Author Topic: marlin 917vs troubles (Read 2778 times)

mjbgalt · « **on:** August 01, 2005, 04:35:24 PM »

its my birthday and today i bought myself a new marlin 917vs.

i got a bushnell dusk and dawn 3.5-10x36 scope for it which i really liked. i mounted it. well heres the trouble. the holes for the mounts were drilled crooked and the scope points off to the right of the gun.

i took the gun to the range thinking i could adjust the scope enough to make the holes problem irrelevant and find that the reticle doesnt move when i click for windage or elevation. when i tried to boresight it by removing the bolt and centering my target in the bore, i found that my scope was off to the right about two feet at only 25 yards!!! cmon now i think a new gun should at least be able to be ON PAPER in two shots or so. i ran it out of adjustment clicks to the left but the crosshairs didnt move. the b-square rings the guy at Gander Mountain said were "cheap" turned out to just that, cheap. not two minutes into mounting this scope the little screws stripped out and the hex key rounded everything off. i was a little less than pleased with this.

so now i have a faulty scope and the holes are cockeyed. i tried to fill the clip with ammo and it only will hold 6, not 7 like the book says. so overall i like the looks of the gun but please tell me they are generally of better quality than THIS.

my new toy is beginning to be more annoying than fun.

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 01, 2005, 04:48:41 PM »

Matt,

Are the holes in the action off center or are the holes in the bases off center? Both have been reported at RFC. If it's the bases, rotate one of em 180º, then installed it. Place a long straight edge against one side of the bases and compare it with the centerline of the barrel, there shouldn't be any runout towards the muzzle. You can also install the screws without the bases and use a straight edge on the screws to see if the holes are drilled off center. If it turns out to be bad bases, Weaver #16 bases will fit, are nicer than the Marlin bases. If the mount holes are off center, you can use Burris Signature Zee rings with the offset insert kit, or use dovetail rimfire rings on the dovetail in the action.

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #2 on:** August 01, 2005, 04:57:31 PM »

are the dovetail rings as solid? i got the impression they werent.

it appears that the holes are crooked because one points the scope one way and the other points the other way.

this and the clip issue really make me P.O. considering i plunked down almost $300 for this gun.

if i wanted a project i would have bought a handi.

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:19:21 PM »

Happy Birthday to you, Matt!!!! Sorry, was gonna add that when I got done typing, and forgot. A good set of rimfire rings like BKL are considered a very good choice by a good share of RFC members.....and they're a GBO sponsor, too!! I think you said you had been reading at RFC, didn't you?? There are a bunch of threads on misaligned bases and mounting holes, there. You also have the option of returning it to Marlin for repair. I have a 917V and a 917VS, both are perfect, no defects. You shoulda asked me about it, I would have told ya to check it out before you took delivery on it..... :cry:

The 7 shot clip is as with most clips, 6 in the mag, 1 in battery. I never put more than 5 in mine, in fact, I plan on cutting my mags down so they're flush, then only 4 will fit in the mag. You may also experience feed problems with the mag, just push forward on the mag when it's installed to change the angle of the mag guide a little. You can also tighten the mag on the guide by squeezing the track on the mag a little in a vise or using vise grips. If you want to improve the trigger, let me know, I have a couple options for ya there....

Tim

www.bkltech.com

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:23:24 PM »

PS, don't feel bad, you coulda spent over $400 on a Ruger 77/17 and still had to tinker and spend a bunch more money to get it to shoot good!!! :eek: You'll find that at RFC, too!! The next best step up tween the 917VS and Ruger, is the CZ452 American or Varmint, at about $320-$360. Nice mini mauser action, great wood, so-so trigger, but it can be fixed for $15-$70....I have an American, very nice rifle!!!

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:25:38 PM »

The #253 and #261 are the most popular at RFC for the 917XX, IIRC...

http://bkltech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BKL&Category_Code=200

Sorry, being lexdysic!!!

mjbgalt · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:26:19 PM »

well i just played with it a bit and got 7 in it. it says "seven shot clip, one in the chamber" in my paperwork.

i did check it out in the store but you cant exactly load the clip or install the mounts or use a ruler to check the holes lol. i mean i was going to have em do the mounting but it was packed in there and they said it would be an hour.

so for all i COULD inspect it was fine.

apparently i got a spring that needs broken in....i am leaving the rounds in the clip overnight to see if it wont soften the spring a bit. (?)

and no its not in the gun while loaded, before i get hate mail on here.

