Author Topic: revolver hunting  (Read 1593 times)

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Offline pistolero

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revolver hunting
« on: February 21, 2003, 05:26:10 PM »
:(  :?  :oops:  :?

They way I feel now is like you see in the above cartoons.

I have asked you guys before about hunting  with  my walker loaded for effectiveness (45 grs).  Since I have contacted you, I have been looking at several opinions, reading various forums  and am realy confused and gettng a bit  upset.

One of the forums said that the .44 pistol repro is nothing but a wall hanger and a plinker at best, Then some others have said that it is near to a .45 ACP... Well, Now where do I stand.?  Do have a nice conversational wall hanger, a target shooter or  do I have a serviceable firearm
to bring down a deer size , edible,  table prize??????

 I realize that if I am effective, I must "lie in wait" for a close shot and  only one.  Perhaps, get one try...So be it,,,, isn't what is is all about?
Feeling the challenge  and the adventure of using an " ancient weapon"???

You know that deer may be called in by antler rattling and waiting....

Besides that, I'm getting too old  to drag a carcass too far.
---65 Years.... I guess that I am entering my second , rambunctious,  and being silly childhood.

I know that I must check out state laws first...

My question  over all  is my colt walker a  "pop gun or serviceable cannon"?

thanks for letting me sout a few feelings.... Now I feel better (:

Pistolero      thanks, guys

Offline Gatofeo

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revolver hunting
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2003, 07:03:16 PM »
Elmer Keith once wrote of an old gent he knew who was among those who killed the last of the grizzlies in California.
He did it with a Colt Dragoon, according to Keith. No mention of load but Keith said the gentleman waited in a tree and shot the grizzly in the back of the head with the Dragoon.
I suspect he must have baited the bear somehow.
Does that mean you should go after grizzly with your Walker? Hell no! Not unless you want to be some grizzly's dinner.
The Lyman Black Powder Handbook (copyright 2001) lists up to 45 grs. of Pyrodex P (not actual grain weight, but equivalent to the volume occupied by 45 grs. of FFFG black powder) under a 140 gr., .454-inch ball.
This gets 1,038 feet per second (fps) at the muzzle for 335 foot pounds of muzzle energy.  At 25 yards, that ball is down to 958 fps, for 286 foot pounds of energy.
Now, that's a rather piddling load by today's standards.
But with an ideal shot, at no more than 25 yards, I should think it would take a deer if you placed the bullet in the right place (head or neck).
I don't actually know that but I do know that millions of deer have been taken with far less.
I knew an old gent in northern Idaho who took deer with a .30 Carbine every year. He limited his shots to no more than about 50 yards and always hit them in the neck or head.
He waited in a tree, overlooking a game trail, and if he didn't get the ideal shot he simply didn't take it.
That man had discipline, extraordinaire.
You should be asking yourself, "Do I have the discipline to pass by shots that are not ideal? Do I have the discipline to practice with my Walker until I can put every shot into a 5" inch circle, offhand, at 25 yards?"
Therein lies the rub.
Using the right caliber is part of it. But much of it is the integrity to pass shots by that might result in wounding or loss game, and to dilligently practice.
Yes, the Walker will take deer. But bear in mind that it generates about the same or less energy as the .45 Auto, 230 gr. roundnosed lead bullet.
However, soft lead balls tend to flatten when encountering resistance. For this reason, they tend to offer "killing power" all out of proportion to the size and weight, and outside the realm of mathematical formulas.
A case in point is the .36 Colt Navy, which had a fiersome reputation as a mankiller. But looking at that little lead 80 gr. ball, you wouldn't know it.
Yes, you can use some kind of conical bullet in your Walker but it's at the expense of powder, and that lowers your velocity.
Also, in my experience, conical bullets lack the accuracy of the round ball.
Whoever said the Walker repro is a wall-hanger is wrong. It can be a powerful handgun, if well-made. Trouble is, there are some poorly made repros out there and some damned fine ones. I don't know what you have. If you can get it to put all six balls into a 3 or 4 inch circle at 25 yards from a benchrest, you have a good one.
The Walker, like all Colt percussion guns, is hampered by its rather crude sights. A brass bead up front and a notch in the hammer for a rear sight. Neither are adjustable.
And every Colt, old and new, shoots high. Some as much as 12 inches high at 25 yards with a full load. To counteract this, you have to add a taller front sight and/or file the sighting notch in the hammer slightly deeper.
Getting a Colt percussion to shoot to point of aim is a challenging task but can be done.
Once done, a well-made percussion pistol can amaze you with its accuracy.
But you have to work at finding an accurate load.
You've got a big task ahead of you. But if you spend this spring and summer at finding an accurate load, then practice with it, you could take a deer with a neck or head-shot from 25 yards with that Walker.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline simonkenton

