Author Topic: Caliber for young hunter (Read 2067 times)

missed_shot · « **Reply #30 on:** July 20, 2005, 09:12:37 AM »

Glock - with a reply like that for a young hunter tells me you NEVER trained a gun dog :wink:

mitchell · « **Reply #31 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:22:18 AM »

Quote from: glock29

I'll reccommend the same thing I say to ALL Handi-Owners
A 45-70 with Ruger/Level 3 handloads.
Yes the, recoil is severe but it WILL drop anything in North America, plus it lets the shooter know he touched off something WORTHWHILE.

ouch glad your not my dad. i'm 18 170lbs and a construction worker and i don't like the recoil of my 45-70 with level 2 loads .

my vote would be 243 i've not had one in a handi yet (but one's on the way thanks mac) but the one's i have had in bolt haven't kicked at all and we almost always use 100 grain bullets and they killed deer well and at ranges father then 100 yards too.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:49:45 PM »

Quote from: glock29

I'll reccommend the same thing I say to ALL Handi-Owners
A 45-70 with Ruger/Level 3 handloads.
Yes the, recoil is severe but it WILL drop anything in North America, plus it lets the shooter know he touched off something WORTHWHILE.

Enough is Enough...in case you were in such of a hurry you didn't actually read what was posted...let me requote it for you...

Quote

I am taking my grandson hunting this fall. He is 13 and not very big.

I truly hope...that you overlooked this...I would hate to have you post that you hadn't made a mistake...and that you intendded this for a small child to shoot....but.... I am beginning to think you didn't make a mistake...and that you are actually recommending shooting Ruger #3 reloads again in a Handi...except this time...you are recommending them for a small child to shoot and possible injure himself in the process...let's take a moment and look back at some of your history on the subject to be sure.....please feel free to correct me if I am wrong ...

Do you remember this statement you made a while back???

Quote

Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Total posts: 174
Location: Michigan
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:35 pm
I personally load my 45/70 Handi-Rifle to the Hodgdon published Ruger-Level 3 loads without any problems !

It seems that you have such a disdain for all mild pleasant shooting loads...or for safe reloading practices...Here's another post of yours...do you remember it by chance...

Quote

Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Total posts: 174
Location: Michigan
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:49 pm
In order to get the MAXIMUM power out of the 45-70, (and why WOULDNT you ?), you must reload this cartridge !
The highest power commercially loaded 45-70's are the Buffalo Bore & Garrett's and these are only "Marlin"/Level 2 Loads.

I have personally been shooting RUGER/Level 3 45-70 handloads (2500fps/300gr, 2300fps/350gr, 2100fps/400gr) out of my Handi-rifle for the past year with no problems and NO high pressure signs.
No commercial source produces 45-70 loads this powerful.

All cartridges should be loaded to the MAXX !
If you don't need that power level, the correct thing to do is choose a smaller cartridge.

I won't even hunt small game with the Level 1 (weak trapdoor) loads; in my book they are good for huntin' paper targets, nuthin' else.

Here...your stating a very dangerous thing to do...and it is something that while it may be of your opinion...isn't a recommended reloading procedure...and dangerous recommendations won't be tolerated..

How about this one...when folks were talking about the 405 Winchester...a cartridge with just as much heritage as the 45-70...

Quote

With the 45-70 you can use level3/Ruger loads that stomp the 405 in terms of energy, along with a heavier bullet that drills a bigger hole in the target, ta boot.

You know...macho bravado is such a farce...it seems you want people to believe you are sooo cool for acting this way...and NOBODY does...get it?

Glock29...I want you to realize something...it is one thing for you to tell someone how hot you reload for...it is all together different to even suggest that it is an accepted practice to do this for a small child...this not only is stupid...but can be very dangerous....I can only hope you made a mistake...please let me know....

If you want to reload to dangerous pressure levels in your Handi rifle...then by all means go for it...this...is your right as a reloader...but...don't continue your antics here by recommending such practices...it is not a safe and accepted reloading practice and won't be tolerated... you have to understand that there are beginning reloaders on this forum...just starting out...wanting to know how to reload...and we don't want anyone injuring themselves...or others...

If...this was all a big mistake ...then I do apologize...but...please understand what will be tolerated and what won't be...posting dangerous advice that can cause injury to the shooter or innocent bystanders won't be tolerated...we are here to help...not hurt someone... and we want everyone to be able to enjoy shooting...not become afraid of it after 1 shot...

Mac

Datil · « **Reply #33 on:** July 21, 2005, 12:55:13 AM »

Mac, Very good post . Thank you Marv.

