Author Topic: What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!  (Read 1007 times)

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Offline nofun1

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« on: July 28, 2005, 03:07:34 PM »
I am so frustrated I am just about to give up and trash my whole Handi collection. Except ofcouse my beloved Hornet. I have bought 9 handis in the last year. I am down to 4 now My hornet that I love, a 223 heavy That is decent, and a 204 that shoots well. Heres where my frustration comes in I have bought 5 handis 243 or bigger looking for a truck gun and not one of them will shoot worth a darn i've tried 3 243s 2 270s I cant get one to group better than 3" A 243 superlight I even sent back to H&R. Some of you guys where in on that saga.  I just bought one today a 243 standard weight with a wood stock, after cleaning it and O-ringing the stock I took it out and got a sweet 3 inch group  :(   The guy at the gunshop thinks I'm nuts but happily buys back my handis for 30-40 bucks less after 2 days.  I have lots of big guns that shoot great so its not a recoil issue. If you guys have any thoughts I'd sure love to hear them before I commit Handicide.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2005, 03:20:54 PM »
It is you,and you alone so take a good look at your methods before you get anything else.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline quickdtoo

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2005, 03:35:53 PM »
Well, maybe a little refresher is in order...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=361157&highlight=#361157

And good advice from Mac...
Quote from: Mac11700


Asking questions and then following the advice given is the most appropriate way of doing things. Some folks..won't take that advice and put it to good use...it's sooo much easier to blame the gun...than anything else...when things don't go as expected.This happens a-lot here...some who have never shot one of these rifles...see some of the good groups that have been posted and they think because others got good results with 1 brand of ammo...or 1 different handload...they should get the same...and this isn't the case with these rifles...that's one of the reasons it's a Love/Hate relationship with them...I've tried a bunch of different loads that have given spectacular groups from a members rifles...only to be bitterly disappointed at the results when shot from mine...The main thing to remember is...no 2 rifles will shoot the same all the time...there are just too many variables in play here.

Polishing the bore and chamber... is a straight forward procedure.If you can clean a rifle barrel...then you can do this simple task...and if you follow the normal-safe cleaning steps...you shouldn't have any problems...so stop worrying so much and just go and do it...if your still unsure...look to the sticky at the top of the forum and go over how it's done...Adding a o-ring to the forearm will tell you a-lot by firing the same ammo...what you should be trying to do when first starting out is to get consistant groups...and then improve on that...getting benchrest size groups  doesn't happen often...most the time you have to have everything perfect...and do everything perfectly.. and expecting great groups..without having the proper set up at the range...or having the proper shooter technique...is a lesson in futility...Some of us here have spent eons honing our shooting skillls....going to the range to just burn ammo isn't a good learning situation...nor is using a bunch of different ammo on the same range trip...unless you are cleaning your barrel between the different  types completely...it doesn't do either you...the rifle...nor the ammo justice when looking for respectable group size.

Getting good groups one day...only to turn around the very next and get lousy groups...is down right agravating...I have done this on numerous occasions.When this happens...you have a choice...continue wasting ammo...or stop and figure out what has changed...this is where you get to use your deductive reasoning powers...or...at least you should...A simple way of doing this is keeping a journal...or log book...chart the time...all the weather conditions...how rested you were..what the condition of the rifle was...clean or dirty...also ... the lot numbers of factory ammo you were using...most of this is just common sense things...but can aid you in figuring out accuracy problems.....So...where do you go from here???..It's time to go over your rifle...clean and polish it...check all your screws on your mounts and rings..float the barrel up so it doesn't make contact with the forearm...get one of the better rests or sand bags so you can shoot it resting on the receiver/hingpin area...and try again...take your time when shooting...don't rush...learn where your trigger breaks...and continue pulling all the way thru...this is a accuracy killer...if you don't...and check the pull weight of it..if it is real hard and gritty...clean it and polish it...if you can't or son't want to figure it out...get it to a qualified gunsmith and let him... ...add some weight to the stock and get a soft cheek piece for the stock...by doing these things...it will make shooting off the bench easier...and won't tire you out as fast...physically and mentally...

Good Luck

Mac


Are all these new rifles?  Properly fitted used barrels?? More info needed, please!



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And a reminder to loose the profanity, it's not accepted here and will not be tolerated.

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Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline nofun1

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2005, 03:36:03 PM »
perhaps but why arent I having problems with any other brands. I have also had friends that are great shots shoot everyone before I get rid of it and they say the same thing as I do

Offline McLernon

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Don't Commit Handicide
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2005, 03:37:05 PM »
I had to respond to your post because you have made such a substantial investment in NEF Handi's and are about to commit Handicide. First let me say I only have one Handi, a .223 standard. I have had all kinds of difficulties getting it to shoot but finally after much 'tuning' and learning how to handle my new Handi I now have a pretty accurate rifle.

