Author Topic: 204 caliber (Read 3381 times)

floridaboy · « **on:** August 05, 2005, 05:56:00 PM »

I have a 22-250 and it is capable of shooting at very long distances. I was told the 204 is very accurate and fast and very capable of long range shots. If any of you own a 204. How do they shoot? Is it worth buying the gun?
Thanks, Kevin

warf73 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2005, 11:55:44 PM »

In a word YES

I've shot many Pdogs at 400 yards with my 204.

Went on the OK Pdog shoot in June and shot dogs from 35 yards-400+. 200-350yard shots being run of the mill squeeze the trigger and knowing the targer will be parted out :grin:

The biggest plus I feal the 204 has on the 22-250 is you can see impacts(Pdog vapor).

Just my $0.02 worth

Warf

jro45 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2005, 07:40:11 AM »

I own the 22-250 Rem and would not replace it with any other rifle, but I've heard some good things about the 204.

Ramrod · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:08:58 PM »

I see it as a decent choice for a guy who does not own a varmint gun, or as an upgrade from a .223, but not a practical replacement for a .22-250. With bullet choices ranging from 40-70 grains, the .22-250 is much more versitile.

floridaboy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2005, 05:15:06 PM »

Thanks for the replies everyone.
Kevin

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2005, 02:19:52 AM »

I would not even consider the 204 over my 22-250. :wink:

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2005, 03:58:12 AM »

Quote from: floridaboy

I have a 22-250 and it is capable of shooting at very long distances. I was told the 204 is very accurate and fast and very capable of long range shots. If any of you own a 204. How do they shoot? Is it worth buying the gun?
Thanks, Kevin

First ditto to Redhawks reply,

I do not own a .204 but have shot them plenty.

"accurate" - First at the range. They are as a whole less accurate than a 22-250. Many 22-250's are at the .5 or less (5x5) 5 shot, 5 times at 100. Few .204's are at .5. For factory varmint rifles .5 is the measure and at 400 yards it is appreciated.
Second distance, I prefer 55 grain bullets for long range accuracy in a varmint rifle. Along with this come's more long range killing power than lighter bullets. If you really want to step up one from a 22-250 for long range accuracy I would go upin caliber to a .243 rather than down in caliber to a .204

"fast" - That it is.

I do not mean to pick on the .204, I just feel that for my area "woodchucks and Eastern Coyote's along with R & G range shooting it's not as accurate nor lethal at distance.

I have not seen impact hit's with the .204 either. The .204's I have shot have powerful scopes (like a 22-250) and I use the power (smaller field of view). There is enough kick with my light grip for accuracy that it moves enough. I keep my left hand off the rifle when shooting from a pod or bench my right hand, cheek and shoulder are lightly touching. If you open up the field of view I am sure you can. I don't live in the dessert where mirrage happens at high power. Here I can shoot at 20 power all day, all year.

Barrel life ussually comes up with the swift or 22-250. If you don't shoot comp. bench (yes, many use the 22-250 for 300 yard varmint class unlike the .204) have a quality varmint barrel, shoot molly bullets, wait 1 minute between shots, mostly hunt and shoot range some, and use 50-55 grain quality ammo a 22-250 will go over 5000 rounds or out live you easy, before it opens up a little.

On paper the .204 is supposed to last longer because of less powder..........time will tell(the .17hmr was supposed to be built & made for coyote's also). One thing is for sure 4000 fps is smoke'in and the 1-12 .204 factory barrel twist will not shoot a 50 grain.

For my .2 cents worth. The fur getters will stick with the .17 reminton. Some praire dog'ers will switch to .204 few groundhog'ers will, few coyote hunters will switch from the 22-250 & .223's. Few varmint class bench factory 300 shooters will switch from the 22-250, 243 & swifts. Several varmint rifle collectors (rifle whore's ....grin) will buy one.

