A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party nearly went to jail

[SHOOTALL]

when a leo becomes the judge and jury the system is bound to fail !

[crow_feather]

To tell you the truth, I have never seen a speed trap and I have been in law enforcement for over thirty five years with both state and local agencies.  I have heard people talk of them, but that was many years ago.  I thought most of them had disappeared by now, especially with the age of the computer.  No town wants to be bypassed because of an over zealous officer.  They usually get rid of the officer in favor of the tourist dollar.

It seems to me that if I knew of a speed trap, I would avoid it rather than sell my truck.

[SHOOTALL]

Well if you would like a first hand experience speed through Boones Mill Va. or Colonial Heights Va. by aboutboth have been listed as such by AAA in their trip tick books and list !
you are correct when it comes to a speed trap town they don't want you to pass at least before you donate to the cause !
i have to ask what would the computer have to do with it ?

[billy_56081]

If it was a misdemeanor just never go back to Nevada.

[crow_feather]

I would hope that via computer, there would be a list somewhere of speed trap locations.  If not, it would be a good thing to start.  I consider traps legal stealing.

[SHOOTALL]

AAA had a list but i have not checked for years , If ya start one let us know !

[Graybeard]

Well Crow Feather if you've never seen one come on down my way some day and I'll show ya some. There is a little town just a very few miles up the road from me that's had a well justified reputation as one since I was a teenager. Most every time I go thru there and I do often I see at least one ticket being given out. They are on a major US highway that is THE thorofare between the two largest cities in our area and they sure take advantage of the fact everyone going between the two cities have to pass thru them.

I'll bet over the years they've taken in far more revenue on speeding tickets than tax revenue. Coming into their city limits which stretches miles beyond their tiny little town you drop from 65 to 55 to 45 really fast. Not many down to 45 until well beyond the sign. I slow down to it before the sign cuz I know it's there and that they are serious. As soon as you get thru their hick town into the larger city on the other side the speed limit goes up to 50mph immediately even tho far more congested with far more traffic.

[crow_feather]

I have never had to live, work, or pass through such a place.  If I had, my stubborn nature would surely have landed me in jail or with a suspended license.  The one thing that all people must do is resist legal bullies with a badge.  I would complain to the state police that city units are poaching every time I saw a city unit working the highway.  When everybody complains enough, and high enough up, somebody will take notice.  Everyone has to complain, and continue until the snots are stopped.

If I was stopped and warned, I would count my blessings, complain to the proper authorities, warn my friends, and then continue on with my life choosing to forget the bad things and remember the cute things my grandchildren do.

[SHOOTALL]

crow feather i admire your attitude and stance , but a speed trap is income for the city or county and no one will listen to you complain as long as it produces income for the civil servants in the area .

[Graybeard]

Here in Alabama writing speeding tickets is the PRIMARY duty of both State Troopers and County Deputies. The state guys will write up accident reports when they finish writing a ticket but if no one is injured it might take them an hour to stop writing tickets to do so. The county guys will come write up a report if you have a buglary or vandalism but won't waste ticket writing time to investigate it afterward.

[SHOOTALL]

there is a big sign you see entering Va. on most roads and all thru. the state that says KEEP VIRGINIA GREEN , most think it referrs to not setting forrest fires , but we think it means pay those trafic fines with green dollars ! Guess with the new money they need to change the sign to read KEEP VIRGINIA COLORFUL !

[crow_feather]

Where I worked, the major reason for citations is prevention of accidents, and seat belt enforcement.  Their goal was reduction of lives lost in accidents.  They were hot on speed, seat belts, and other violations that were the primary cause of accidents.  They didn't believe in CS tickets where someone was going 5 mph over the limit, and an officer was expected to be on the highway and not behind a billboard.  They were very concerned about their reputation as a professional organization.  I was never embarased to say who I worked for.  There were exceptions, officers that used their badge for a power trip.  But most were weeded out in the extensive hiring process, and the rest usually didn't last long when the complaints started rolling in.  They change or find other employment. It was a great organization to work for.  I guess that's why it's hard for me to believe that some places are different.

[SHOOTALL]

this will blow your mind then , around here police officers are expected to write a certian amount of tickets each mo.

[crow_feather]

we were also - not a quota - but they expected us to do more than just look handsome in our uniforms.

[rex6666]

Three of us hunting geese on a ranch in west Texas several years ago, we all kill our
limit walk over to our trucks to start cleaning, Game Warden drives up starts small talk
while he watches us clean. He ask why the Bird dogs, we say we are going about 25 mi north
to hunt Quail. he talks until we finish cleaning, then he says we need to follow him into town
to see the JP, because we have not left one wing on the geese so they can be identified.
i did not know this(did not say i was Innocent) i was ignorant still does not excuse it. we went to see JP, SHE fined us all $300.00 each and took the geese, when ask why he did not tell us we were doing wrong he says we should have known (which is true) but all he had to do was say stop before i have to fine you. to really top it off about a month later we
all got a letter from the state saying we owed $25.00 for each goose REPLACEMENT COST
you talk about double dipping, we all wrote letters (we didn't know the state raised geese
to replace with) we got letters back saying pay fines or lose license. guess what we did.