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:30:09 PM »

really annoys me that i would HAVE to do one thing or another. if the manufacturers were doing their jobs it would come out of the box ready to go.

my savage 17 was perfect.

i just liked the looks of the marlin better and since i dont have the savage anymore i thought i would get the marlin and see what happened.

well i see what happened :?

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:30:37 PM »

It's not hard to take the clip apart, you could take just a smidge off the spring to lighten it a tad.

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:43:57 PM »

eh thats part of my mental makeup...if it SAYS 7, whether i NEED 7 or not, i will be ticked because i PAID for 7 lol.

as for the trigger, if i ever get to the point of actually shooting it i will see. as for now i have an hour and a half round trip to return the rings and scope tomorrow after work. i will be missing shooting time for it and thats what bugs me the most.

oh well. i got a pretty new toy and i guess i should just stop complaining and just have fun.

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:45:06 PM »

Here's the shortened mag thread...

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6751&highlight=Shortened+Magazines

And the trigger shim...

http://imageevent.com/richinva/marlin917vs

And the best price on the Rifle Basix trigger...

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00213MAR917

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #11 on:** August 01, 2005, 05:51:51 PM »

excellent, thanks to the aptly-named Quick.

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #12 on:** August 02, 2005, 02:53:31 PM »

drove almost an hour to take back the rings and scope that didnt work.
they got their truck in today and had a 4-12x40 on the shlef at the same price as the one i took back. i got it. not a bad idea, more power, same price. i bought millet rings at the gunsmiths advice and when i said "but i have a 40mm scope" he said "should be fine."

i got home. guess what. not fine. dont fit, just like i told him.

so i called Gander Mountain and spoke with a manager about it and she said she would send me a gift card to make up for my trouble.

in the meantime i remembered i had a 3-9x32 on my encore .204 and since i can shoot way way way further with it, i decided to use the 12 power scope on it instead. i wanted to use the weaver mounts but remembered i couldnt since the marlin's holes are crooked. ARGHHHH!!! so i used the millets with the 32mm scope on the 917vs and used the weaver with the 40mm scope on the encore.

so i switched rings and scopes until i had a permutation that fit and now i have both guns with scopes.

still waiting on Gander...i am supposed to get a call tomorrow from the store manager.

lets see how they handle this.

i dont think i have ever been this frustrated with a new gun ever. this has been a big pain in the butt. this thing better shoot bugs at 300 yards for the trouble its been lol

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** August 02, 2005, 03:06:56 PM »

Matt, I'm sorry for the pain you're going thru, I almost feel guilty cuz I've known about the mount hole/base alignment issue for about a year or so now.....Medium burris sig zees with the offset insert kit will solve the problem and protect the scope......the Millett rings can kill a scope if mounted improperly if ya got the angle-locs. These are both 6-20x40 Bushnell Scopechiefs, one is mounted in mediums and the other (917V in back) is mounted in high sig zees, it had a 50mm scope on it originally.

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #14 on:** August 02, 2005, 03:53:27 PM »

these millets are just plain jane rimfire rings. not angle loc or whatever. they are windage adjustable, first time i have seen that. kinda neat.

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** August 02, 2005, 04:53:18 PM »

The windage adustable are the ones that will kill a scope if they aren't aligned perfectly, you need an alignment tool to align them to each other, then they need to be lapped. The Burris signature rings avoid that, cost a bit more, but are worth it to me. None of my scopes have ring marks which increases their value if I decide to sell em, but the biggest benefit is the won't damage a scope internally,

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=227261

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #16 on:** August 02, 2005, 05:30:19 PM »

this would fall under the "why the heck didnt anyone ever tell me this when i bought them" category.

i cannot imagine the "recoil" from a .17hmr destroying a scope?

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #17 on:** August 02, 2005, 05:34:11 PM »

as far as i could tell, when i put the rings on, they look to be damn close to the same. they may not be perfect, and i am sure they aren't, but it cant with the naked eye, see a problem. they look like each side is sticking out the exact same amount. they were cinched tight when i got em and i opened both to the same size when putting them on the dovetail at the same time.

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 02, 2005, 05:54:31 PM »

Recoil isn't the issue, the windage adjustment can bend the scope tube if they aren't aligned on the same axis when you tighten the ring caps.

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #19 on:** August 02, 2005, 05:59:54 PM »

well whats done is done because i alread tightened em.

hopefully i didnt do any damage.

