no better than the 9mms.  I don't know if anyone still makes a handgun chambered for the 9mm Magnum, but there must be.  If I recall, the last one I saw was a pretty hefty package, a Wildey maybe?

The 356TSW is a bit of a specialty cartridge and I would prefer and recommend a caliber with 'on the shelf availablity'.  That leaves you with the 38 Super/9x23 as the most likely candidate for availability, the 357 Sig next.  I doubt you will find the 9mm magnum or the 356TSW on most anybody's shelves.  

Since your intent is self defense and concealed carry my recommendation would be for the 38 Super/9x23 in a 1911 lightweight Commander sized package or the same in the Sig line, but based only on the probable availability of 357 Sig ammo.  Otherwise I will definately recommend one of the Sig line of pistols in the 357 Sig caliber.  I am a big fan of bottlenecked cartridges and the 357 Sig is right there.  Dang, now ya got me thinkin' I might need a new gun............. HTH.  Mikey.

[yuppie]

It busts up the guns too quickly, if you use full charge ammo. The round is as long as the 460 Rowland, so why settle for having 1/2- 2/3rds of the power that you could have?

[Mikey]

yuppie - the 9x23 in a Tokarev or CZ52 would bust up the gun with full charge ammo.  The 9x23 is loaded to hotter pressures than the 38 Super - factory 38 Supers, which are fine defensive loads and don't cause my Tok any problems but the 9x23s are too hot.

If you are comparing a 9x23 to a 460, you are correct on size and power capacities but I'm not quite square yet on which round busts up guns more - the 9x23 is as workable on a properly setup 1911 platform as is the 10mm, but with less recoil.  I don't know if I would care to try the 460 though, that one is really hot.

38 Super loading data has, for a long number of years, listed loads that provide power levels of exactly what the 9x23 and the 357 Sig provide, but those are 38 Super reloads.  Many of the custom pistol shooters have loaded the 38 Super very hot for competetion - I see the 9x23 as simply a rimless version (slight dimentional differences twixt the tapered 9mmx23mm case and the straightwalled 38 Super) - I have shot and will continue to use that cartridge and case in my 38 Supers without problem, but won't use the 9x23 in my Tok.  Mikey.

[yuppie]

is 135 grs at 1700 fps in a 5".  That's a good 150 fps too much velocity-recoil, and I'd bring it down to 1450 fps in an alloy or polymer framed  4" model.  It would still be more effective than the highly touted, 125 gr 357, which is also  1450 fps in a 4" barrel.