Author Topic: Law Enforcements Take on Having Armed Civil (Read 5756 times)

KING · « **on:** November 30, 2002, 05:22:30 PM »

I hqave little problem giving my opinion on anything my friend...I just retired from 32 yrs as a DEPUTY SHERIFF,IN mi.,ya might say i worked just west of GRAND RAPIDS....I have and always will support the right for a civilian to carry a handgun..in other words..im was never a butt kisser or one to deal in the what -ifs...i have stopped many vehicles with the drivers/occupants carring thier weapons in a legal manner,and never even thought of thier being any danger to myself..as a matter of fact..i got a lot of free coffee offers to sit down and talk to em.....You have to realise that i was a line oficer,not a command...I can remember having a very heated argument with the patrol lt. about CCW..HE STATED THAT WITHOUT A DOUBT,there would be many deaths related to this very uncalled for activity,and his other worry was that some stupid rookie would shoot someone with a aCCW BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID...INTERESTINGLY....NONE....OF THIS HAS OCCURED WITH THE MANY THOUSANDS OF CARRY PERMITS ISSUED IN THIS STATE...as of this time,no improper shootings,and i think only 3 or 4 have lost the license to carry..mostly due to alcohol....in talking to all of the deps,and city officers very few express any worries what so ever..its the politicals that do...they think its the end of the world..but then again..they think they can predict the future,so far none have been even remotley correct...sorry to get so long winded,but i think that anyone who is not a danger to society should carry a handgun( i.e.,,a felon )...the more good guys that have guns ,makes for less victims on the streets.....provided that they have been trained and now how to shoot straight....as a point of interest...i know of few departments that train thier officers in how to react to someone legally carring a weapon...if you ask 100 cops how they will react..u will get 100 differant answers...goood luck...and im glad to have u on our side....KING :-)

DEPUTY · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2002, 05:45:32 AM »

pete welcome. as a current leo in michigan, and nra trainer in michigan, i can tell you most street level guys i have talked to have no problems with it! most command brassholes! have issues with it! go worth and carry! have no fear of the boys in blue or brown! we are here to clean upafter you save your life and your loved ones! just remember give no reasons be polite and nice all wil go well! stay safe! by the way checkout www.mgouc.com good pro gun sight in michigan! as well as mcrgo.com!

KING · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2002, 06:50:38 AM »

:-D As per normal,i fergot to add somethng that i think is very important to your case....All law enforcement types look at the CCW PEOPLE IN KINDA THE SAME LIGHT......YOU..because u have the license are looked at as a CUT ABOVE the average individual..it is important that u always conduct yourself in that manner,in speaking about this i mean that u are looked at as being more responsible a person that one who does not have a license..hope that helps ya a little...king :grin:

Krag · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2002, 05:00:04 AM »

In Florida, where I am a City officer for past 24 years, the weapon must be concealed. Most of the officers here have no problem with the permit holders, but expect them to obey the restrictions as to where they can carry and stay out of bars as is required. A few of my co-workers (mostly transplants from up north) freak out and get all excited about someone with a gun, but most do not. I agree with the above opinions, that you have little to fear from rank and file officers. We know that licensed gun carriers are not the problem. And we have a lot of them in Florida.

JeffG · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2002, 07:06:44 AM »

As a current LEO in Wisconsin, I support Civilian CCW, although the State does not allow it. It seems that on that issue however, the Command of most police agencies is against the idea. Somehow when they graduated from Patrol to Command, they suddenly think its a bad idea...Hmmmm. Your are a cut above. Go proudly, albiet discreetly. And enjoy your privelege that SHOULD be a right. Just my $.02...

kevin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2002, 04:25:30 AM »

Hi guys just wanted to say i thank you ,for your present support to firearm permit holders , i for one have carried one for a while at first it made me a little nervius knowing that some day i might have to use it to defend self and loved ones, then i went into corrections and learned just what kind of scum really float around out thier,as of jan 6th 2003 i've decided to put my self through mandate school in my home state of georgia, to become one of you all, any and alle-mail would be great and welcome. be safe out therel.
kevin

cpobb · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2002, 08:46:23 AM »

