Author Topic: Arrow Physics - crossbow vs bow (Read 8425 times)

jsteele · « **Reply #90 on:** August 30, 2005, 02:33:25 PM »

I don't know why dukkillr and I show up at the same time, but I'm glad he does. Its nice to see someone has some sense!

There have been literally DOZENS of times that I could have killed a deer if I had been carrying a crossbow instead of my bow.

Can you say the opposite?

A crossbow is technically more lethal than a bow. Its not really even debateable.

Leverdude · « **Reply #91 on:** August 30, 2005, 04:50:45 PM »

Quote

A crossbow is technically more lethal than a bow. Its not really even debateable.

I'll agree with that. Its still archery tho IMO. :grin:

dukkillr · « **Reply #92 on:** August 30, 2005, 06:42:07 PM »

Quote

See I knew it if I twisted this like my brother said you guys would cry foul yet in earlier post you guys kept hinting that the xbow was so more efficent and when the tables are turned. Even if I go along with what you two have said that the arrows have the same balistics wether it comes from a xbow or bow, than it kills the same too so your statement:

Claiming that xbows aren't more deadly than handbows is false, and unfair.

Has you running around in circles. Which way is it you cannot have it both ways?

I don't understand what you're trying to say. I think you confused yourself.

I've never met jsteel, never spoken to him, never had a pm from him, nothing. He does seem like a reasonable individual though.

jh45gun · « **Reply #93 on:** August 30, 2005, 07:27:01 PM »

Yes I can as I can and have taken longer shots with a bow than I have with a crossbow and killed deer. Something I have been trying to tell you two for ever since this arguement started. Bows with their longer arrows have a better trajectory over longer distances and xbows with their shorter arrows that lose energy faster. You can use the same argument with a muzzle loader a patched ball which is lighter than a conical and is faster sheds its energy faster than the heavier conical does even though the conical is going slower. bolts and arrows act no different depending on speed and weight. Again it does not matter what the delivery system is the bolt and arrow kill the same. BUT due to the way they are built they are both short distance weapons though the bow gets the nod at a slightly longer distance and second shots are faster if need be. Both arrows deflect brush equally and the bow is lighter to use over the xbow which can be heavy and bulky depending on who makes it. There really is no clear cut advantage to either system which both of you would realize if you ever hunted with either and compared them side by side. Shooting one at a target at a archery range or bow shop does not qualify you to know all there is about either weapon. Having used both I cannot see a clear cut advantage of one over the other they both have their plus and minus sides. The ONLY thing that remains constant is that they deliver a broadhead to the target which cuts and relys on hemmoraging to kill the animal. This concept it does not matter if you are using a 30 pound bow or a 250 pound xbow. It is the arrowhead that does the work. If the broadhead is sharp and you hit the vitals you should have a dead deer no matter what was used. More attention should be used of what is on the end of the arrow or bolt than what delivered it and more attention to hitting what your shooting at. With both systems you have to practice to get good and that applies to any gun you use too but with archery gear it is more apparent. Its a whole different ball game some one shooting a target and hitting it ten times and thinking they are ready to hunt using either archery system. And no duckkillr I am not confused it is you that twisted your story around.

dukkillr · « **Reply #94 on:** August 30, 2005, 08:00:50 PM »

Please take the time to explain exactly what you're tying to say with that quote, I really don't understand it.

jh45gun · « **Reply #95 on:** August 31, 2005, 08:14:46 AM »

Simple if you think that xbows are so deadly and easy to use, then you are using a inferior hunting system and they should be banned as they are not as efficient as using a crossbow. Now you either admit that there is no difference in the two as far as how they kill so you do not slam the bow or you admit your using a inferior hunting system. So what is it?

jsteele · « **Reply #96 on:** August 31, 2005, 10:05:47 AM »

That's easy. You are right.

I'm using an inferior hunting system. When I hunt with my recurve, it is way inferior to a top of the line xbow.