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #20 on:** August 02, 2005, 06:07:06 PM »

i checked it by centering it on a lightswitch on my wall and it adjusts fine and its also now boresighted

thanks to whomeever taught me to do that, i forget who but i am sure it was someone on here.

ps hey quick, is it ok to dry fire this? the savage i had, you could dry fire it with no damage per their instructions. what about this one?
-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** August 02, 2005, 06:13:53 PM »

I learned the hard way with the Millett rings, ruined a perfectly good cheap Tasco WC....fortunetly!! I included it with a '91 mauser I sold to sweeten the deal, it worked even after I told em the scope was screwed up, they still wanted it. I'm just glad it wasn't one of my good scopes and I learned before I used em on one of em!!! :roll:

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #22 on:** August 02, 2005, 06:24:23 PM »

well this is a cheap tasco too but its fine it seems.

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** August 02, 2005, 06:32:28 PM »

I wouldn't recommend fry firing any rimfire unless the mfr states it's ok. 2 things can happen....1...it will peen the edge of the chamber causing extraction problems and 2...ruin the firing pin. Just put a spent cartridge case in the chamber and let er fly, replace in when it gets too beat up. You can also get 22LR snap caps that will work fine, Traditions makes em, about $2 a package.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2005, 06:37:19 PM »

If the scope is a big game scope and you shoot it at 50yds, your not gonna get the best groups cuz of parallax error, so don't be disappointed if that happens. Your groups should be 1"-1½" at 100yds for the first 150-300 rounds or so then improve unless you lap the bore first. Sometimes out of the box will be better, but not usually, all of mine took a good break in before providing the best accuracy. Hornaday 17gr Vmax would be my first choice of ammo, if any will well, the odds are it will. Next would be Federal Vmax. I wouldn't buy a lot of ammo at first, a box of each to start, then when you find one that shoots good, try to get more of the same lot number.

Tim

mjbgalt · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2005, 06:45:31 PM »

my savage 93r17 was like that...took a few shots to get it shooting well and it liked being dirty.

i dont like to lap the bores of my guns with flitz like some do because i saw an interview by a guy who made custom barrels for a living (like $1000 barrels) and he said specifically that its a bad idea because its like a knife blade...the rifling starts out very sharp and precise and its designed to shoot well throughout the life of the barrel and get a good grip on the bullet, but when you polish it with flitz or whatever you use, it "wears" the rifling and makes it dull and basically its the same as shooting a few hundred rounds and youre just taking useable life off your barrel, not breaking it in.

this is what he said. the guy knows more about this stuff than i do and he made a heck of a lot of money doing what he did. so i am going to follow his advice until someone shows me i am wrong.

so i usually shoot mine to "break it in" and what youre describing is pretty much how my first HMR was.

i like this gun a heck of a lot and its exactly what i wanted....a high quality bad weather gun for varmints.

the scope is a plain old nothing-special tasco 3-9x32 and i am pretty sure it isnt a rimfire scope, which is fine because i didnt want a rimfire scope for this gun, its capable of so much more.

-Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2005, 07:03:27 PM »

Read and heed... :wink:

http://www.jarheadtop.com/article_finalfinish.html

I have lapped every one of my H&R rifle bores, all 22 of em, plus my Marlins and CZ, they all shoot excellent. Read up on JB Non-embedding bore compound, it's a little less abrasive than flitz or any metal polish, and I use the term abrasive very loosely, it's anything but!!

Be sure to use a bore guide when cleaning if you use a rod, the throat of a 17hmr is pretty tiny and a rod will soon damage it if used improperly. I use a Patchworm on mine, I feel that the .17 cal rods are just too thin and flex too much, even with a bore guide....

Tim

http://www.varmintal.com/ashot.htm#Break

www.patchworm.com

mjbgalt · « **Reply #27 on:** August 03, 2005, 03:09:10 PM »

ok gander took care of me. a great guy too...the manager and i went over the events and me being told incorrectly and etc and the fact that i made two extra trips and all...he left me a $25 gift card!!

i would say that more than makes up for anything bad i experienced. i will definitely be doing more business with them.

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #28 on:** August 03, 2005, 03:17:13 PM »

i shot 36 shots today zeroing it and playing around. i like it but i am getting like an inch and a half gto 2" groups...not the shooting holes in dimes crap you guys do. mind you this is off a bench but just rested on an old coat and not in a vise or anything.

would i do better with a different brand maybe?

and yes this trigger is horrid. is there a way to fix this one or do i have to buy the timney or rifle basix?

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #29 on:** August 03, 2005, 03:54:46 PM »

i am going to gander tomorrow so i will pick up a box of each kind and see what does best in my gun.

-Matt