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revolver hunting
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2003, 02:56:08 AM »
A very interesting subject. I just was talking to an old acquaintance from work the other day, Butch. I hadn't talked to him in two years. I asked if he had done any hunting lately. He said he got 6 deer this season. I gathered pretty quickly that Butch is a sloppy hunter, he said it took two shots at close range to hit a deer with shotgun slugs. He said he shot one with a .44 Colt Army. He said at the range he used 30 grains of powder but for hunting he put 40 grains in there. He took a broadside shot at 10 yards and missed completely!  He figured the 40 grain load must be throwing the ball high. This meant that Butch had not practiced with his hunting load. Right away, I crossed Butch off the list of people I would go hunting with. But this deer ran off to 30 yards and stood broadside. Butch aimed 3 inches below the chest and fired. The deer collapsed, dead from a broken spine. The gun was 2 feet high at 30 yards, because he was trying for a lung shot.
 This illustrates that the cap and ball does have the power to kill the deer, but the only person I know who admits to hunting with them is an irresponsible hunter. I believe that on a 25 yard or less lung shot, on medium to small deer, the .44 would be a good deer killer. You only have to go through 3/4 inch of muscle, or a rib, and you are into the lungs. Lung tissue is like whipped Jello, it isn't going to be much of an obstruction. I believe you could get a through and through lung shot with one of these guns. Like Gatofeo says, they were proven mankillers in the Civil War.
 Gatofeo is right, though, you have to get real good with the gun and be very patient for a broadside shot on a modest size deer at close range. If you took a quartering shot and tried to go through the shoulder, very bad deal.
 Go below and read Gatofeo's post on "Found. Original loads for cap and ball." Included in this post are interviews with Civil War cavalry troops who used these pistols extensively in combat. History proves that these pistols are anything but "wall hangers", and that if used properly they are potent mankillers indeed, especially with the round ball.
Aim small don't miss.

Offline The Shrink

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revolver hunting
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2003, 02:24:33 PM »
Pistolero

You have two very thoughtful, informative, and accurate posts above mine.  I only have one thing to add - as you said, check your laws before you go into the deer woods with the Walker only.  Most states post minimum power or caliber or something similar, and I doubt that the Walker or the 45 ACP would be found acceptable.
Wayne the Shrink

There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

Offline simonkenton

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revolver hunting
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2003, 02:37:39 PM »
Hey Shrink, thanks for the tip on diluting the tung oil. It works great. I am using the 70% tung oil mixture now, I am on the 9th coat total, it is working very well. Why don't they say that on the bottle. I threw away two bottles of tung oil. Anyway, I may be redoing a polyurethaned rifle stock and this is the technique I will use.
Aim small don't miss.

Offline The Shrink

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revolver hunting
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2003, 06:36:33 AM »
Simon

You're past the worst potential problems now.  Your only decision left is how shiny you want it.  Remember, if you get it too shimy, you can dull it back with steel wool or about a 300 grit wet/dry paper.
Wayne the Shrink

There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

Offline Gatofeo

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revolver hunting
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2003, 08:53:15 AM »
I'm soooooo confused!
How did we leap from cap and ball revolvers for hunting to tongue oil?
Let's say he does get a deer with his cap and ball revolver.
How do you extract the oil from its tongue? Boil it? Press it out? Ewwwwwwwwwwwww
Deer tongue oil is a good stock refinisher?
Sheesh ... new one on me!
I dunno ... I've heard of putting your cheek against the stock but dunno if I'd want to be smooched by proxy with a deer tongue!
Double ewwwwwwwwwww!
<The confused ol' desert cat wanders off to the bathroom in search of his Reality Pills ... >
 :wink:
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline The Shrink

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revolver hunting
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2003, 01:20:21 AM »
Hey Gatofeo, you're dealing with a psychologist here, remember?  Crazyness seems to be attracted to us!  Reality is what you make of it??

Actually, I'm not sure why Simon dropped that one here, I wouldn't even use the stuff on a tanned deer hide!  I want those soft.
Wayne the Shrink

There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

Offline 1860

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revolver hunting
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2003, 02:11:53 PM »
If you can bow hunt and shoot your revolver well, you can hunt deer with it, as long as it's a .44, loaded well and it's legal.  Good  Bow hunters get close, choose their shots, and make their shots.   30 yards and under, a .44 Rem or Colt has enough power to kill a deer pretty well as long as the shot is placed in the lungs.  They sure killed alot of people.

Practice is the key, lot's of it, just as a good archer does alot of shooting.  If your gun shoots them well, the Buffalow ballets work well on deer, at close range through the ribs, they pass through.  Use all the powder you can, skip the wads and filler, just grease the cylinders well.  It's not for everyone, takes dedication and again, lots of practice, but it works.  Nothing worse than haveing one run off wounded.

1860

Offline HWooldridge

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revolver hunting
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2003, 05:06:19 AM »
Several years ago, I killed a deer at about 10 yds with an 1858 Remington loaded with round ball.  It shot several inches high but gave good groups.  I was sitting in a ground blind when a buck walked past the right side opening.  I could not get my long caplock rifle around to that side so just stuck the pistol out the window and aimed at his neck.  The ball hit him at the base of the skull and came out the right eye - that was the end.  I would be quite comfortable using a cap & ball out to hunt deer out 30 yds. or so but would probably stick to a .44.