So why do it? Ahhhh .... because its bowhunting. Its supposed to be hard. Why do you think they give us so much time to do it?

Should they be banned? Now who is sounding like an antihunter? You are advocating banning bowhunting. Shame on you.

No, they should not be banned. I have a very good personal kill/shot ratio(21/22). Isn't that the true measure of hunting efficiency?

Just because crossbows are superior does not make them more efficient. Just longer range.

jh45gun · « **Reply #97 on:** September 01, 2005, 07:15:58 AM »

Of course I am not trying to ban bows just making a comment for you to say something stupid again which you did. Crossbows do not shoot farther than bows. 40 yards shots and less are recommended by all xbow manufacturers. What does it take for you to understand that. The crossbow is on par with your recurve for hunting situations and do not give me any BS that bow hunters do not shoot over 40 yards because I know they do and post on the archery boards prove that. THE ONLY ARGUMENT YOU CAN COME UP WITH THAT IS TRUE ABOUT XBOWS IS THAT THEY STAY COCKED. The rest of your arguements are mostly based on falsehoods. which is the reason of my last post and those words about banning bows were not mine but my brothers who hates bowhunters because as a Warden had to put up with a lot of bowhunters that were no sportsmen. He also is not to fond of them for leaving arrows and broadheads on deer with crappy shots made by bowhunters who do not practice enough and tthen shooting a nice buck with a arrow head in it all pussed up. For that I cannot blame him too many bowhunters do not put enough time in for practice And OH PLEEEEESE do not give me your pious bowhunting is hard crap. All hunting is hard to a point. I know guys that shoot deer year after year and yea they put their time in but they would not call it hard. Shooting any animal with archery equipment is a accomplishment and a trophy,but get off of your pedestal or tree stand

if you put your time in the field and and practice shooting bow hunting is no harder than any other form of hunting. You make it sound because you hunt with a recurve you are better than every one else. :roll: :roll: :roll: If your tally on kills is accurate congratulations I will give you credit for that at least you practice so you can shoot well. Your comments about xbows are still uninformed.

jsteele · « **Reply #98 on:** September 01, 2005, 11:31:18 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun

THE ONLY ARGUMENT YOU CAN COME UP WITH THAT IS TRUE ABOUT XBOWS IS THAT THEY STAY COCKED.

And you can rest them, or shoot from prone.

You don't have to draw it. You can't torque it. You can shoot it with one hand, if you want.

You aim through a scope. It shoulders and fires like a rifle. You never have to let down, or redraw.

There's no motion required to shoot it. You don't need to fuss over your release and follow through form.

The string can't catch your facesmask, or your jacket, or your hat. You never have to worry about string slap.

It doesn't require consistent anchor point. Bulky clothes and cold weather won't impact your draw dynamics. You can't pull your shots left, or drop your bow arm. or finger drag your release.

You can't short draw it. You can't overdraw it.

Yea, you're right ... that's my only arguement. :roll:

jh45gun · « **Reply #99 on:** September 01, 2005, 03:17:56 PM »

OK One by One.

1. "And you can rest them, or shoot from prone." Yes and they make a bow pod now that fits on to where your stabilizer goes that stabilizes your bow for a solid shooting rest. wether you use it or not is up to the bow user.
2. "
You don't have to draw it. You can't torque it. You can shoot it with one hand, if you want. " By Torque I am guessing you mean canting it and yes you can just as some cant a rifle. Shoot it with one hand?? You have been watching too many movies!!!! Most all hunting xbows would be too heavy to hold one hand and shoot as would be with most long guns.
3"You aim through a scope. It shoulders and fires like a rifle. You never have to let down, or redraw.