As a tack driving 22-250 long range one shot kill any varmint & predator owner I feel the 220 swift is really the king of king's. But, because of availabilty and nearly same ballistics the 22-250 is king. The .204 and .17hmr have been good for shooting but, the .17hmr does not out do a .22 mag and the .204 is not even in the same class as a 22-250. If and when they come up with a long range varmint rifle that shoots 50-60 grain ammo flat'er than a 22-250, with barrel life of a .223, shoots .5 or less groups and is ready available along with ammo. I will switch from a 22-250.

I do not think you need more than one rifle for all varmint hunting and fun range shooting. Show me one better than the 22-250 ? :-)

aulrich · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2005, 05:59:24 AM »

Woodchuck

I am not sure but you must have run into a raft of dud rifles. Because inherent accuracy seems to be a common thread from just about every one else who has shot the round ( My handi !! does under .5 with the best group being .35"). Go to www.rugerhunting.com to see some reports. As with all rounds there were some guns tha did not shoot all bullets well (40 gr hornady was the usual suspect).

Is it a replacement for 22-250, it depends on what use for. For me the gun is for PD's and coyotes (mostly called in), so since it shoots about as flat as the 250 and burns 1/3 less powder i is cheaper to shoot and has better barrel life). And if the berger heads, tha i just got do the job on coyotes like the 17 cal version (fur frindly and still kills well) then fo me it is a resounding yes it does replace the 22-250.

warf73 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2005, 08:58:09 PM »

Now it begins the Great 204 vs. 22-250 debate:-D :-D

I love my 204 I also shoot a 223 and I have a 22-250 on the way.

If these 3 rifles won't kill a Pdog or Yotey then I'll pull out the .460WBY and turn them into RED VAPOR. A 300gr. HP is very nasty medicine.

Warf

tuck2 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2005, 06:41:40 PM »

I have a 17 Rem, 204 Ruger , 22 Hornet ,221 Fireball, 223 Rem ,22-250 and 220 Swift rifles. Except the for the 22 Hornet and 221 Fireball the others will do in yots and prairie dogs at 300 Yds, plus. The only good varmint rifles are ones that will put five round into 3/4 inch groups or less at 100 Yds. My 204 R will shoot 4/10 th inch five groups at 100 Yds while the 22-250 is a 6/10 th inch five shot group rifle at 100 Yds. The 220 Swift will do 1/2 inch five shot groups. The 204 is used on prairie dogs while the 22-250 and 220 are used for yotes ,except when the pelts are to be saved then the 17 Rem is used. The 204 with the 32 Gr bullet will be tried on yotes this comming winter. -- I don`t know which is the better round ,the 204 Ruger or the 22-250. May be the best varmint round is the 223 Winchester SS Mag - darn I don`t have one.

Maxd · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2005, 04:06:58 PM »

It would be a tough call for me to say which is best, I am kind of in there with tuck2 but my 221 is necked down to a 17 cal. The 204 has impressed me a lot. The older I get, the less muzzle blast I like. My swift is killing machine out there a very long ways, the 22-250 is not far behind it. I got a .204 and wasn't all that excited but interested..... WOW is all I can say about it....to those that haven't tried it, it is a viable calibre..

Although...ya gotta enjoy them all!!!!!!

Buckskin · « **Reply #11 on:** August 15, 2005, 08:36:44 AM »

Quote

"accurate" - First at the range. They are as a whole less accurate than a 22-250. Many 22-250's are at the .5 or less (5x5) 5 shot, 5 times at 100. Few .204's are at .5. For factory varmint rifles .5 is the measure and at 400 yards it is appreciated.
Second distance, I prefer 55 grain bullets for long range accuracy in a varmint rifle. Along with this come's more long range killing power than lighter bullets. If you really want to step up one from a 22-250 for long range accuracy I would go upin caliber to a .243 rather than down in caliber to a .204

What a bunch of whooie. I really don't have time to completely reiterate this topic again so I will ask all of you interested to check out the thread of "which 22-250 to get", posted in this column. Some interesting stuff there. We really beat this one to death. And of course its woodchucker starting all the junk again.

