Author Topic: Caliber for young hunter (Read 2066 times)

missed_shot · « **on:** July 18, 2005, 02:52:11 AM »

I am taking my grandson hunting this fall. He is 13 and not very big. What caliber in a handi would be best for him?. Consider recoil and bullet effectiveness. I don't want something that has to be perfectly placed to do it's job like a .223. I also know a bad hit is a bad hit even from a magnum.

Wlscott · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2005, 03:28:51 AM »

I bought my 12 year old daughter a Handi Rifle in 7MM-08 Rem last year.

I load a 120 grain bullet for it. It's a very accurate gun, with little recoil. She shoots it just fine.

She was able to use it to take her first bob cat last year (No deer though).

Varminter · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2005, 03:43:37 AM »

How experienced is grandson with firearms? Is this first season hunting? How far will he be shooting?

If he's going to be shooting under 100 yards the 44 mag is all you need.
The 30-30 would be another fine cartridge.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2005, 04:17:21 AM »

Good advice both ways. 7-08 if you are a handloader; .30-30 if you are not.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2005, 05:21:05 AM »

I don't have first hand experiance with these...but aren't there some reduced loads on the market in the larger calibers like 308...270...30-06...that are made just for this application that would work great...and allow the youngster to grow into the full house loads when suitable?

Mac

Stan in SC · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2005, 05:25:24 AM »

My experience with my grandsons is that young shooters seem to be very sensitive to recoil.Unpleasant recoil can quickly sour the experience for the youngsters.
The 30/30 would be an excellent choice as well as the .243.The nice thing about Handi rifles is that you can always buy another barrel when they "grow into" the present one in experience and size.

Stan

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2005, 05:51:00 AM »

Here's a recoil chart to help you decide...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

From another source at AR, the 7mm-08 shooting 120gr loads in an 8lb rifle, has 9.9ft/lbs recoil for comparison. That chart won't display.

Tim

Muddy05 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:09:22 AM »

.30-30 under 100 yards, or 7mm-08 for longer shots. I like 120 gr remington hollow points for the 7mm-08.

Longcruise · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:16:30 AM »

Quote

I am taking my grandson hunting this fall. He is 13 and not very big. What caliber in a handi would be best for him?.

Will he be hunting deer or Brown Bears? :twisted:

myarmor · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:21:53 AM »

357, 44Mag, 243, 30-30, 7mm-08, .....take your pick. All them have strengths and weeknesses depending on how far you are going to take a shot.

missed_shot · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:22:19 AM »

This is for whitetails. How does the 7mm-08 compare to the 30/30 ? I do reload. I was thinking between the 30/30 and .243. My thoughts were the 30/30 had more knock down power. The 7mm-08 now interests me.

myarmor · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:28:59 AM »

I hear a lot of good things about the 7mm-08. Yet I don't have one myself. Couldn't you just load them down? In that case you could get a 270 or 30-06 and do the same. Like Mac said you could work them into a big caliber slowly with light recoil.

Varminter · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:46:14 AM »

It seems the 44 mag is always over looked as a hunting catridge when it comes to these rifles. Sure is sad. My 44 mag is great. It's all i hunted with last season.(deer and hogs) And ammo is relatively cheap to get alot of practice in before season comes. and you can reload some hot 44 mags to hunt with and they would kick no more than a 7mm-08.

If this is his first hunting season i would limit his shots to 100 yards.

The 44 mag is all you need. and in the future if you want something alittle hotter ream it 445 supermag.

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2005, 06:55:42 AM »

I am in the same boat but my son is younger but likes to shoot. In the process of down loading a 30-30 with 125 's to the lowest load from hodgdon's manual. working up to his tolerance & then crony them to see if they will be effective or not. Also going to do the same for the 7-08. Hopefully have time for this be fore the season starts, too many pokers in the fire

Longcruise · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2005, 07:00:35 AM »

Quote

This is for whitetails. How does the 7mm-08 compare to the 30/30 ?

The 7-08 is a whole different class of rifle. I own one and would not hesitate to use it on game up to elk size and indeed may do just that this year.

There are plenty of load components available for this caliber and you should be able to find a light and effective bullet that can be downloaded a bit for deer. Nice thing about the 7-08 is as he grows he will have a rifle that is usefull across a wide range of uses. Same could be said for the 270, 280 and '06 as well as the .308 though.

7-08 with a well constructed (not varmint) bullet at 120 to 130 grains and propelled at 2500 fps or faster depending on recoil results will do it all. The day may come when he chooses to load up some 160 grain partitions for much larger game and it will work then too.

So, I vote 7-08 :grin:

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #15 on:** July 18, 2005, 07:17:57 AM »

The 7-08 is a twin of the 7mm Mauser that is easily loaded down to .30-30 levels. Big advantage is that it can be loaded up as the young shooter grows in size and experience. Hodgdon's has youth load data for it. There is/was a 120 grain FN bullet that would be ideal for deer at about 2400 fps. That's a pussycat load as far as recoil is concerned.

