Future for Remington Ultra Magnums

[Paulinus]

In reading this forum I have noticed several posts forecasting the soon demise of some Ultra Mags.  

After a relatively strong attempt, Remington seems to have backed off on the 7mm RUM (keeping only one factory load), but Remington has keep it available in its new 700 lines XCR and CDL.  Rifle offerings in the other RUM chamberings are rather limited also.  The exception seems to be the 300 RUM.

What is the actual status of the RUM line of catridges?  The Remington short action mags. appear to be about dead.

Thanks,

[Lawdog]

RSAUM and the RUM’s need to pay attention, “The Fat Lady is warming up”.  Lawdog
 

[Yukon Jack]

I think the 300 and 338 RUM will be around for a long time.  The 7mm may be doomed if a better powder isn't developed for it.  I think Remington has all but given up on the 375, which I don't believe will be around in the near future.

It sounds like shooters aren't getting much more velocity over the 7mm Weatherby or 7mm STW, but using a lot more powder and quicker barrel wear.

The 375 doesn't offer anything more useable than the 375 H&H.  Let's face it, hunters aren't going to use a 375 RUM for long range hunting, that kind of power and recoil isn't required for animals that require long range rigs.  Where the .375" bore really shines is on moose and bear sized game, not typically shot at long range and the 375 H&H kills as well as the RUM version at the ranges you normally hunt those animals at.  AND, the 375 H&H has, roughly, a 90 year head start with nearly every manufacturer making rifles so chambered.  So you get a wider choice of rifles chambered for the H&H, especially if you don't like Remington, more ammunition choices if you don't handload, money savings if you do handload and all the benefits of the 375 bore.  Typically if people want something more than the H&H, they step up in caliber size, not case capacity.

When it comes to the big nasty animals, there is no replacement for displacement.  All the velocity in the world is not going to turn a .375 caliber bullet into a like constructed .416, .458, .475, or .510 caliber.

[cal sibley]

I don't know why Remington is making some of these calibers anyway.
They're too powerful for most of what is in N. America.  What worries me about Remington is they are super quick to drop a caliber that isn't selling to their expectations.  So, if you already have one, hold your breath.  Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

[JPSaxMan]

This seems like a roller coaster ride and I think ya'll should just hold on tight and enjoy the ride...maybe?  

[nomosendero]

I agree with Lawdog on this except for one cartridge, the .300 RUM. It will
not be going anywhere! This round has been well accepted by the Long
Range crowd. Rem. slowed down their potential sales a little by the crazy
move to drop the Sendero, but the PSS is still selling which gives us a
fairly good factory Long Range Hunting/Target platform. The other Rems. in this chambering will be used by many to hunt Elk. A great deal of
custom guns are being built in .300 RUM. which will keep the brass sales
strong. It is hard to argue with the effectiveness of a 200 Grain Accubond
traveling at 3,200 FPS in long range applications. Some have found the
200 gr. Match King & the 200 Accubond have near identical flight paths in
some rifles which helps.
The 7mm is a dud for most people & like Yukon Jack said it offers little over the 7STW. You must have a 28" or longer tube & load heavy bullets
to get a gain so I think it will go away.
I don't have high hopes for the 338 either, but it may have a small chance.
Some of the 338 custom guns are now in versions such as the .338 Edge
which actually uses the 300 RUM case.
I just don't see the numbers to keep the 375 going & I think it would be
a tough battle to fight the great 375 H&H !
I think the WSM line has kicked Remington's butt in design & timing too
much for Rem. to ever recover with the RSUAM line! I think the case
cap. & design would be great for a .25 & 6.5 RSUAM especially since
Win. did not give us a .25WSM. I think these two could stand alone & do
well but if it's too good an idea the Rem. boys probably won't do that. More
than one sucess out of all these choices would be far too scary!   [/quote]

[Yukon Jack]

I think the 338 RUM will be around for both big game hunters and the long range crowd.  The 338 RUM compares nicely to the 338 Lapua, in a more economical package (actions and brass).  I believe Remington scored with the 300 and 338, though I thought they had a great cartridge in the 8mm Rem Mag, but they weren't loyal enough to it and didn't market it very well.

I see no reason the RSAUMs should not have been as popular as the WSM's.  Of course, the public was only going to buy one.  I guess Remington was behind the curve on releasing their short action mags, but they didn't promote them very well either.  Winchester put their rifles in hands of gunwriters the public trusted early on, in good rifles and made them available to public in short order.  AND, they promoted the heck out of them.  I still do not agree with the comparisons Winchester is making with their WSM line, but apparently, it works.