I'm a cop in Upstate NY , a city on Lake Ontario with NO lack of violent crime, and I can tell you the same as most everyone else in this forum. Street cops seldom have a problem with citizens carrying lawfully. In ten years, I have never had a problem with a person carrying a registered pistol. My only concern is that the armed citizen must know what to do AFTER the critical incident occurs. Once the shots have been fired, the Boys in Blue will be there in a few seconds. They are going to address the person holding the gun first! The lawfully armed citizen must know to immediately put the gun on the ground and their hands in the air. Don't be too surprised if you are put on the ground and cuffed. Cops always make the scene safe for themselves before sorting out the puzzle. Its just the way it has to be. So don't hesitate to protect yourself, (after educating and training yourself ) but be prepared for the Cops to do their job too.

rockbilly · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2002, 05:08:05 PM »

S.Sumner, The Texas carry permit clearly states on the front "CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE." I have never worked as a police officer, however I have two degrees in law enforcement. After retiring from the Air Force I planned to go into law enforcement, but was turned down several times because I was too old. I have several relatives who are in law enforcement, one currently sheriff and former U.S. Marshal. Not including my kin, most officers I have talked to have no problem with the concealed permit. I know of one who was exceptionally pleased to see an armed "civilian" come to his aid when a drug crazy thug had him pinned down with a shotgun. There are thousands of miles of lonely roads here in Texas. The troopers and most sheriff departments patrol alone, I think it must giver them a sense of security to know there may be someone close by that is armed and will lend a hand if needed. Least, that's my opinion from the conversations I have had.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2003, 11:31:15 PM »

I'm a sergeant deputy. I believe every law abiding citizen should carry and there should be a national ccw permit. If I had it my way. I would like to see a millitary style pdw tutorial employed to get a ccw permit, so we would have a better informed public as well as a safer carrying public. The coarse would provide all pistols from confiscations and the coarse would be reasonable at $25 or so. There would also be cheap ammo on hand for the public to buy and use during the class. All aspects of pdw would be covered. The person would get a generalized coarse for all types of handguns and would have to qualify with each model they intend to carry.There would be instructors on hand 24/7 at every millitary base. They already have the ranges and instructors. The licsence fee would cover the extra man power needed to direct civilians on millitary bases and the need for additional armorers. After getting your liscence anually there would be a brief refresher coarse and a quallification. Just a thought.

Raging480 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2003, 07:32:04 AM »

I am a leo in upstate NY, and I believe that every law abiding, honest, responsible citizen, who has the proper mind set, should have a pistol permit. I'll never forget a quote from a lt. I had once, "An armed society, is a polite society."
Besides, the police can not be everywhere at once, the citizens need to help themselves, and being able to defend lives is part of that.

redial · « **Reply #10 on:** May 12, 2003, 03:12:31 PM »

I was a street Corporal in the DC area - where almost no one can legally carry (unless you're a big contributor to a prominent demoncrap's reelection campaign) and I feel the same as every other road troop on this board. All of us have interviewed countless people who might have turned the tables on their attackers if they'd been armed.

It was my RKBA activities at the capitol and my teaching of firearms safety classes that torpedoed my career, incidentally. Bad juju with the brass, doncha know.

Good advice above concerning greeting the responding troops. It'd be a real pisser to prevail over the thugs only to have the good guys mistake you for a bad guy. Be discreet, be professional.

Redial

colt451911 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2003, 10:16:44 PM »

I am a future police officer (in college right now) and most of the cops I have talked to don't have a problem with law abiding individuals being armed. Obviously there are some people that should not have guns, but these are a small minority and are already subject to current law. Approximatly 80% of gun crime is commited with guns that were illeagily obtained, further gun laws would not impact the crime rate and instead only increase the rate of gun crime commited with illeagle arms. I realise that when I hit the streets I will be in harm's way but I will be much more worried about those who carry guns to illeagily then those who obey the already over-agressive gun laws. The bottom line (shown by crime figures in countries with strict gun control) is that overall, responsible, law abiding peoples posessing arms is in fact good for law enforcement, not bad! It is too bad that the politicians at the top of some departments don't realise this.

waksupi · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2003, 06:06:54 PM »

Also, the states whose actual license I have
seen, do not say CONCEALED CARRY any where on them.
they are simply FIREARM LICENSE
It is better to be JUDGED by 12 than CARRIED by 6.[/quote]

You need to travel a bit . My Montana permit says at the top, Concealed Weapons Permit.

jhm · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2003, 03:48:55 AM »

Waksupi : Well I am proud to say that Arkansas finelly came from the bottom of the list on something our ccw license states (concelled handgun license) .