The 22-250 is certainly not more accurate than the 204. But the 22-250 IS slower, more drift, more recoil, more powder burned, and more drop at long distances. More is not always better.

Lawdog · « **Reply #12 on:** August 15, 2005, 12:27:51 PM »

My only question is how the .204 Ruger is when considering pelt damage on called in critters - Fox, Coyotes & Bobcats? Comparing the .204 Ruger to .22 Hornet in this category. Lawdog

oso45-70 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2005, 04:17:33 AM »

lawdog

The 204 is more distructive than either the 17rem or the hornet, Out at 100yds the 204 is not too bad, But you will get some blow throughs. The 204 is ok, it has some good features but falls short on long distance yote shots. Theres no doubt the 204 kill them but out at long distance they some times run off to die and i don't care for this. This is a never ending discussion and theres going to be lots of feed back. But to ansew your question, If one of the predators come in to a call and you shoot it with a 204 you will probably have pelt damage.............Joe........

Buckskin · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2005, 04:52:04 AM »

The 2 yotes that I have shot with my 204 have been over 350 yards. Both had little pelt damage and droped like stones. On the first dog, I could hardly tell if the enterance hole was a tick bite or bullet hole. That one was shot in the neck and never felt a thing. It did exit, and was about the size of the 20 cal slug. In my opinion, much kinder than a 22-250 on pelts.

aulrich · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2005, 04:59:47 AM »

Lawdog

there is just not enough data out there on fur friendliness out there yet. The problem is sutable bullets the current best bet is the 35 gr Berger, but there were only a few guys ussing them last winter. Also there are some rumblings that nosler is getting into the game and I think the fur hunters let them know the want a bullet so we will see what happens there.

For now I still think 17rem it the king of fur friendly predator calling rounds even though I own a 204. But there are plenty of good rounds out there that will do the job just fine. I think this winter will tell the tail, i'll probably start calling in about 20 months or so i'll report back

Lawdog · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2005, 11:42:40 AM »

Quote from: aulrich

Lawdog

there is just not enough data out there on fur friendliness out there yet. The problem is sutable bullets the current best bet is the 35 gr Berger, but there were only a few guys ussing them last winter. Also there are some rumblings that nosler is getting into the game and I think the fur hunters let them know the want a bullet so we will see what happens there.

Thanks 'aulrich', that's kind of what I though. When the value of a pelt gets cut due to bullet damage by the fur buyer it always makes one look for a less damaging cartridge. Depending on the weather I won't start calling until mid to late October. My son has purchased a Savage M12(left handed) in .204 so I will be helping to work on some loads with him. I'll have to keep a watch on what Nosler brings out for the .204. Thanks again. Lawdog

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2005, 05:00:03 AM »

The 22-250 is certainly not more accurate than the 204. But the 22-250 IS slower, more drift, more recoil, more powder burned, and more drop at long distances. More is not always better.[/quote]

Buckskin,

Good one my varmint "get'r" friend :-D ("More is not always better")

Except You did forget one....

More - Killing power

Of course you like to run your ballistics using a 40 grain 22-250, rather than a 55 grain for the 1-14 factory twist barrel.......which everyone shoots. Or the 55 and up for the factory 1-12 twist barrel .......aka, Savage (they sell just a few rifles.........hey).

However It certainly is nice to have such a broad range of ammo (40 to 70 grains) and bullets (35-80) along with factory twist rates available for the well balanced 22-250. To give us 250 shooter's anything from accuracy and coyote killing power at 300- 500 yards in medium and heavier grains to cheap ammo and light grains for saving fur or punching paper at 100.

It's hard to beat a .17 Rem. for fur
It's hard to beat a .223 for ammo
It's hard to beat a .204 for one rifle praire dogs.
and
It's hard to beat a 22-250 for everything

:-D (but, you new .204 shooters sure try )

It fit's right in there but, you guys thinking it's the long distance king because of speed better look at your charts again. Not to mention having enough power to kill something besides a praire dog(and I could show you post's of some of them making it to the hole at 350-400) once it gets there and penetrate first rather than splat first.