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 21, 2005, 02:51:31 AM »

:agree: :wink:

poncaguy · « **Reply #35 on:** July 21, 2005, 03:14:26 AM »

I agree 100% mac!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #36 on:** July 21, 2005, 05:21:47 AM »

Yup, wish I'da said that!! :wink:

Tim

Varminter · « **Reply #37 on:** July 21, 2005, 06:42:43 AM »

Great post Mac. Hope it actually gets through to him. When i go to the range i want to be able to shoot for a few hours if not longer. Not just 5-10 shots then head home cause my shoulder's black and blue. He had no business reommending that to a new shooter. His macho approach to everything could very well cause him great injury and i think he should consider that.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:25:00 AM »

I hope he actually responds to my question...it's easy to overlook a posters original intent...and I truly hope this is the case.Some folks that frequent other forums and sites...forget that this is a family oriented web site...and shooters of all sex and ages frequent here...and we want everyone to have a safe and fun experience when shooting our little Handi-rifles...

Time will tell if what I said has done any good or not...We can only hope...

Mac

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2005, 07:47:06 AM »

Mac --Thank you very much , that may help some and save others !!!

Some people just don't get it no matter how much we try to help

Rich.

Longcruise · « **Reply #40 on:** July 21, 2005, 11:36:00 AM »

Whew, now that we have that all cleared up...... :grin:

Actually, the 45-70 would not be a bad idea at all for the young guy if it were loaded to mild .44 mag velocities with say a 300 or 350 grain bullet at 1300 to 1500 fps. Later it would do for bigger game and bigger loads when he's a bit bigger himself.

Just a thought.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #41 on:** July 21, 2005, 01:58:05 PM »

I may be wrong but I don't think Mr glock29 is shooting with a full magazine. I could recommend a .357 max for the young feller thou, Its the most fun to shoot rifle I own, What with .38s, .357mags, .369DWs, and maximums to choose from. Drops white tails real well.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #42 on:** July 21, 2005, 02:06:43 PM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob

What with .38s, .357mags, .369DWs, and maximums to choose from. Drops white tails real well.

Custom calibers we have now!!!! :-D :-D :-D

Tim

tom barthel · « **Reply #43 on:** July 23, 2005, 01:17:45 PM »

Hi

I would suggest a .30-30. Factory ammo is mild to me. If it is excessive try loading it down a bit. This way he can graduate to factory loads as he gets older and is able to handle a little more recoil. I have never killed anything with a .30-30. It does have an excellent reputation and is available anywhere. Give him a few years and see what developes.

Good luck with your decision.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 23, 2005, 03:25:46 PM »

Tom,

That is exactly what I am doing now, down loaded some 30-30's to try & working up to a tolerable load for my youngster, factory 150's were a little too much for him. using some sierra 125's spire points and h4895.

Will crony what he can handle & then see if it has enough vel to hunt with. If not I think hornady has a 125 gr flat point that should open up at lower vel.

If we don't have a good enough load theres alway next year when he is bigger.

Hopefully will try them Monday we have a father son shoot planed but it may be HOT so we will see how long we get

handirifle · « **Reply #45 on:** July 23, 2005, 04:14:54 PM »

They don't make a Handi in it yet but from all I have read, the new Rem 6.8 SPC should be PERFECT for young shooters. It's a 200yd deer cartridge with less recoil than the 30-30 or 243 and as much punch as the 243, 100gr load to 300yds.

Maybe another rifle make?

t3shooter · « **Reply #46 on:** July 23, 2005, 09:05:07 PM »

I'll agree with a bunch of you and add another vote on the 7-08. I have one and it's fantastic, with moderate recoil and and enough energy for deer to as far as you can shoot and a nice trajectory to make any shot to 200yds (about the farthest any new, and many old, shooters should attempt on game) a breeze. Also, as has been pointed out, you can load it down, and it will still be perfectly fine for deer. Another good choice would be something like the 260 Rem, where even lighter bullets could be used to practice with and then work up to a low recoiling hunting load.

glock29 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:24:51 AM »

I actually posted this as a joke; for someone of this size I'd reccommend a 30/30 or a 7/08, nothing more. Some may say the 243, but I wiew this as more of an "expert's" tool that demands very precise shot placement for game the size of deer.

Longcruise · « **Reply #48 on:** July 26, 2005, 08:04:59 AM »

Quote

I wiew this as more of an "expert's" tool that demands very precise shot placement for game the size of deer.

Must be another one of your "jokes".

Mac11700 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 26, 2005, 08:18:54 AM »

Quote from: glock29

I actually posted this as a joke; for someone of this size I'd reccommend a 30/30 or a 7/08, nothing more. Some may say the 243, but I wiew this as more of an "expert's" tool that demands very precise shot placement for game the size of deer.

Sure...your joke was soooooo funny...I forgot to laugh....but...uh...thanks for the clarification anyway...

Mac

Rummer · « **Reply #50 on:** July 27, 2005, 11:40:32 AM »

I have never used the 7-08. But when I was slightly built, recoil sensitive 13 year old, my Dad developed a reduced load for the .308 with 150 grain remington core-lokts from midway (current price is $8.89 per 100).