[nomosendero]

Yukon Jack
I hope you are right about the 338, actually it is a well designed round.

Concerning the 6.5 SAUM I mentioned, I am afraid I may be letting my
personal feelings get in the way, because after all, 6.5's have a hard time
making it on our side of the pond. The 6.5x284 is winning big time at the
1000 yard line & I feel the 6.5 SAUM might have this potential & be a
little better game round, but I doubt that it would be marketed properly
which is moot because I doubt seriously that Rem. would try this.

I have no doubt about the .25 SAUM but most likely we will never know.

[Paulinus]

My interest in the Remington Ultra Magnum line comes from a developing interest in long range hunting.

I find it interesting that in the Remington 2005 catalog the new 700 XCR line has both the .338 Win mag. and the .338 RUM (the .338 Win mag. had disappeared from the model 700 after the introduction of the .338 RUM), and both the .375 H&H and .375 RUM are also available in the XCR.  

Thus, Remington is making available complete pairings: 7mm Rem. mag. and 7mm RUM; 300 Win. mag. and 300 RUM, .338 Win. mag. and .338 RUM, and 375 H&H and 375 RUM.  I cannot tell if this is an indicator of the RUM future, or Remington acknowledging the continuing desire for the “older” established calibers in the 700.

Does anyone have sales data (either rifles or ammo) in RUM?  I know Chuck Hawk on his web site makes reference to the “best selling.” “2nd best selling,: etc. ammo.  I assume there is data out there somewhere.

[Lawdog]

The main problem with Remington dropping cartridge is due to the accountants that seem to be running Remington.  Of the RUM line the most popular is the .300 but unlike what is being said here it seems the sales show that second is the 7mm with the .338 third and the ..375 last.  Not to long ago in an effort to boost sales of the .338 & .375 RUM Remington dropped for a while the .338 Winchester and the .375 H&H, both of which were outselling their counterparts from Remington.  Even sales for the .300 RUM are dropping and if the trend continues the RUM line, along with the RSAUM, will go the way of the many other cartridges.  Doesn’t matter how well they perform as it’s the “bean counters” that will make the final decision.  Lawdog
 

[JPSaxMan]

Of course Lawdog, that's because they're concerned about making money. If a round isn't selling as well as they'd like, gone. Maybe they'll design a new round to replace it. If that doesn't go, that one's gone too...that's how it seems to work  :eek:  

[Ramrod]

The Remington short action mags. appear to be about dead.

If they aren't already, they have one foot in the grave, and the other on a bannana peel. And as we all know, the management of this once great company is brain dead. It's time to pull the plug.

[loaded4bear]

I believe the 300 ultra mag will be around for some time to come, due in no small part to the popularity of the 30 caliber cartridge in this country. The other ultra mags...only time will tell.  
 
As for the RSAUM cartridges, I think that whole lot is going the way of the dodo. They are a distant 2nd to the first horse out of the gate (WSM), and have never been able to close the gap. I initially thought  the 7mm RSAUM might be a winner due to Big Green's success with other 7mm entries they brought to market (7mm Rem Magnum, 7mm-08, 7mm STW), but this doesn't seem to be the case. While Winchester's short mags continue to gain in popularity & diversification (hell they even brought out an 8mm in the .325 WSM), Remington's short mag line-up appears to be sliding into obscurity.
 
An interesting note though, is that Remington is giving their original "short mags" (.350 Remington Magnum & 6.5mm Remington Magnum) a new lease on life with their reintroduction in the 673 Guide Rifle. In my opinion these are two fine cartridges that were simply ahead of their time when introduced in the 1960's. A longer barrel in the 673 both improves ballistics and cuts down on muzzle blast, both criticisms of the original 600 & 660 rifles. Modern powders & premium bullets also allow for better performance from these cartridges.  It seems that Remington may have seen their future by looking into the past!

[VSSF]

I love my Ultra Mag. Look MOM no belt.

[Lawdog]

VSSF,

MOM no belt.

What is so bad about a belt?  They don't cause feeding problems as some rumors have stated.  I am curious, what other problems have belts caused?  Lawdog
 

[VSSF]

Didn't mean anything bad with it,Just seems that you don't like anything that Remington makes and you really don't like Ultra Mags.Greybeard needs a Weatherby Forum for you.From everything i've read or been told,I don't own a belted case,have fired a bunch though.A belted case headspaces on the belt,while a non-belted case headspaces on the shoulder. Supposedly the shoulder is more accurate being more in-line with the bore.I just happen to love my Remingtons.Delete this if it's a problem,thnx.