Some crossbows use the same Pin and peep sight set ups that bows do. Others use red dots or scopes but so do bows so there is no advantage there.Yes it shoulders but no way does it fire like a rifle. Hold a heavy xbow long enough and you will get tired of holding it up as you do with a rifle or shotgun or muzzle loader ect. You do have to redraw in a sense a lot of xbow manufacturers have a limit on how long the bow is stressed or cocked. On mine it is 4 hours so say you are on a stand for 6 hours some time during that period if you follow your xbow directions you will uncock it and recock it so the prod does not get stressed. I follow this advice and I am sure others do too.
4." There's no motion required to shoot it. You don't need to fuss over your release and follow through form.
Of course there is motion you have to bring it to your shoulder and even if you have it setting on a crosspiece you will move to get comfortable for the shot. No one is going to sit in a shot ready form all the time. You are wrong again follow through is standard wether shooting a gun or a bow or a xbow. When shooting a xbow you still have to follow through for the arrow to shoot consistant.
5"The string can't catch your facesmask, or your jacket, or your hat. You never have to worry about string slap.

Wrong again the string can catch on things and the prod has to be in the clear too. What looks like a clean shot with the xbow cocked could mean the prod hitting a branch or what ever obstruction and driving the arrow off course. String slap is huge worry with a xbow as if your hand and fingers are not placed right severe injury could happen to your hand when you shoot it.

6.

It doesn't require consistent anchor point. Bulky clothes and cold weather won't impact your draw dynamics. You can't pull your shots left, or drop your bow arm. or finger drag your release

Yes it does you should try to place your cheek in the same place on the stock and for aiming for constant results. No but Bulky clothes and cold weather affects how you shoot and cold weather affects a xbow as it does a bow. You can pull your shots with a xbow just as you can with a bow or a gun and yes you can drop your forarm which is the same thing as your bow arm. The release on a bow is the same as trigger control on a xbow do it wrong and accuracy will suffer and not all xbows have great triggers. From what I have heard the Excaliber does which is one reaon for its good accuracy but not all are blessed with a good trigger so you have to learn to shoot with what you have as not all releases are the same either.

7You can't short draw it. You can't overdraw it.

No but with as with a bow every thing has to be matched and if you short draw or overdraw than you are not shooting good form which is your responsibility you cannot blame equipment for that.

From your questions you really are ignorant of xbows and evidently guns too as if you equate the xbow with a gun then if you just follow the basics using either one for good form you must not be a good shot because so many things in good shooting are standard no matter what weapon you use such as follow through, No canting, ect.

dukkillr · « **Reply #100 on:** September 01, 2005, 05:29:29 PM »

I'm clearly using inferior equipment in terms of lethality. There's no question about it. And a long bow would be even more inferior, or less deadly. If you can't grasp that concept you've got real issues. Of course a muzzleloader is less deadly than a centerfire, no one is advocating banning any of these things, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I thought that's what you were trying to say, and I simply couldn't figure out why you make the logical leap from "less lethal" to "should be banned". I still don't get it. Primitive weapons of all types exist, and should continue to do so, that's the sport of it.

jh45gun · « **Reply #101 on:** September 01, 2005, 06:16:33 PM »

I said it to see how you would respond and JSteele did wonderfully he nailed every misconception he could. I could not get you to bite maybe as you could not figure it out oh well. My less lethal comment was to get you to defend the bow and say it is as lethal. As far as lethality goes a bow or xbow shooting a arrow into the right spot is as lethal as any other weapon within its given range and with any bow or xbow that is a short distance for most folks under 40 yards some feel only good at 20 or less. Still if the shot is good and the broadhead sharp you should have success. Dead is dead no matter what the delivery system is. Your comment about muzzle loaders and centerfires is off too as both are just as lethal within their given ranges. The comments on banning are my brothers and I gave the reason above. I cannot blame him for some of the stories he has told me. I bow hunt now xbow hunt so we do not always agree but he has some valid complaints.