[crow_feather]

   When people become law enforcement officers, it doesn't change their personality.  There are some people that take the job just so they can mess over other people.  It is hard to weed them out as they are doing things correctly, just with a smile on their face.

  Then there are those, (we have one here) that just hasn't any feelings concerning other people.  They would arrest the Mother Mary for child abuse because she had her child in a manger.

And there are those who hate the rich bastards (their terminology) that come down to their state, shoot their game, cause land owners to put up no trespassing signs so they can sell trespass fees, and get rich guiding out of state hunters.

As they say - payback is a mother.

ps;  whenever I speak with a game warden, I get a little paranoid.  I always ask them if there is anything I might worry about that could get me into trouble. is everything O K, do they see anything I might be doing wrong.  I get some weird looks, but I've also gotten some good advice.   

[SHOOTALL]

game wardens , I was in a blind on a river with a friend when a boat came at the blind at full speed , now keep in mind these guys were not dressed like or in any way IDed as game wardens or any other type LEO ! the blind was on an island ( mud flat ) . the guy in the front of the boat jumped out when the boat slid up on the mud , runs over to the blind and jerks the door open to which he sees my 12 ga. pointed at him ! he says drop the gun I'm a game warden , to which i say ya don't look like one ( his buddy says see i told you this was a bad idea ) . he goes back to his boat to get his badge and ID and shows me . Now he wanted to throw the book at me for pointing the gun at him but his buddy pointed out it would be thrown out of court , we were legal in every way ( i consider self protection legal ) so no tickets were written . the buddy and i talked for a while and the first warden lightened up in the end every body was ok !
I really didn't get pissed or anything for them trying to catch poachers , they had already got two groups that morning with illegal ducks .. but it was stupid to rush the blind with out ID . he could have held up his ID as he jumped from the boat or opened the door . to be honest i didn't even consider him to be a GW until he said something !
in the same county on an island we were deer hunting , another group was up stream at the airport making a once a year hunt at the airport to thin the deer that walk out on runway . Now this is a big event with over 50 deer being killed each year . all the land around the area is posted , i had permission to hunt 400 ac. we didn't know of the hunt at the air port , so we are making drives and doing quite well when i see a GW talking to my dad , another one talking to another of our group , then a guy with running pants , tee shirt , running shoes , a badge , a gun and a radio pops out at full speed and heads for me . He runs up and says GOT YA ! SO I ASK FOR WHAT ? he say hunting on posted land so i show him written permission , which ruins his whole day . they just knew we were illegal , had spotted us from the air , one was a reg. warden , one a captain and a Sargent , after that it got to the point they would come in to check and see it was me and just wave , The capt. later told me every time i showed up to hunt some one would call and complain ! lots of anties in area !

[NONYA]

Cant stand those gungho "wish i was a real cop" wardens,I do love the look of disappointment on their faces when they cant write you a ticket!

[Rogue Ram]

HEY CROW FEATHER. Where do you get off claiming I bash every game warden walking the woods?

I BTTT  as a WARNING.  I don't hate all game wardens. GET IT? I happen to employ and supervise a number of retired command staff types from a wildlife enforcement agency.

FYI This same idiocy has gone on again this time involving some State Troopers hunting on private land IN OREGON during antelope season. The wardens got backed down this time by the landowner who happened to show up with clear proof the wardens were the ones trespassing. And yes, everyone involved was aware what happenened  us and other by these yahoos. 

The only thing bothering me is that no one has as of yet reined these guys in. Nothing is eating me up. A GPS would have kept me safe in the first place, MY FAULT I DIDN'T HAVE ONE.

So, to the point: guys, BE CAREFUL OUT THERE.

rr

[crow_feather]

O K Rogue,

If you say so,

[SuperstitionCoues]

To tell you the truth, I have never seen a speed trap and I have been in law enforcement for over thirty five years with both state and local agencies.  I have heard people talk of them, but that was many years ago.  I thought most of them had disappeared by now, especially with the age of the computer.  No town wants to be bypassed because of an over zealous officer.  They usually get rid of the officer in favor of the tourist dollar.

It seems to me that if I knew of a speed trap, I would avoid it rather than sell my truck.

Crowfeather, I thought you were on the level until I saw this.  Makes me wonder at what level of law enforcement you have been in.  Rather Pollyannish, aren't you?  I can take you to three speed traps w/in 25 miles of my house.

Also, as for the original post, I would have fought this one tooth and nail based on the principle - you could not have been the first to have had it happen to you, and I will bet that those CO's had a bad reputation in the courts.