JIM

Dogshooter · « **Reply #14 on:** June 05, 2003, 04:27:18 PM »

I live in Wyoming and my permit says across the top, "WYOMING CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT". I got mine about ten years ago. I travel across a lot of state lines and really have to be thinking about which state I happen to be in and in some cases (Colorado) which city. I have been stopped a few times and always tell the officer that I have a concealed, loaded weapon, and have been treated very well in every case. Just make sure you know the regulations if you cross state lines. I used to live in Traverse City and am really glad to hear Michigan has finally given it's citizens the right to carry. When I lived there, you really had to jump thru hoops to buy one and then you better not be crrying it anywhwere except to the woods to hunt or to the rangs. As the other guys said, act like a responsible citizen and you should get treated like one.

1GLOCK · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2003, 07:54:47 AM »

My PA permit says on it "License to carry firearms" under reason to carry it says "self-defense". It dosent say anything about carrying concealed though.

rdeviney · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2003, 02:01:38 PM »

I'm from Washington, and my permit says "License to Carry Concealed Pistol, State of Washington" across the top.

RipOne · « **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2003, 03:05:45 AM »

Concealed Carry Permit should be standardized ! The Permit should be one standard color ... should read CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT. Background checks, interview and training should be BALLS OUT - end result being many capable citizens with ability to defend, criminals lose.

The responsability must be clear and understood - safety 1st, 2nd & 3rd / many come appart unter pressure ( Nature of man ), calm must be known as a must under pressure - consideration for what's behind or beyond your point of aim ( Innocence ). I've seen some rugged men come apart when put under pressure - the brain goes.

Basic procedure for after encounter and poliece are arriving - the standard color card reading CCP, hands up with card in hand clearly showing ( More could be added to this process for situations, but display of card is important to lessen tention just a bit ).

STANDARDIZE is most important.

My feeling is that CC is for those with common sense - you shouldn't need it in Church or at the family reunion in a location with history of no crime.

Something told me once that I needed to take mine with me - the location was miles of driving in back country mountians, slow twisting roads without much other travel ... kind of alone. The wife and I had an encounter way back in there - 3 men approached out of no where, I sat the 45 APC Auto up on the dash in plain view .......... they turned and off they went .............. this had the feeling of a serious threat developing, and I'm actually sure of it ( We were at a little rest - a cut at side of narrow road ). That was the only encounter I ever had where more than my normal defence skills would have been needed - but it was real.

Crime has been unbeleavable even in my small town area these last years and it seems that the system is slow and weak in dealing with it - officers arrest and then the system often fails ..... overload I guess.

I believe that anyone having to use a firearm in self defence or aid to another would in most cases still get beat up by the system afterwords - procedures and rules stuff, and $$$$$$ into the system - all know how that works. Cost doesn't matter if life is in clear danger.

I'm an American that thinks Criminals get away with murder - even after arrest ..... the system pays for everything ..... the story is long.

Savage · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2003, 02:51:27 PM »

Rip,
A nationwide CCW would be an improvement, you bet! One point of contention; In my opinion, you should be able to carry anywhere. There are no safe places! There have been shootings in ALL of the places that you are not allowed to carry in! Churches, federal bldgs, courtrooms, schools, and even in the good old family reunions. The ony restriction I can think of that makes sense to me is that the CCW not consume alcohol or drugs. But that's just common sense isn't it!
Stay Safe,
Savage

Bugflipper · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2003, 03:35:08 AM »

I'm a Sergeant Deputy, I have one complaint here in AL, 86% of the population are registered gun owners. Roughly 74% have CCW permits, that's about 15% to few. It is a proven fact regions with CCW by the(Normal) public have a lower crime rate compared to the national average. I only would like to see more training envolved and a national CCW program, instead of limited area coverage. I have never had a problem with a legal CCW holder.

JohnClif · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2004, 12:15:48 PM »

Well... the gay rights activists are pushing gay marriage, and want a license issued in Massachusetts to be recognized by the federal government (for income tax, SSI purposes, etc.) and by other states (so their 'marriage' is legally accepted in other states).