Stalker · « **Reply #102 on:** September 02, 2005, 05:14:22 AM »

first let me start by saying that I have and use several different kinds of bows..... 2 self bows, 1 Howard Hill longbow, 1 Black Widow (take down), 1 Darton compound, 1 Mathews compound and 1 Excalibur crossbow........ (and I WAS around for the debate about allowing compound bow's).....

the arguments that I have heard against x-bows here are pretty lame and the perception that a x-bow "is not a bow" is ridiculous...... webster's makes it really easy.......

"a weapon that is made of a strip of flexible material (as wood) with a cord connecting the two ends and holding the strip bent and that is used to propel an arrow"....... nuff said

"hand drawn and hand held" ..... this is a regulation not a definition (even though P&Y would like to tell you different)........ you can't use a .22 for Elk hunting either during the rifle season but it's still a rifle.... again regulation not definition........

the "it's a gun" is also ridiculous..... ya it's got a stock and ya it's got a trigger.... some facts.... x-bows were around before guns... .... the stock and trigger idea was taken from the x-bow when guns were invented.... in fact x-bows were around before the english longbow... in fact REPEATING x-bows (CHU-KO-NU) were around before english longbows (23 - 200 AD vs 1000+ AD).... so ALL the talk like "you shoulder it like gun"... etc... should really be you fire a gun like a crossbow (they did come first after all).....

I won't attempt to address the ballistics of v-bows and x-bows because they are the same (even though some don't like to admit it).... but I will say that anyone who talks about getting "busted while drawing" is the reason to restrict x-bows... is just using that as an excuse it's all "smoke and mirrors.... when you are 30ft up in a treestand holding an 80%+ letoff v-bow..... if you draw when you should you won't get "busted" and you will NEVER get busted sitting in a "dog house" or "brickhouse" or all the other shoot through blinds out there...... (haven't heard anyone complaining about those though... hmmm)...

guy's.... get over it.... a x-bow IS a bow......

jh45gun · « **Reply #103 on:** September 02, 2005, 07:19:54 AM »

Thankyou stalker!

Stalker · « **Reply #104 on:** September 03, 2005, 06:11:21 AM »

glad I could help out jh45gun......

I wanted to add that in terms of "lethality"... :? .... you are absolutely correct jh45gun that the way all bows kill is through hemmorageing so it doesn't matter what the delivery system is (longbow, recurve, crossbow et al).... they are all equally lethal.....

dukkillr..... when you stated "I'm clearly using inferior equipment in terms of lethality. "..... the truth is that we can compare a recurve vertical bow to a recurve Excalibur crossbow... (it really doesn't matter to the bow if it's shot vertically or horizontally)..... what is inferior or the determining factor is the shooter... (aka the shooter can affect the shot more)... this is also the reason that compounds are more popular (aka due to stabalizers, peep sights, trigger releases... :lol: ...)... all these things REDUCE the negative affect that the shooter can impart on the shot..... in short the determining factor of what is inferior is the shooter......

also your statement about ...."Of course a muzzleloader is less deadly than a centerfire".... should be addressed.... blanket statements like that are incorrect.... the following shows a .58 caliber muzzleloader.....

BULLET 58 caliber, 525 grain HP maxistyle, Black Powder* = 90 grains FFg
Muzzle Energy : 1895    Energy 200 yds : 1069

here's some "centerfires" that have less out at 200 yds.... which do you think is "less deadly".... easy as shooting "duks" in a barrell.....

Cartridge (Wb + type)    MV (fps)    V @ 200 yds    ME (ft lb)    E @ 200 yds
.204 Ruger (33 BTSP)    671
.22 Hornet (45 Sp)     225
.222 Rem. (50 Sp)     500
.223 Rem. (45 SpHP)    590
.223 Rem. (55 Sp)     648
.22-250 Rem. (55 Sp)    861
.30 Carbine (110 RN)     373
.30-30 Win. (150 FP)     858
.30-30 Win. (170 FP)     989
7.62x39 (125 Sp)     882
.32 Spec. (170 FP)     1000
8x57 JS (170 RN)     995
.357 Mag. (180 HP)     385
.35 Rem. (200 RN)     841
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 FP)    661
.444 Marlin (240 FP)     1010
.45-70 (300 HP)     1031
.45-70 (405 FP)     1001
:lol:

jh45gun · « **Reply #105 on:** September 04, 2005, 07:34:02 AM »

Taken from the Hunting Indiana forum with JD Millers permission to post here.