[Rogue Ram]

Super,

My bad #2: sometimes the most expensive and widely known attorney isn't the best. This gets more into details, but for reasons made very clear to us by some LE folks in Oregon we stashed our RV, gear, and a vehicle where no one could get it and drove straight through to Reno to find an attorney. We were pressed for time, and went with what we had. What the attorney said he would do for us, vs what he ended up not doing led to the outcome. The civil compromise reached paled in comparison to what the atty threw at us when he changed his mind on what he'd charge to go to trial. I spoke to the DA afterwards........he even told me the case was ludicrous and was being dismissed until the yahoos changed their statement(s) regarding a conversation between the one warden and I. He was real quiet when I told him our version of events, and told him he might just want to speak to their bosses about the way they do business, i.e., pointing guns at people without identifying yourself nor displaying a badge nor uniform. Where it went from there, clearly no where, as they are still hunting  the Oregon borders looking for strays, now even though they have GPS they are crossing into Oregon confronting people in the right. Maybe this time the Oregon cops' boss will take some action, or maybe the landowner will.  Funny, Oregon State Police Game troops don't act this way.

In any event, BE CAREFUL. And pack a GPS!

RR

[SuperstitionCoues]

Thank you for the clarification; I am glad you took it as far as you could.  From what I have experienced working with Az. G&F as a researcher, I think you would have  at least a fair shake with the Game Commission, our adjudicating board.  And yes, I will be doing two things: updating my GPS and staying out of Nevada (we have been discussing moving to the PacNW).  I never have liked the casinos.

[tomzuki]

I no longer support LEO's.  Here at best they are nothing but a bunch of union benefit suckers who prostitute themselves on the guise of upholding the law.  Now no doubt they must take a lota crap from the rif-raf, but they hassle, lie, cheat and act a lot like this example indiscriminately.  The Wardens, miss every chance to educate and make up their own rules as they please.  I no longer fish in a well known Eastern Sierrra area because the Warden once said that each fisherman had to have their own stringer or creel.  This is not mentioned in the regulations.  We ran him off, and he came back with back-up!  They ruined a great trip, established ill will for their Dept. and the local city has lost revenue because I'm convinced that I am not the only one they hassled, ever.  I always fish now with the regulations in my pocket for reference.  Course you need to be a lawyer to understand them. 

I also try not to ever go to Los Angeles because the Sheriffs Dept are nothing but a bunch of square-heads who also make stuff up and charge to excess hoping to get something to stick.  It's no wonder that we have not had more riots considering their bad "Tudes".

[crow_feather]

SuperstitionCoues,

I worked the freeways in California with an agency that investigates EVERY complaint received and an officer best take notice when too many complaints were received.  As for speed traps, we received no money from our cites.  It all went to the county.  So there wasn't any reason to tag more than necessary.  And in that state, I never did see a speed trap.  When I went out of State, I usually stayed on the freeways.

[SuperstitionCoues]

SuperstitionCoues,

I worked the freeways in California with an agency that investigates EVERY complaint received and an officer best take notice when too many complaints were received.  As for speed traps, we received no money from our cites.  It all went to the county.  So there wasn't any reason to tag more than necessary.  And in that state, I never did see a speed trap.  When I went out of State, I usually stayed on the freeways.

What agency?

[flyboy]

Unfortunately, my home state has a history and reputation for peckerwood game wardens.

My boss told a story about he and a group of his friends bird hunting. Shortly before dusk, they were gathered in the middle of a field, talking over the afternoon, when a game warden came running across the field, screaming at the top of his voice, waving his pistol, and intentionally discharging it into the ground. 
He ticketed the whole  group for hunting after legal hours.  By everyone's watches, they had about 1/2 hour to go. They were successful in fighting it, but it was $$$ and time wasted. 

Another of our wardens, years ago, wrote a book about his life, saying he had great fun watching fishermen or women. When the ladies had to answer a call of nature, he would sneak up on them, jump out of the brush, and holller"GOT YOU!  He apparently enjoyed causing them  embarassment.

I had a discussion with a young hero warden one day, about who should be first in a car wash line.  Seeing as how he was carrying half the power of God on his hip, I didn't contest it.

I think most wardens are of the better sort, but there are a number who need to be weeded out. The sooner, the better.

[Siskiyou]

Yesterday my brother told me about his encounter with a California Fish & Game Warden.  It was a very good experience and he received some good information.  For a person who likes to gripe he did not have one.

In regards to speed traps be aware of I-5 just before Ashland, OR.  The Oregon State Police hang out at the bottom of the steep down grade nailing out of State cars.  No they have never nailed me because I am very careful, but on numerous occasions I have observed multiple cars pulled over there at the same time.  The key is to obey the speed limit on both sides of the State Line. 

[Rogue Ram]

Very coincidental, I happened to go out with Fish and Game on an operation this weekend around the area where I live.  I was horrified..stunned....to see what was happening after I would normally be coming out of the woods after dark! It was like rush hour....idiot teenage and young adult kids running rampant, guns, beer, mudding, spotlighting, all during deer season. No question why no one in our area even sees, much less bags deer or elk anymore except on private property. I cannot fathom why the big timber company landowner hasn't just shut their gates and said "NO". I'd hate to see it, but I'd do it if I was in their place. The game wardens...wow........I won't say exactly how they were doing business, but what you'd think would be easy pickin's on these potential problem children was anything but easy. They knew exactly how far they could push something and sure did. By yourself, middle of the night, car load of illegals with guns who won't speak english, some place they shouldn't be. Man it doesn't get tougher than that.

RR

[crow_feather]

Thank you sir