IF they will agree to recognize my state-issued Concealed Pistol License as valid and recognized in all 50 states plus the District of Columbia, then I would be more open to their agenda and to the honesty and consistency of their purpose. Don't hold your breath!

Why is it that liberal activists scream for states' rights when it benefits them, and scream for federal oversight to counter states' rights when it benefits them? Of course... they don't care about principles or rights, they just care about their own self-interests.

NYH1 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2004, 07:10:35 AM »

I live in Central New York. I also have a "unrestricted pistol permit". All the police officers I've talked to over the years say its not the guy with the "pistol permit" they usually have to worry about.
If I get stopped by a police officer, I roll down my window, shut off my truck, if its at night I turn on the dome light, put my hands on the steering wheel all before the officer gets to my truck. Then I tell him I have a "CARRY PERMIT" and I "HAVE A PISTOL" on me right now, its on my right hip the same side as my wallet with my drivers license and permit. I also tell him its loaded with one in the chamber. Then I wait for him to tell me what he wants me to do. I've never had a problem. I think they tell the officer when he runs your plate that you have a "pistol permit" I've been told they do, I'm not sure though.
Some officer's say you have to conceal your handgun and others say you can carry open. I always carry concealed. I don't know if you can carry open. The laws in N.Y. are real gray.

Lawdog · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2004, 08:14:30 AM »

In 30 years behind the badge I have never had a problem with CCW holders. Lawdog

papajohn428 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2004, 05:34:56 AM »

My experiences as a LEO mirror everyone else's, for the most part. The rank and file wish all the good guys were armed, while the brassholes don't trust anyone not in uniform, and some that are! What is it about becoming an administrator that turns people into paranoid elitists? My LEO career was also curtailed by my non-PC activities, but I'm still packing, just in a different area.
On occasion I will be asked by clients why I favor CCW, and my answer is always the same. "There are more good guys than bad guys, by a ratio of roughly 19 to 1. If everyone was armed all the time, that five percent wouldn't dare do anything wrong, lest the other 95% revoke their birth certificates!"
PJ

Mikey · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2004, 04:06:24 AM »

JohnClif: You're not the only one with that wish list, and you can add my name right along. I think the liberals do what they want, when they want, because they are liberals and think they can do what they want whenever they want.

Interesting thought is to involve them in a discussion about liberty and freedom - when you think the terms either are, or might be mutally exclusive, they don't like it too much. My oldest neice just joined the ACLU, and I told her that although I still loved her as my neice, there just wasn't any way I was going to will her my AK-47 (LOL).

Hay, here's another question you can throw at liberals who advocate for same sex marriages: If two hermaphodites want to get married, would that be a same sex marriage, or a hetero marriage, or both ( :roll: ). Mikey.

legacy38 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 23, 2004, 10:55:22 AM »

I've been "on the job" for a little over 5 years. I'm all for law-abiding folks carrying guns. I think that the CCW licenses are rediculous because the US Constitution provided for it already. Despite that, folks that jump through all of the hoops aren't likely to go around shooting cops. Folks that do that sort of thing aren't likely to worry about any CCW law.

volshooter · « **Reply #26 on:** March 23, 2004, 02:26:06 PM »

A topic I have talked to many LEOs about. In Tennessee we have a "HANDGUN CARRY PERMIT". Our state govt. ment just that. A for instance that was given to me......"if you have a "concealed only permit" and happen to bend over in public to tie your shoe...your weapon is exposed and that ""could"" be used to remove your permit. It is a very good point. I have only seen a few openly carry in public....note worthy is there was no reaction by the public....that I witnessed.

Now as far as LEOs and our permits.... our DL # is the same as the permit #. My best hunting buddy is a retired US Marshal and just retired as our sheriff...... he tells me many of his younger deputies were very worried about approaching vehicles of permit holders. Perhaps age and experience will correct their unfounded fears.

One question that I have asked many many times from many LEOs is....."should a permit holder inform an officer ( if your pulled over) that he/she is a permit holder and is carrying?

" 100% responded NO!...... There is no need to excite an officer that is allready juiced! Not unless asked to hunt your regestration or step out of the vehicle..... only then inform the officer that a weapon is present.....My buddy said that before they approach a vehicle that has been stopped that the plates are run and owners are known...guess what, they know who has permits.