[Yukon Jack]

You can headspace a belted magnum on the shoulder.  There is no problem in doing so, that I have found.

This belted case thing got blown way out of proportion by marketing the new beltless magnums.  Neither is any better or worse than the other.  H&H introduced the 375 belted magnum in 1911 or so.  They felt the cartridge needed a belt for proper headspacing, and it probably does.  Every magnum cartridge introduced by Winchester or Remington to around 1963 (300 Win Mag, I don't know what year the 350 Rem or the 6.5 Rem Mags were introduced) were based off the 375 belted case.  They did this because that case gave them everything they were looking for in case capacity (even if they did cut it down to 2.50"), and there was a seemingly limitless supply of brass and no changes to actions to accomodate feeding of some exotic case had to be done.  It was not about marketing or "magnum hype".  It was based on efficiency, effectiveness and economics.  Never has there been any issue with fine accuracy using a belted case, nor has there been any feeding problems provided the maker did as they should.

Winchester began looking at the new beltless cases when the popularity of the 404 Jeff and 416 Rigby became more popular and common with U.S. shooters.  While Winchester did change their case from the 404 Jeffery to a modified 348 Win case, the Dakotas and others have been based on one of the 40 cal's mentioned.  I would surmise that it is highly likely that if Dakota and Lazzeroni had not have had success with their magnums, Winchester or Remington would not have gambled with the new lineups.  Also, if the popularity of the old Jeffery and Rigby had not increased where the public was willing to gamble on cases this size and manufacturing costs were negated, we would likely still be waiting on the beltless wonders.

There is nothing wrong with a belted case, and as long as attention is paid to making sure feeding is correct, there is nothing wrong with the new beltless magnum cases.  One was based on economy and efficiency and the other is based on shooters having more disposable income.

[slappy375]

Well all this talk of the remington dieing off I was thinking of buying a weatherby.But after looking through there website and catalog I could not find any 375 or 378 other than wood,not a wood fan to easy to scratch wood and not in stainless.Unless you are willing to go the custom shop route.

[nomosendero]

VSSF
Is that a 7 or a 300?

[VSSF]

It's a 300. 6.5-20 Leupold, 180gr. Scirrocco's over 98gr. of Retumbo.                                                                                            

[nomosendero]

VSSF
That gun is about as good as it gets for a long range rifle in factory form.
Some are using 200 Gr. Accubonds at about 3,200FPS with the powder you
are now using & the long range accuracy & reduced wind drift is amazing!
But you are using a good bullet also.

I have a 300WM Sendero in a limited edition Laminated stock version. It
will shoot groups at 500 yards that are very hard to believe in a fact. gun
but I have reliable witnesses. I bought this gun before the .300RUM came
out. When the chamber erodes I may convert it to .300RUM or just
throat out for the 200 Gr. bullets, either way will work for me.
Good Luck

[Lawdog]

VSSF,

Didn't mean anything bad with it,Just seems that you don't like anything that Remington makes and you really don't like Ultra Mags.

You couldn't be more wrong.  I own a number of Remington products.  Just none manufactured after the mid 1980’s.  Won't own any either until Remington changes their ways.

A belted case headspaces on the belt,while a non-belted case headspaces on the shoulder. Supposedly the shoulder is more accurate being more in-line with the bore.

I head space all my belted cartridges(Weatherby or whatever) on both the shoulder and the belt.  Not that hard to do.  Just takes a little adjusting of the dies.  I was taught this back in the early 1960’s when I first started reloading.  I was just curious to why the comment “MOM no belt”.  Lawdog
 

[nomosendero]

I too have learned to space on the shoulder & belt. Some have complained
about case stretch in front of the belt, but adjusting the dies properly takes
care of at least some of this! I do not get the case life out of the belted
mag cases that I do with std. cases, but I sometimes push them harder too & it is not a big deal to me because I don't shoot them in the volume that I do a .223 or a 25-06 anyway.

No, I think that it is more of an issue of a manufacturer than the end user.
It is easier & cheaper to make the non-belted cases & the belt brings the
end user no advantages what-so-ever! So, I don't look for any company to introduce a new cartridge with a belted case unless it is a necked down
.450 Marlin & we all know the purpose of that belt, be it wise or not.

The .300 RUM case is very strong & well shaped as is the WSM case.