I can't remember the exact dosage of 748, but the recoil was mild and the load was accurate (read "FUN to shoot!"). This encouraged me to shoot quite a lot.

Ballistically it was probably a .300 savage class load, but it was effective on deer.

I don't know what 708 recoil is like. That may not require any light loading at all.

I would go .308 or 7-08

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #51 on:** July 27, 2005, 03:42:56 PM »

I remember shooting my Dad's 30-30 lever gun when I was a youngster. What most stands out in my mind was the recoil. I didn't like it. It did teach me not to choke up on the scope tho.. had a half-moon above my eye for a week after sniping turtles sunning themselves at the pond.

My dad didn't reload tho, and that is one advantage you have in moderating recoil. I like the downloaded 308 idea. I don't have any experience with the 7-08.

good luck,
Ian

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 27, 2005, 04:07:17 PM »

reloaded some youth loads from hogdons manual for 30-30
125gr ers sierra soft points doin 2050 out of a handi should be OK to 75-100yrds. Anyone have terminal balistics program to calculate this load??
Almost no recoil with a limb saver

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #53 on:** July 27, 2005, 04:33:46 PM »

The only Sierra 125gr in my database is a spitzer, BC=.277

I ran it, got 1021 ft-lb at 50 yards, 892 at 100, 778 at 150, 677 at 200. Velocity is 1560 at 200.

With 1" line of sight (open sights), zero at 100yd, the trajectory is 0.7" high at 50 and 75, 1.4" low at 125, 3.5" low at 150.

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 27, 2005, 04:49:34 PM »

Thanks Mitch thats what I was looking for, looks like the boy has a deer load :agree:
Now if we can just get a deer to cooperate this fall

nixsrs93 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 29, 2005, 05:34:11 AM »

One,

I have been asking the same questions around, and I have narrowed it down to this caliber group:

243 win (only drawback, many say bare minimum deer caliber)
257 roberts (not many rifles in this caliber)
260 rem (don't know much about it)
7-30 waters (looks great in the ballistics tables)
7-08 (might be too much recoil in a light rifle)
30-30 (sounds great if you can load it down)
44 mag (Great knockdown, and no recoil or muzzle blast out of a rifle)

I wish NEF made a 7-30 waters handi barrel!

I may end up getting a youth stock for my 44 mag, as I have had great luck with this caliber in pistol and rifle.

One place that I see many people mess up is going with a really light rifle. Even a 243 in a 5 lb rifle can be a little harsh!

Any thoughts?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #56 on:** July 29, 2005, 05:43:53 AM »

Quote from: nixsrs93

One,

I have been asking the same questions around, and I have narrowed it down to this caliber group:

243 win (only drawback, many say bare minimum deer caliber)
257 roberts (not many rifles in this caliber)
260 rem (don't know much about it)
7-30 waters (looks great in the ballistics tables)
7-08 (might be too much recoil in a light rifle)
30-30 (sounds great if you can load it down)
44 mag (Great knockdown, and no recoil or muzzle blast out of a rifle)

I wish NEF made a 7-30 waters handi barrel!

I may end up getting a youth stock for my 44 mag, as I have had great luck with this caliber in pistol and rifle.

One place that I see many people mess up is going with a really light rifle. Even a 243 in a 5 lb rifle can be a little harsh!

Any thoughts?

Since NEF/H&R doesn't make the 257, 260 or 7-30, it's kind of a moot point, but true. We are talking Handirifles here.... :wink: A .243 SL weighs about 5½lbs, but shooting lighter for caliber, well made bullets would probably work fine....I'd choose that over a .223 or hornet, for sure, the only other calibers offered in the SL.

Tim

handirifle · « **Reply #57 on:** July 29, 2005, 06:38:24 AM »

It has been mentioned here before but I have loaded the reduced (managed recoil?) 30-06 loads for my sons when they were younger and lighter. I can tell you accuracy was more than acceptable and recoil was much less than my 243 Savage or their Handi 30-30's.

Those would be great deer loads to 150yds or so for sure.

Only one thing to consider, and it won't matter if it is a Handi, but if the rifle is to be a bolt gun, don't overlook the disadvantage of a long cartridge like a 30-06. Younger shooters have a harder time working the bolt back that far sometimes. Mine did, and would sometimes not get the bolt all the way back and it would not pick up the next round, since it ejects before it's all the way back they'd stop at that point and shove the bolt forward.

Just something to consider.

tanoose · « **Reply #58 on:** July 29, 2005, 10:11:39 AM »

The handi rifle in 25/06 pops into my head for a young shooter . I am not sure what kind of recoil levels the30/06 light recoil loads are at but with the handi but they would be worth a try i would also reccommend a good recoil pad . i myself prefer the pachmayer decellerator and another thing you can do withthe handis is add a 1 1/2 pound bar into the stock to add weight and lessen the recoil. My 10guage came with such a bar so why not try it in a rifle .