In TN we are required to attend and pass a class by a state certified instructor, fees run from 50-100$. Then we deal with the Dept. of Safety (the same dept. and employees that we deal with to get our driver license) Now that little trip cost us $150. A up to 90 day background check is done at state, local and fereral levels. Pictures and fingerprints abound! Every 4 years we must renew our permits at $50 price tags. Renewal process is long lines and the slightest testyness by anyone puts you back to the end of the line! While I was in process my Dad looked over my sholder to see what he should get ready for......state employee went beserk.....yelled "sit down"......I told her he was my father and was next in line...he only wanted to see the process so he could have his stuff ready..... lady very angry at dad for standing there.....so she finished up with me and took a 1 1/2 hour lunch at 9:30!!!!! She knew he was with me. Sheesh..... I was fingerprinted 5 times (on 5 different occasions by appointment only) by the state because they said my prints were not good enough. I finally got the paperwork to have my local sheriff print me and sign it...oh yes...he had to call too... before the paperwork was even submitted. Sheriff laughed alot, I have many scars on my hands and when printed they look like art work! He said he could reconize those easy because of the unique scars. Told me state tended to be difficult on those seeking permits. DOS office has 10 examiners for DL's but only 1 for permit seekers.....appt. only and they only take 6 a day. I think some of our state employees have issues with the extra heavy load.
Enough by me
Rick

PeterF. · « **Reply #27 on:** March 24, 2004, 12:18:49 PM »

I had a CC permit in my home-state, Massachusetts (Liberal bastion, etc. I know... I'm in Maine now). As expected, I had to be photographed, fingerprinted, etc., but I never had a problem. Issuance is up to the local Chief of Police. They don't call it a "concealed carry" permit, just a "permit to carry firearms", but they have several sub-classes, one of which permits you to carry pretty much anything, concealed or not (and you can have it say under "Reason" - "For all lawfull purposes"). I say "concealed or not", but , in reality, no one carries "open" in Mass; that would bring the cops coming from miles around. As opposed to Maine, where "open" carry is the rule (and doesn't require a license); and a concealed permit is supposedly very hard to get. It goes to the "rural versus urban" mentality; in "urban-land, a gun-carrier is assumed to be either an LEO or a bad-guy; in "rural-land", no one cares much ... guns is jest guns. One quirk of Mass law is that you are always required to be "in control" of your firearm; which means you can't leave it in your car unattended (it says so in the law). So do you take it with you into the 7-11 or bank?
For myself (having already gone through the fingerprint, photo routine), I'd like to see a "national" CCW permit; but I'm sensitive to 2nd Amendment fans who say it's not the Gov't's business.

RollTide · « **Reply #28 on:** April 11, 2004, 03:00:03 PM »

In AL each county issues a distinct permit. I the county where I live it just says "State of Alabama Pistol Permit" but on the back it states:
***********************************************************
This permit entitles you to carry a handgun concealed in the State of Alabama unless otherwise prohibited.

WARNING:
State and federal laws strictly regulate the possesion of firearms in certain areas that include schools, federal, state, county, and city buildings, and air terminals.
************************************************************

Alabama is technically an open carry state, but if you did so, you would probably at least be stopped and questioned by law enforcement, especially in the urban areas. I used to live in AZ where open carry was quite common in urban areas. If you were standing in line for a teller at the bank, to was not unusual to see 2 or 3 people with handguns in line in front of you.

I was never comfortable with open carry in urban areas. I think concealed carry is much better. It always makes the criminal wonder how many potential victims or bystanders may be armed. There have been several instances where robberies were prevented in AL by victims or customers in the business that were armed. AL has had concealed carry permits for at least 50 years that I am aware of.

I often have to enter emergency rooms after hours and pass through metal detectors manned by uniformed LEO. I have never been treated with anything but respect when I identified myself as a permit holder who was armed. I usually have to show my permit and leave my firearm and extra magazines with the security personnel and pick them up as I leave the building.

Roll Tide

paladyn · « **Reply #29 on:** April 27, 2004, 06:54:40 AM »

Hi. I'm new to the group.
My Indiana permit simply says "License to Carry Handgun" at the top. Nothing about concealed, although the understanding is the gun will be carried concealed.