I don't know what VSSF was meaning when he said look Mom no belt, but
it could be that he was pointing out you don't have to have a belt to be a
Magnum anymore & in fact there is no need with a bottle neck case to
have one! At least, that is what the statement reminded me of.

[Lawdog]

nomosendero,

No, I think that it is more of an issue of a manufacturer than the end user.
It is easier & cheaper to make the non-belted cases

Yup, we agree here.  And it's funny you should mention a new cartridge based on the .450 Marlin as I have been working on a 9.3mm-450 Marlin but not for lever action rifles but for bolt actions.  Still playing with shoulder angles.  Lawdog
 

[nomosendero]

Lawdog
Sounds like a Bear & Hog thumper in the making to me! In addition to
the foreign bullets, the Nosler Part. 286Gr. gets very good reviews & now
Barnes is offering the TSX in 250 &286Gr.! I also notice that the 286 Gr.
has the same Sect. Density as a 300 Gr. 375 H7H. I see where you could
build a rifle for this round that would be compact & handle good in the thickets, but yet have good frontal area, super penetration & gain 50-75
yards more range over the .450 Marlin.
Keep us posted!  

Rod Smith

[kudzu]

the rem 7 and 300 saum's will phase out - the 7rum wii make it due to the number off 7mm fans and the discomtined stw - the 300rum will allwasys be around and may put the 338rum out if people look at the ballistics.
the 270 and 300 wsm 's will make it, not sure on the 7wsm.
of these i have - 7rum sendero - 150 scirroco with 94.45 gr RL25
                        300saum 150 scirroco    Rem 673
                        270wsm Fac 140 Accu bond Ruger 77 Lam/stain
                        300rum Rem 700bdl - just got but will probally go with  
                                                         180gr scirroco

[BattleRifleG3]

I thought it amusing that for some time Remington sold ammo in 300 Wby cheaper than in 300 RUM.  I noticed more recently they just about switched the prices.  I wonder why

I think Remington has made the mistake of trying to compete with long standing rounds like the 375 H&H and the 300 Weatherby, when they could own the 35 caliber range with a 35 RUM.  With the 458 Win Mag being a monster and the brushbusters coming back, I think a 458 short mag would do well.  With the 458 Lott also coming into popularity as giving an edge on the Win Mag, I could also see a 458 RUM taking a bite out of the Win Mag at a price worlds beneath the 460 Weatherby and without the reputation for the most destructive of recoil.

I'm a larger caliber ultra mag fan, having a 300 RUM and having thought of the others.  I WOULD like a 375 Ultra except for a couple problems.  First, the places I would practically use it are remote.  In remote locations you don't want an uncommon round.  Also, 375 H&H ammo is far more more affordable than many, even the 300 RUM.  In fact it may be the most affordable large bore magnum out there.  On the 338 RUM, I think it actually has the 338 Lapua to thank for its success.  Now that the 338 is thought of as a decent sniper round with 300gr match bullets, the high accuracy 300 RUM gives a far more desireable alternative.

What I think Remington needs to do with Ultra Mags is do what Winchester didn't do.  A 6.5 SAUM, a 338 or 375 SAUM (winchester refused to shorten their case enough, hence the 325), a 358 RUM, a 416 RUM, and a 458 RUM.  Any or all of the above.  Forget the 7mm SAUM.  AR-10 makers like Armalite and DPMS may have saved the 300 SAUM by choosing it over the WSM for their magnum ARs.

[victorcharlie]

I think the biggest problem is most shooters don't enjoy shooting something that a fellow needs to pack a hundred grains of powder in!  There are popular,longer existing rounds that are more efficient.

The market was already filled, and they were trying to hit a nitch of being the biggest, baddest, fire breathing, lead spitting gollywhopper on the block......Maybe the nitch will have enough interest to keep it alive, but I just don't see the need.......and we all know the bean counters are only interested in the beans, not the bean field...........JMHO

[BattleRifleG3]

I doubt people are looking for compactness at all with the 300 RUM.  I'm sure a number of us simply use it for long range flat trajectoried target shooting.

In that case, I think Remington could make it more marketable by offering a 30" barreled version.  Up to that length, the 300 RUM is pretty comparable to the 30-378 Weatherby.  It would give it a real advantage over the competition and with less muzzle blast than before.

[nomosendero]

BattleRifleG3
That is what a lot of the Custom Rifle Boys are doing, anywhere from 28"-30". The 300UM is really making a name for itself with these guys.