Oh.......did I mention accuracy already :twisted: Other than a couple of factory rifles(Ruger target for one), most at the club are still trying to "tweak'em" under a 1" for a 5 , 5 shot group average. Boy........they heat up more than the manufacture's "pitch" said they would ........hey. Can't imagine why at 4000 fps

BTW- When you owners of the new .204 get off your high horse of "it's better than a 22-250........everywhere" and it's "Better than this and that too". I will get off mine...........then we will just go shoot varmints.

Don't worry your .204 is not going anywhere, it's a keeper...........so you will be able to get your ammo still in 5-10 years.

Oh........and this "more recoil"(big deal) it's only a 22-250........get some shoulders will ya (grin). I can't see the impact while shooting a .204 unless I am way down on 12 power or less(of course I don't use a death grip either). Not what I use for long distance woodchuck snipeing..............more like 20 power. But, yes the .204 does have less noise, along with a annoying high pitch muzzle blast, that reminds me of fingernails on a chalkboard.

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2005, 05:38:54 AM »

Brother Buckskin,

Because you like to cut and past articles so much about the benefits of the new .204

Here is one just for you.

http://www.gun-tests.com/pub/16_6/features/5169-1.html

It is the only "test" I have seen which compares the new .204 and 22 wssm to the old dog 22-250. Guess which one they still list as "king"?

I know how you like to post this kind of stuff, so I thought you would enjoy it. :wink:

To varmint rifle collector's and and avid small bore shooters, I apologize.

Lawdog · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2005, 08:52:18 AM »

Quote from: Woodchuck Sniper

Brother Buckskin,

Because you like to cut and past articles so much about the benefits of the new .204

Here is one just for you.

http://www.gun-tests.com/pub/16_6/features/5169-1.html

It is the only "test" I have seen which compares the new .204 and 22 wssm to the old dog 22-250. Guess which one they still list as "king"?

I know how you like to post this kind of stuff, so I thought you would enjoy it. :wink:

To varmint rifle collector's and and avid small bore shooters, I apologize.

Well the Technical Editor, Ray Ordorica, for Gun-Tests.com might think that the .22-250 still reigns as something in the .224 varmint cartridge world but I dont know what it could be. Sales/Popularity goes to the .223 Remington. Velocity goes to the .223 WSSM. Not saying the ..22-250 isnt a great cartridge because it is. It just doesnt reign as anything except to the owners/shooters of the .22-250. Lawdog

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2005, 12:23:52 PM »

Quote from: Lawdog

Quote from: Woodchuck Sniper
Brother Buckskin,

Because you like to cut and past articles so much about the benefits of the new .204

Here is one just for you.

http://www.gun-tests.com/pub/16_6/features/5169-1.html

It is the only "test" I have seen which compares the new .204 and 22 wssm to the old dog 22-250. Guess which one they still list as "king"?

I know how you like to post this kind of stuff, so I thought you would enjoy it. :wink:

To varmint rifle collector's and and avid small bore shooters, I apologize.

Well the Technical Editor, Ray Ordorica, for Gun-Tests.com might think that the .22-250 still reigns as something in the .224 varmint cartridge world but I dont know what it could be. Sales/Popularity goes to the .223 Remington. Velocity goes to the .223 WSSM. Not saying the ..22-250 isnt a great cartridge because it is. It just doesnt reign as anything except to the owners/shooters of the .22-250. Lawdog

Aaah sorry Lawdog (BTW no beef with you) but the "velocity" went to the 22-250 over the .204 and .223 wssm. Not to mention the .223 wssm shot from a Browning A Bolt was least accurate. The velocity for the .204 came in less than published by Hornady, while the 22-250 was on the mark.
Rifles
22-250 Savage 12 BVVS
.204 Ruger 77 Mark 3 KM77VT
.223 WSSM Browning A-Bolt 2 Hunter

Chronograph Data @ 10'
22-250 Hornady 40 grain V-Mav Moly - 4152 fps
.204 Hornady 32 Grain V-Max - 4060 fps
.223 WSSM Winchester 55 grain 3620 fps
and again the
22-250 Winchester 55 grain 3603

The 22-250 also shot the best group .4 and shot 40- 55 grain factory loads...........all tight. I wish they would have used some 60 grainers.....oh well.

