trigger follow through

[nofun1]

OK, I'm willing to admit it might be me. I am having accuracy issues with most handis above 223. My 223 and down, all shoot great. My 243 up, I cant get good groups out of. I dont think its a flinching issue because I can shoot my bolt rifles upto 300 ultra just fine, heres my standard, 1.5" is accepatble and 1" makes me happy, these are assumming I can do it fairly consistantly. I am no competative shooter just a hunter and plinker. As some of you know I have been fighting 2 243's and a 270 alot so heres what I did. I traded them for a brand new 243 standard with new rings and scope. I cleaned it real good and shot it. about 2"-2.5" group I o-ringed the forestock. no signifigant change. than I lapped the barrel, and had a gunsmith do the trigger for me its now a very crisp 2.25lbs with no creep or overtravel. I havent shot this yet. Heres my question is trigger follow through more important on a handi than on a bolt gun? if so how do you shoot a handi differantly? are there any other things I should do differantlt on a handi to get good results?

[quickdtoo]

Because of the transfer bar which must be in the up position when the hammer strikes for the firing pin to be hit, it requires the shooter to pull the trigger fully to the rear at the shot instead of releasing pressure on the trigger as it breaks, as with other firearms. If you release the trigger as it breaks, the transfer bar drops and the impact on the firing pin is minimal and inconsistent pins strikes can result in inconsistent ignition which results in poor shot to shot accuracy.

Tim

[lostsniper308]

try practicing with your small bore rifles and get the musle memory down for the higher powered stuff. Im using my .17Sportster to polish my follow through on my .308.

[McLernon]

I've noticed the same thing. That is, my .223 Handi's accuracy suffers as a result of inconsistent ignition. My question is: to what extent does the presence of a hammer extension make it more difficult to deliver the proper trigger pull?

Since the presence of the extension adds to the lock time there is more time for the transfer bar to fall.  I've been told that a broken transfer bar can result from a stiffer hammer spring but it seems to me that if removal of the hammer extension helps matters(and my experience tells me it does) a stronger spring must decrease lock time and therefore make for less ignition related inaccuracy. So what is the best way to improve/fix the existing trigger/transfer/hammer system without causing other problems?

McL

[Lone Star]

Because the lock time on a Handi is considerably longer than on the typical bolt gun, any tiny movement of the rifle between hammer release and ignition is apt to expand group size.  Anything you can do to reduce rifle movement - including finger movement - will help grouping.  Lock time can be reduced by lightening the hammer; this is a popular mod on schuetzen rifles based on the Ruger No 1, where two 3/8" holes are drilled in the heavy hammer.  This can reduce hammer momentum, but on the pistol primers used in that sport it isn't an issue.

Follow through with hammer guns is essential - strive to make no movements between hammer release and ignition.

[quickdtoo]

I think the only cure for the transfer bar issue would be to eliminate it, but that would require some gunsmithing to modify the firing pin/hammer. Then, the drilling of the hammer and a stronger hammer spring would be the way to go to decrease lock time while maintaining pin strike force......I think!!

Tim

[cheatermk3]

Nofun1 said:
 "...and had a gunsmith do the trigger for me its now a very crisp 2.25lbs with no creep or overtravel."

How did he give you no overtravel?  

Was a trigger stop installed in the guard?  If so, get rid of it.

[mt3030]

nofun1,
Can you share the name and address of the gunsmith that did the trigger job for you?
Wally

[nofun1]

I dont know how he got rid of the over travel. But he said he normally wont work on Handis and he wont set them so light because of liability issues. He just did it for me as a favor. I will ask him how he eliminated the overtravel. If he tells me I'l post it.

[McLernon]

Hello Quick:

On the original posted subject the following question occurs to me: If I lighten the trigger pull on my Handi will it be easier or harder to avoid light transfer bar/firing pin strikes, all other things remaining the same?

Thanks

McL

[quickdtoo]

I think that if you cut too much off the trigger return spring, it could cause exactly that, you would really have to pull thru at the break, where if the pull weight was a bit heavier, you would automatically pull thru at the break. Seems to me either Raynor or Perklo mentioned this in their instructions...or it could have been Fred that did.

My question is if Nofun1's gunsmith did eliminate overtravel, how did it affect the transfer bar movement since the overtravel actuates it? No overtravel, no firing pin strike!! Kinda like dropping the hammer without the trigger pulled, which is what the transfer bar is designed to do.

Tim

[nofun1]

I havent shot it yet but the point is interesting, I will let you know after I test it

[McLernon]

Quick what you say makes sense. Between a very light and a very heavy trigger pull there must be an optimum pull to make it ergonomic with respect to avoiding drop of the transfer bar. My trigger came from the factory about right I think so I don't think I'll fiddle with it. Still interested in putting in a stronger latch spring in though. Do you know where I can get such an item?

Thanks

McL

[quickdtoo]

Still interested in putting in a stronger latch spring in though. Do you know where I can get such an item?

Thanks

McL

The latch spring info is in this thread...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=67524

I bought 4 of Fred's spring sets, have installed 2 of them, one in the .338-06 and the other in the 405 Winchester frame. They worked well in the .338-06 with a near max load and 230gr bullets.

Tim

[nofun1]

OK. I tested it and after examining it a little closer heres what I found; if I  clamp the gun in a vise and pull the trigger I can see but not feel a slight overtravel about 1.5mm (Estimated). I cant feel it, but I can see it. When I let off the trigger I can hear something clicking inside like something resetting the measured trigger pull is 2.17- 2.29 in 10 dry fires. when you fire a live round it gives the perception of no creep no overtraval and extremely crip break. I have not yet shot for accuracy but the firing is sweet

[Nightrain52]

The click you are hearing is the transfer bar dropping back down to normal or "no fire" position.

[mitchell]

here's my take on it . any body that has touch the trigger on my 204 ruger has loved it and i have shot some small groups with that gun.  now maybe  its just me but i'm able to follow through more with my light triggered 204 then my heavy triggered 06 . when people start shooting with a hard trigger they start jerking the trigger and groups start getting bigger.

[quickdtoo]

The jerk behind the trigger always causes poor groups!!!!  :eek:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Tim

[Fred M]

Both Handis and all other rifles I have, have 24oz triggers except my BR rifles have 1.5oz triggers.

In both Handis I have installed lighter trigger return springs they just return the trigger there is practically no weight for the trigger to return.
This of course also reduces the pull weight by whatever you take off the return spring.

To achieve a follow through in the Handis I use the first joint of my trigger finger instead of the finger tip. This will give you a more unconscious release and shortens the finger travel. This is also the mode to fire revolvers in double action because it gives the best follow through, which is very important for a smooth let off in a revolver without jerking.

The idea of using your first joint is to bring your trigger finger closer to the trigger for more mechanical advantage. It also removes the distance of the fat finger tip for faster lock time, since the fat finger tip has to be compressed first before the trigger moves.

We are talking mili seconds delays, in a pistol or revolver it is quit noticeable. With the transfer bar on a Handi its the only way for better trigger control and groups.  The lock time on a Handi is not all that bad even with the extension on it. I never had any trouble with that. The trouble is mostly mental.

Trying to remove the transfer bar would require a complete redesign of the  hammer to a rebounding one and a half cock and an inertia firing pin.
This would be nice but much more costly, besides the lawyers would not like it