I can't imagine trying to get nine Handi's to shoot in the span of one year, especially some of the big bangers. I don't know how tuned into this forum you are but in case you're not I must say that there are some really helpful folks here. So there is plenty of help available.

I've been reminded several times during my 'Handi trials' that each Handi is an individual and what works for one may not work so well for another. I encourage you to tune into GBO and remain tuned in and work with one Handi at a time.

Best wishes for nine tuned Handi's

McL

Offline Norseman112

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2005, 04:39:26 PM »
well all I can say about my experiences is I have two handi rifles and both shoot under an inch if I do my part. Since I reload I tried various loads and did free float my barrels( I am going to glass bed them this winter). Are you trying different types of ammo? Also what kinds?  and what calibers are you having problems with? Are you using the same scope with all of them? if so what kind?

I am also careful not to let my barrel get hot. What type of barrel break in procedure are you using? What type of rest are shooting from?

Norse

Offline cheatermk3

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2005, 04:43:16 PM »
nofun1 said:
   "...I just bought one today a 243 standard weight with a wood stock, after cleaning it and O-ringing the stock I took it out and got a sweet 3 inch group."  

I think you should try shooting a new Handi just as it comes from the box, and then take the steps to improve it one at a time.  

I have had handis that went from pretty good groups to pretty sad, using the same load, by doing the O-ring thing.  This is not a universal remedy.

I've read here that some will polish a new bore before even trying it.  I'm lazy and prefer the shoot-and-clean method of breaking in a bore.  This is actually a burnishing process.  The benefit for me is watching the groups improve, while feeling the bore for rough spots, and of course shooting it.

One thing you MUST do to get the best the handi has to offer is to remember to pull through on the trigger.  If you try to shoot the handi trigger as you would shoot a fine, or even not-so-fine bolt gun, you will never get it to group.  This is due to the design of the transfer bar safety system.

But, you probably already know this stuff.

Offline quickdtoo

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2005, 05:18:18 PM »
No matter the method, the barrel must be broke in one way or another....you can speed the process up saving time and money by lapping the bore by methods stated in the FAQ or you can "burnish" the bore by just shooting it. Plan on 150-200 rounds or more using the shooting method, 50-100 rounds if you lap first. I prefer to polish(burnish) by hand and spend the money that I would have spent on powder, bullets and primers on another Handi or a scope for one I bought with the money I saved burnishing the last barrel!!! :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

And FWIW, burnish means to polish. :grin: Sorry Mark, I couldn't resist the opportunity!!

Tim

Quote
bur·nish (bûr'nĭsh)
tr.v., -nished, -nish·ing, -nish·es.

1.To make smooth or glossy by or as if by rubbing; polish.

2.To rub with a tool that serves especially to smooth or polish.
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline lostsniper308

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2005, 05:52:10 PM »
my Ultra still is laughing at me but i will prevail with that subborn rifle, after all if i sell it what use will my Nikon have? :)  that and i can't bring my self to sell many guns specially one as pretty as that ultra.
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OIF 08-09 out of the army now

Offline JPH45

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2005, 06:06:53 PM »
The 243 SuperLites are notorously poor groupers. As a truck gun goes though, just how well does the gun need to group? The real question may be how well does the gun put it's first shot in the same place everytime. As a hunter, I look at that as much if not more than how it shoots groups, particularly groups of greater than 3 shots. I have yet to find the best load for any gun in just a couple of days. Ihave spent as much a six months working with a Handi to find it's sweet spot, and I've seen it with the first load I fired through the gun. While my 38-55 shoots several loads well, there are several loads it doesn't shoot well. Just because a gun doesn't shoot well at first doesn't mean the gun is bad, nor does the first shots through it going less than an inch make it a great rifle.

I am currently working with my friends 243 using cast bullets. The rifle is scary accurate, I've done nothing but some trigger work, you only have to stand on it make it fire now. Meanwhile the best Ihave seen my 357 Max shoot at 100 yards is 2" (5 shots). It'll do that nearly on demand, and the first shot is always within 1" of POA, that is over 2.5 years, that's good accuracy. I can hit anything I wish out to 150 yards no questions asked. Groups are not the only measure of a rifles accuracy.
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Offline nofun1