The .204 Ruger shot a very good best group of .6 with the 32 grain (like I have said that Ruger .204 target can shoot unlike other .204's I see.)

The .223 WSSM was over 1" with all ammo 2 - 55's and 1- 64 grain.

Then you get into the kill power, shooting large range of grain ammo accurate, distance, available ammo, bullets, bench rest,proven...........you know all that stuff and it's easy to see The King Still Lives.

But hey the collectors have something new and it brought interest to small bores again.

Sorry............

I agree about the .223

Woodchuck Sniper · « **Reply #21 on:** August 17, 2005, 12:25:22 PM »

Why do varmint shooters target the 22-250 ? Must be it's the standard from which to judge.......

aulrich · « **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2005, 05:10:35 PM »

Quote

Why do varmint shooters target the 22-250 ?

Good question since it's neither the fastest of the.22 cals 220 swift nor the most accurate 22 ppc. :grin:

One ammendment to your list but the 204 does not shine until the 40 grain loads come out. While I have shot things at 10 feet you need to stretch things out a bit Here is a little chart (online ballistic calculator from reloading.com)

compare with 200 yard zero

   204    22-250
   40 gr hornady   40 Hornady 204 - 250
bc .275 bc .200
   3700    4100    diff
100   0.87    0.69    0.18
200   0    0    0
300   -4.97    -4.68    0.29
400   -15.2    -14.97    0.23
500   -32.21    -33.32    -1.11
600   -58.11    -63.6    -5.49

Not bad for ~7 grains of powder less and a few thousand more rounds of barrel life. @ 55 grains the .22 caliber bullets just about have the same bc as the 204 but then they start out @ 3600 not 3700.

Lawdog · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2005, 10:16:20 AM »

Woodchuck Sniper,

Quote

Aaah sorry Lawdog (BTW no beef with you) but the "velocity" went to the 22-250 over the .204 and .223 wssm. Not to mention the .223 wssm shot from a Browning A Bolt was least accurate.

Chronograph Data @ 10'
22-250 Hornady 40 grain V-Mav Moly - 4152 fps
.204 Hornady 32 Grain V-Max - 4060 fps
.223 WSSM Winchester 55 grain 3620 fps
and again the 22-250 Winchester 55 grain 3603

Why dont we keep everything equal here. The powder capacity of the .22-250 is 45 grains, the .220 Swift is 48 grains and the .223 WSSM is 56.5 grains. The article states that the .22-250 shoots a 40 gr. V-Max Moly at 4,152 fps.(which is very close to max) and while there is no factory load for a 40 gr. bullet, YET, my favorite load for a 40 gr. Ballistic Tip gives 4,407 fps.(which is far from max). My favorite load for the old .220 Swift gives 4,338 fps. using the 40 gr. V-Max Moly(also less than max). I am sorry but of the factory .22 centerfires the .223 WSSM is the new King, sending the .220 Swift back to second place. As far as accuracy goes my M70 Coyote first sight in group was just under 3/4 and now after load work shoots under 1/2 all day. I have never said the .22-250 isnt a great cartridge, it is, but it isnt the King of anything. Sales of rifles/ammo goes to the .223 Rem. Velocity goes to the .223 WSSM. Overall accuracy may be close between all .22 centerfires but from the records at different turkey shoots held the .223 Rem. gets the nod. Dont put to much credence in articles printed. Most times theyre prejudice one way or another. Lawdog

Ramrod · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2005, 12:54:08 PM »