I've heard the same excuses over and over . Easier weapon....crossbows are unsafe..... overharvest our resources....overcrowding . It all boils down to they dont want to share a resource that doesnt belong to any of us.

The great lengths that some groups are going through to keep crossbow seasons from expanding will end up biting all hunters and sportsmen in the butt. A crossbow is weapon of equal or lesser range and equal success rate....it deserves equal oppertunities in the same season. If you dont like them....dont use one .........its just another weapon choice and no ones forcing anyone to stop hunting with the weapon they prefer .

Crossbows , compounds , recurves and stickbows.....all are archery equipment . The same things said about crossbows were said about compounds when they were introduced . Compounds didnt end hunting as we know it ....they made the sport easier and attracted more to the sport . Crossbows will do the same thing .

As food for thought.... a modern compound with all the accessories (fiber optic /lighted sites/even scopes with range finders) , fall away /shoot through rest and releasing the string by a triggered mechanical device...does it have more in common with a crossbow or a recurve ?

I've also been a bowhunter for nearly 30 years and I have shot or hunted with all those types of archery equipment I mentioned .....including crossbows . I respect anyones opinion but I reccommend that anyone opposed to crossbows... gain experience with one ..to develop your own opinion and not someone elses... before you stir the pot.

jsteele · « **Reply #106 on:** September 05, 2005, 11:25:25 AM »

Quote from: Stalker

dukkillr..... when you stated "I'm clearly using inferior equipment in terms of lethality. "..... the truth is that we can compare a recurve vertical bow to a recurve Excalibur crossbow... (it really doesn't matter to the bow if it's shot vertically or horizontally)..... what is inferior or the determining factor is the shooter... :lol:

I've seen a lot of ridiculous statements over this crossbow issue before, but this one takes the cake.

Do you really believe that the only difference between a recurve and an Excalibur is the shooter?

An excalibur exomag comes off the rail at 350+ fps. A recurve would be smoking if it could hit 200 fps.

You need to lay off the crack pipe. Congratulations .... you win the "Stupidest arguement of the decade award.)

jsteele · « **Reply #107 on:** September 05, 2005, 11:31:28 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun

As food for thought.... a modern compound with all the accessories (fiber optic /lighted sites/even scopes with range finders) , fall away /shoot through rest and releasing the string by a triggered mechanical device...does it have more in common with a crossbow or a recurve ?

JH45gun -

you are boring me. You find someone else's opinion similar to your own and post it to try and prove ..... something.

Big deal. You have 3 or 4 people who support xbows.

As far as this quote goes, its a no brainer.

Compounds have far more in common with a recurve than a crossbow. You need to hold it one hand and draw the string with the other, When you get it back, you still have to hold it. You need to anchor in the same place, aim across 2 sight planes, release and follow through ... just like a recurve. Compare to a crossbow....point, shoot.

Not the same.

Like I said, this is getting boring smacking down these very lame arguements.

jh45gun · « **Reply #108 on:** September 05, 2005, 11:58:28 AM »

Well don't like it leave or do not respond your the one who came here to argue I have been here a long time and I started this at the xbow board where you came to argue. SO if the door hits you where the lord split you it matters little to me.