My belief is that new shooters are far less affected by recoil than by noise. Far too many people still do not use ear protection, and even one or two unprotected shots can put someone off shooting for life.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 18, 2005, 07:25:15 AM »

Here's a link to Hodgdon's youth data that LODJ mentioned....

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php

Tim

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #17 on:** July 18, 2005, 07:30:44 AM »

I would recomend the 44 mag.also. Then as his skills improve ream it to 445 super mag. and reload for it. The 44 mag is going to leave a larger entry hole and maybe a little more knockdown power. If you ream it to 445 s.m. you may take it away from him,since you can still shoot 44 mag and 44 spl's in it. Digger

bajabill · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2005, 07:48:18 AM »

since you reload, you can make a 308 or 30-06 perform like a 30-30, but you cant make a 30-30 perform like the others. You would probably want all a 243 can give.

I would get a cartridge that is enough for the bigger boys, and load it down for the younger hunter. A 30-06 pushing 130gr bullets at about 2900 fps is noticably less recoil than the factory offerings. And Hodgdon has listed loads that are supposed to be 30-30 duplicates for a 30-06 with 150s. Look at the H4895 data. Im sure the same exists for the 308 and 7-08.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2005, 08:02:48 AM »

Here...go look at these links for the Managed Recoil loads by Chuck Hawks

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_managed_recoil.htm

And here is another article on them...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_7_50/ai_n6038091

While this is just my humble opinion...it would seem to me...that either the 270 or the 30-06 would be a great rifle for the youngster...and with these new loads available...gives you the oppourtunity to buy him a grown-ups rifle that you can shoot as well with full house loads...to me this would be something for a grandson to shoot a rifle just like Grand Dads...but without all the pain normally associated with it... :grin:

Mac

Sourdough · « **Reply #20 on:** July 18, 2005, 08:11:21 AM »

My son was also small for his age. I started him hunting with a .243 Handi. It was enough gun for him to kill a Caribou at 150 yards. Today at 16 he has a 30-06, and 45-70 barrel for that gun. He still carries that .243 during the winter for shooting Wolves and Cayotes. When we go to Tennessee and Texas to hunt he carries that barrel, along with the 30-06 for hunting deer and pigs.

You can't go wrong with a .243 unless your state has a minimum caliber requirement larger than that. Recoil is light, and future use can be high.

myarmor · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2005, 08:41:03 AM »

Ever thought of a 270 UltraComp barrel? :grin: 270 with a muzzle break-very light recoil, and then you could load down even more if it still kicked too much.
A few new members have already sent their recievers to get fitted for one. There aren't many left at the factory.

Norseman112 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2005, 10:13:11 AM »

I started one of my sons out with a .243 and it worked great. Then when he got older he wanted a bigger rifle and he got one ( thats another story)
Anyway looking back perhaps the 7mm-08 would of been a good starter rifle and may have stoped him from wanting a bigger rifle.

Norse.

missed_shot · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2005, 01:48:39 PM »

I do have a handi in 30/06. Thanks for the reduced load data. I'll give those loads a try before purchasing a new barrel. You guys are on the ball as usual . thanks for the info.

JPH45 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2005, 04:06:28 PM »

Can I be the odd ball and reccomend the 280 Remington? It can be loaded down to 7-30 Waters level (just like the 7-08) and can be loaded with heavier bullets for the day you take the young fella elk huntin'

On a more serious note, I think the 44 would do ya proud, and I can attest that a 265 grain bullet at a sedate 1300 fps is murderous on deer and gentle to the shoulder and not so loud as to be disrupting to learning. It is a far more decent learner than the 30-30, but rest assured, he wouldn't be the first in the field at 13 with a 30-30.

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #25 on:** July 19, 2005, 03:34:39 AM »

7mm-08 is a good choice...Not too many factory rounds available...30-30 has a plethora of factory round choices.

FirstFreedom · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2005, 04:33:16 AM »

.357 mag (rifle)
.44 mag (rifle)
.30-30 win
7mm-30 waters
.35 rem
7.62x39mm
.243 win

Any will work well with a good heart or double lung hit.

(please don't use .223 on deer unless you're using well-constructed 70-90 gr soft point bullets, and even then it's not such a grand idea).

glock29 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 20, 2005, 07:26:52 AM »

I'll reccommend the same thing I say to ALL Handi-Owners
A 45-70 with Ruger/Level 3 handloads.
Yes the, recoil is severe but it WILL drop anything in North America, plus it lets the shooter know he touched off something WORTHWHILE.

Varminter · « **Reply #28 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:31:41 AM »

Unless you plan on paying the kids hospital bill i'd suggest you recommend something alittle better for a young shooter.

Wlscott · « **Reply #29 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:36:00 AM »

Quote from: glock29

I'll reccommend the same thing I say to ALL Handi-Owners
A 45-70 with Ruger/Level 3 handloads.
Yes the, recoil is severe but it WILL drop anything in North America, plus it lets the shooter know he touched off something WORTHWHILE.

For a 13 year old kid whose just starting to shoot!!?? :eek:

You're kidding right?