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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2005, 06:54:17 PM »
Thanks guys for all the great tips Let me make some clarifications, I left out alot of detail because I shoot much better than I type. I started my handi addiction with a Hornet . It developed easily and than I got a 223 and it was also easy to dial in. When I got my 204 I was pretty much limmited to factory ammo because no brass was availablebut it shot great with Hornaday factory loads. Thats when my greif started I decide I wanted a "truck gun" that I could shoot out of my window. so I got a 243 superlight. I fought it for a long time and posted dozens of questions. Took it to 2 gunsmiths and than sent it to NEF. when I first got it back they said they fixed the lock mech. I got it back and shot a .36 CTC group and a .57CTC group I was tickled than the barrel lock started to act up again and it was hard to open after shooting, or sometimes it would pop open on its own. I followed all instructions given by NEF, I tried factory ammo and Handloads I got atleast 10 differant load sugestions off this board. I have lapped barrels, Ive floated and bedded, Ive done trigger work. Ive tried all the cleaning regimens that were suggested to me. My 270 I could shoot three and the first was somewhere on the paper the next two might be touching Than Id get a .75" group the next would be 4-6". It was the inconsistancy that drove me crazy. A 243 Handi is my dream truck gun but  they are driving me crazy.

Offline tallyho

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2005, 07:00:30 PM »
nofun1

As a Provocative Energy Coach, I see it as part of my professional duty to acknowledge your issue, support you with respect and solemnity in whatever decision you ultimately choose (if it be handicide - which is not yet a crime - so be it) and should you choose that as your final route, I see it as an obvious next step to make  the following reques:

I ask you to either send me a list (PM or email is fine) of what you wish to part with, or put them on the classifieds so we can all have a  chance  at  them... :grin:

Personally I am not yet a potential candidate for  handicide... though, like others on this forum, I belive I am in less danger of committing  (handicide), and in more danger of being committed ... as a 'handi-holic'.
:toast:

Cheers
Kerry

p.s. DIBS ON THE HORNET!!
DECEASED 6/6/2013

Offline quickdtoo

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2005, 07:07:39 PM »
Nofun1, check out the FAQ down towards the bottom of the page, Perklo has a nice treatment for an older wood stocked Superlight....

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Mac11700

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2005, 08:08:47 PM »
Quote
Thats when my greif started I decide I wanted a "truck gun" that I could shoot out of my window


Uhhhhhhh...dumb question...Is this legal to do?

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline warf73

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2005, 09:15:13 PM »
Expert I'm not, owning only 1 NEF/H&R in 223.

But all I did to mine was clean the living hell out of it inside and out.

First group was just under 1"(took 4 shots to get the scope zeroed) now after 500 rounds with my loads the rifle shoots 5 shot groups under 600".

The groups kept getting smaller and stabilized at around .580" after only 20 rounds fired threw the rifle.

Other than Flitzing the chamber the rifle is to factor specks. NO O ring or anything fancy.

Warf
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a jar of jalapenos.  What you do today, might burn
your ass tomorrow."

Offline Duce

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2005, 01:56:14 AM »
Nofun1: Don't take offense, this happen to me and I repaired firearms for a part-time income for 20-some years.  Anytime you have an accuracy  problem in a rifle, check your scope mounting. I bought a used .270 Handi that shot patterns rather than groups, found that the scope was loose!!!!!!! :eek:  :eek: Good Luck: <>< Duce:
What ever you'll put up with, is exactly what you'll get!!!!!

Offline myarmor

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2005, 02:04:05 AM »
Quote from: Mac11700
Quote
Thats when my greif started I decide I wanted a "truck gun" that I could shoot out of my window


Uhhhhhhh...dumb question...Is this legal to do?

Mac

 :) In my state it isn't(sorry missed that :oops: ). Unless you are handicapped-no pun intended.

Offline nofun1

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2005, 03:12:18 AM »
Thanks guys for all the responses. as to the window shooting question. where I live you are not allowed to game hunt from a vehicle and you sre not allowed to shoot from a maintained road. But if you are diving around the hills or on private property and come across a dog town or a coyote you can shoot it. So for those of you wondering I'm not a poacher.

Offline myarmor

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2005, 03:18:26 AM »
:agree: Thanks for the clarification :)  It's nice to have a truck gun, if not just to have something to shoot when out on your land and bored. I have a couple I made out of some Mosin Nagant M44 carbines. Can't hurt them, and no one cares if they get scratched up. Not to mention plenty of boom and cheap to boot. Ever thought of going this route for a truck gun?
I wish we could get a new Handi in 7.62X54R :(

Offline Wlscott

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What the ***DELETED*** !!!!!
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2005, 06:56:20 AM »
Quote from: Mac11700
Quote
Thats when my greif started I decide I wanted a "truck gun" that I could shoot out of my window


Uhhhhhhh...dumb question...Is this legal to do?

Mac


Ya gotta love it when people talk about breakin' the law on the internet 8)
You haven't hunted......Until you've hunted the hunters