Stalker · « **Reply #109 on:** September 05, 2005, 02:02:04 PM »

I guess it WAS my mistake jsteele.... I gave you too much credit and thought that your education or ability to assimilate and analyze information could be held to a higher standard... my bad... :-D

let's try to make this "simple" so that you can follow..... rather than teaching you about recurve draw force and stacking or about power stroke length....let's just make it easy for you..... given that this entire thread was to get people like you and dukkillr to regurgitate your anti x-bow retoric let's try this....... if I take your 60" recurve and stick it on a stock it's still the same bow shooting the arrow genius.... and if you could draw a 200# recurve like the Excalibur Exomag you would get realize those kinds of arrow speeds as well (actually you would get faster speed because of the length of the power stroke.... oops)..... second scenario..... what is difference between a recurve 70# @ 28"... or a x-bow 150# @ 14"....... take your time.... write it in crayon if you need to.....

jsteele · « **Reply #110 on:** September 05, 2005, 02:44:45 PM »

Quote from: Stalker

...... if I take your 60" recurve and stick it on a stock it's still the same bow shooting the arrow genius.... and if you could draw a 200# recurve like the Excalibur Exomag you would get realize those kinds of arrow speeds as well (actually you would get faster speed because of the length of the power stroke.... oops).....

Ahhhh .... Fresh meat.

Listen, genius. If we could draw 200# recurves, we wouldn't be having a discussion about performance differences, would we now, genius?

And even if we could, we would have to HOLD 200# back, indefinitely, to be xbow like, genius.

I don't know what kind of macho you think you are, but you ain't doing that.

Would you like to try a different tact, or would you like to continue trying to convince us that recurves and crossbows are the same?

And if I'm not mistaken, the Exomag is 225# draw weight .... genius.

jh45gun · « **Reply #111 on:** September 05, 2005, 03:11:45 PM »

The Exomag has several poundages genius

( Jsteele) Speaking of meat I think you are TROLL meat as you have only used this forum to argue on this one topic none others. This is the only topic you have responded too so you are a troll as far as I am concerned. If your going to argue at least get your facts right. Bottom line is what was said about useing a system before you bash it but then I guess that is what trolls do.

Leverdude · « **Reply #112 on:** September 05, 2005, 04:04:02 PM »

I thought he said he had shot one? Things like this tend to galvanize folks to take one side or the other. Truth is nobodies really wrong or right.
If a crossbow aint a bow & arrow I'll be dipped in s#it. & if it aint an easier to use tool than a handheld bow I'll be dipped again.
Thats why they let folks that have a handicap use them in places that dont let everyone use them.
But its still a bow & arrow.

It comes up here every year & I usually resist change myself & dont like hearing about it but if asked honestly I cant say I would appose it. Its archery. What bugs me is the guys I do see fingering them in the shop & wishing they could hunt with them because how easy THEY think it would be.
I dont relish the thought of sharing the woods with alot of these guys, but again, I see the same types looking at the new bow tech's going 300+fps thinking its a slam dunk & they dont last. I think alot of the Xbow yahoos wont last either.
Its still a world apart from gun hunting & guys with a blast em attitude dont last long watching deer 60 yards away all day & not getting a shot. Its still a bowhunter waiting for that derned deer to take just one more step to clear some brush or to turn just a little more so as he can shoot, be it crossbow or compound. It is easier at the moment of truth, no doubt in my mind, but you still gotta get there & its still bowhunting, no doubt in my mind.

Now I guess thats why we all get to vote & talk to our elected officials about things we feel strongly about. Another bonus for allowing crossbows IMHO is its a decrease in Gov't control & I'm always up for that.

jh45gun · « **Reply #113 on:** September 05, 2005, 04:15:40 PM »

Good post leverdude. What I have been trying to say is anyone can pick one up and shoot it heck you can do that at most archery shops but getting out and hunting with one is a whole other ballgame and does have the many of the same challenges.

Stalker · « **Reply #114 on:** September 05, 2005, 04:19:37 PM »

ahhh jsteele it's time to take another trip to the wood shed..... actually you ARE mistaken (it's nice to see that you are consistant at least)... the Exomag comes in several poundages..... 185# and 200#... none of which is the same as 225#.... :-D ...... now unless the "j" stands for Jethro even you can do the math......

in addition you're right I don't pull a 200# recurve actually mine pulls 80# @ 28" but since I have a 30" draw it's a bit more.... and a friend of mine pulls a custom made compound set at 110#'s but I digress.....

if I pull 80# @ 28" plus add in the stacking factor for a 30" draw length this puts the performance in the same range as a 150# - 175# x-bow that has a draw length of 14" - 15"..... feel free to use a calculator..... fingers and toes won't be enough this time......