Lawdog, please don't take offence, but after reading your posts on this thread, I think you are guilty of the polititian's tactic of lying with facts. Yes the .223 leads in ammo sales, but you know as well as anyone that the vast majority of that ammo sold is FMJ military stuff. Hardly what is being used by varmint hunters. And yes, the .223 WSSM is "faster" than the .22-250, but almost no one actually owns one. The "faster" .220 Swift has been factory loaded for decades before the .22-250, and still has no real popularity. Get off the internet, and off the "Old Boys Club" range once in a while. Go out into the fields, and see what the experianced, serious, varmint hunters use. The .22-250 is still king.

hunt127588 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:15:54 PM »

Whew, it's gettin' hot in here. C'mon guys, dead is dead whether it's from .223, .22-250 or .204. We can talk math all day but I'm sure most of you have had that perfect unexplained shot where the animal acted like nothing happened and took off. You also may have had those miracle shots where you knew the chips were down but you still made the shot and was successful. Stop the bickering and enjoy your stick. The one you are most confident with is the best for you. Period.

aulrich · « **Reply #26 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:35:31 PM »

True enough

But sometimes it's fun to split hairs :-D

Funner still to split that hair while it is center on the chest of a prime coyote.

I tell you i just may go wiggy before that happens.

Lawdog · « **Reply #27 on:** August 19, 2005, 09:54:09 AM »

Quote from: Ramrod

Lawdog, please don't take offence, but after reading your posts on this thread, I think you are guilty of the polititian's tactic of lying with facts. Yes the .223 leads in ammo sales, but you know as well as anyone that the vast majority of that ammo sold is FMJ military stuff. Hardly what is being used by varmint hunters. And yes, the .223 WSSM is "faster" than the .22-250, but almost no one actually owns one. The "faster" .220 Swift has been factory loaded for decades before the .22-250, and still has no real popularity. Get off the internet, and off the "Old Boys Club" range once in a while. Go out into the fields, and see what the experianced, serious, varmint hunters use. The .22-250 is still king.

Ramrod,

Actually I am talking about factory ammo sales and not military. Way to hard to keep track of that due to all the imported military stuff. As far as but almost no one actually owns one is far from the truth. The .223 WSSM is selling very well according to the folks at Winchester. They have had to back order the .223 WSSM a few times as they were unable to keep up with the demand. The .220 Swift never gained in popularity due to it being hung with the tag of a barrel burner and you know it if you know anything about the Swift.

Quote

Get off the internet, and off the "Old Boys Club" range once in a while. Go out into the fields, and see what the experianced, serious, varmint hunters use. The .22-250 is still king.

First I spend less time on the internet than most here. Less than an hour a day(my clients won't let me be alone long enough to stay on longer). Second I am at our range three or more days a week(6 or more hours each time) and I talk to many of the local varmint hunters and the King of the cartridge they use is the .223 Remington except for the Pelt Hunters and then the .22 Hornet and the .221 Fireball are tied for the King of the cartridges used by them. Maybe in your area of the country the .22-250 is the so called King in your opinion but your area isnt representative of everywhere or every type of varmint hunting. Sorry if I hurt your feelings but sometimes the truth hurts. Lawdog

Ramrod · « **Reply #28 on:** August 19, 2005, 01:42:22 PM »

Quote from: Woodchuck Sniper

Why do varmint shooters target the 22-250 ? Must be it's the standard from which to judge.......

I think you might be on to something here...sort of like how everyone compares their favorite big game gun to the .30-06! :wink:

nomosendero · « **Reply #29 on:** August 19, 2005, 05:37:44 PM »

It makes sense to call the 22-250 the "standard" here because it has been
around for a long time & any varmit hunter that has been around for
awhile knows the ballistics of this round. It is not the "standard" because it is somehow superior to all others, because it isn't. I have a very good &
accurate 22-250, a Rem. Var. Syn. & it is the best 22-250 that I have ever
owned, but it far from the KING in my gun safe, that is for sure!
It is however, a good varmit round.