Leverdude · « **Reply #115 on:** September 05, 2005, 04:34:59 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun

What I have been trying to say is anyone can pick one up and shoot it heck you can do that at most archery shops but getting out and hunting with one is a whole other ballgame and does have the many of the same challenges.

Your absalutely right to my way of thinking. The only difference is when the time comes to shoot & its been my experience that the hardest part is getting to that point.
I got my crossbow thinking it would be some kinda lazer death beam arrow thrower because all the hype I'd heard. Just aint so. It is fun to shoot however & if they ever do change it in CT I'll likely use it from a blind in late season.
Do you load yours up when you enter the woods or wait till your on stand?
I'd be inclined to cock mine when I walked in but its a bugger to unload & I'll not be pulling it up a tree cocked. :grin:
Personally I feel the spontaniety(I think) of a compound outweighs the bennies of a crossbow in most situations.

jh45gun · « **Reply #116 on:** September 06, 2005, 01:01:54 AM »

I do not hunt from trees so I leave a bolt or arrow in it when out. I do have a disabled permit so if it is in the car it is cocked and cased with no bolt in it. I do not shoot from a vehicle but out side of it. So when I get out I load it. My xbow says to uncock every 4 hours so I do. I will say right now that shooting a xbow well takes just as much practice as a bow does along with getting good at estimating range and useing that info along with how your exbow shoots just like you would with a vert bow. It is not all a piece of pie like the anti xbowers think. If Jsteele and duckillr would use one for a season if it was legal for them they would have a different outlook if they were fair about it. But then JS is just being a troll here on the subject so God only knows if he even hunts? I do not respect trolls.

jsteele · « **Reply #117 on:** September 06, 2005, 11:03:51 AM »

Quote from: Stalker

in addition you're right I don't pull a 200# recurve actually mine pulls 80# @ 28" but since I have a 30" draw it's a bit more.... and a friend of mine pulls a custom made compound set at 110#'s but I digress.....

Who cares what your friend pulls ....

Pull the 200# or shut up, wimp!

YOU are the one who said there's no difference ... Put up or shut up.

Hunt with a 200# recurve or be branded a big fat liar.

Further more, who gives a flying turd about 150# crossbows? Look in Bass Pro.... average crossbow is 320 fps. Average bow is less than 300 IBO, and nobody hunts IBO.

The head designer of Newberry bows states that he will design a 450+ fps crossbow this year....Still don't care? I do. Its not bowhunting.

Stalker · « **Reply #118 on:** September 06, 2005, 12:02:56 PM »

jsteele.... the poster child for just stay in school.... :-D :-D :-D :-D

c'mon man you started this thread and here we are 4 pages later.... you would think that even if it was by sheer dumb luck you would have been right atleast once by now..... :-D :-D :-D ..... I mean even a blind squirrell finds a nut sometimes..... :-D :-D :-D

you mean to tell me that the math has you stumped still.... even after a day to think about it..... pretty simple really... half the draw length at twice the weight.... man what grade did you graduate..... :-D :-D :-D :-D

here's some free advice.... "it's better to have the world THINK you're a fool than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt".... now it too late for you on this site but better luck next time.....

jsteele · « **Reply #119 on:** September 06, 2005, 12:27:41 PM »

In other words ...

Dammit, you stuck me John. I can't think of a single thing to say that actually makes sense, so I'll ramble on about math and such, throw out an insult or two ....

Whatever, dude. You are still the only one on ANY board I've ever read to say that there is no difference between a recurve and a crossbow.

Tell me again who looks foolish? :roll: