Author Topic: Deer tallow (Read 1161 times)

danny clifton · « **on:** August 14, 2005, 03:37:57 AM »

Anybody render deer fat for patch grease? Do you add anything to it or use as is. I've noticed it doesnt get hard in cold weather. I took some skunk fat and put it in a container. (no smell just the fat from a skunk carcass) After a couple months the oil came out. This oil stays thin even in cold weather. Anybody use this for gun oil on your muzzleloader? What were your results?

sharps4590 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14, 2005, 11:47:49 AM »

I've never used skunk oil for but don't see why anything like that wouldn't work. It did for our predecessors.

I've rendered deer tallow and have used it for a patch lube. It worked as well as anything else out there. Generally all those old recipes were a 50/50 mixture of whatever tallow they had and beeswax. Mutton tallow and beeswax was another popular lube. I always mixed my lubes 50/50 with beeswax. Nowadays I usually buy Wonderlube because I'm getting older and lazier.

Vic

Ramrod · « **Reply #2 on:** August 14, 2005, 03:31:27 PM »

Go easy on thet there taller, afore ye git to talkin funny an callin folks "pilgrim"! :-D

danny clifton · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2005, 03:26:13 AM »

Lol Ramrod. I got a muzzleloader to put some challenge back in deer hunting. Found out its a lot of fun to shoot. Almost had to learn how all over again. I trap a little and use skunk oil in a liquid predator bait I make. Wife and me like venison so we butcher a couple every year. I've been using blackpowder and a patched ball cause I wanted to hunt the way my great great grandfather did. Got me to thinking about making patch grease and the skunk oil for lubricant. I dont dress in buckskin clothes and stuff but I do enjoy fooling with blackpowder. BTW if your interested the modern trappers rondevous is in Goshen Indiana starting Thur and going thru Sun. There is camping primitive and hookups both. Too late to get a room now. I doubt its as wild as one in 1825 but do have a good time. Lots of antique traps and stuff will be there on sale if you like that kind of stuff. The campground in the evening is a fun place to be. Lots of liquid refreshment and comraderie.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2005, 11:34:15 AM »

I've been using rendered deer tallow for years. Can't figure why there ain't more discussion on it in these boards. Seems logical that we'd all have a surplus of the stuff since it ain't good fer much else.

It makes an excellent patch grease and gun grease. I use it straight, no mixin' 'cept for my modern centerfire boolits that I cast.

To render it I recommend boiling it in water several times. I do this in winter, so I boil the trimmin's fer a long time to melt the fat out. Then let it sit till it cools and forms a hard cake on top. I pour out the water (actually more like jelly the first time around) and replace with fresh water. Boil it again and repeat the process once or twice more. Finally, I let the hard cake dry, then melt in a double boiler set-up. I pour this through an old T-Shirt (I dare ya ta wear this T-shirt while b'ar huntin') to remove the chunkies that are still with the fat.

Now I have a good coffee can full of white deer tallow. Maybe I'll mix in some essential oils just to make it smell nice.

The reason for doing the boiling method instead of just rendering the tallow outright is the water dissolves the salts that are mixed in with the tallow. The salts are something you want removed before using on your shootin' irons. I've tried just putting the trimmin's in a frypan and rendering it like bacon, that stuff caused rust problems. Looked worse too - it was all yellowish.

danny clifton · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2005, 05:33:09 PM »

Thanks Black Jaque

lostid · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2005, 09:12:46 PM »

Quote from: Black Jaque Janaviac

I've been using rendered deer tallow for years. Can't figure why there ain't more discussion on it in these boards.

Well,, cause it don't really work good

stuff burns-up funny in true bp arms using true bp,,,causes chunks an stuff too come caking out of the bore icky crunchy stuff,,,,think about it,,,,if deer fat rendered down (even with water to take the salts'(?) out of it worked well) woodn't someone in the past 400 yrs. thought of selling some too Cabelas or at least get a paten? :-D
Truth is,,folk's round here use deer tallow renderd much like jaque say's with menthol or euciliptus added as a topical salve for healing small cut's or burns. medicinal properties,,.

But for patch grease? Nope. Great,great gandpa very likley went through great lenghts to get whale oil or bear grease or mineral oil for his best shooting,,or just used spit.

dodd3 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:02:51 AM »

pure is good as a patch lube and is good to add to you're black powder cartridge bullet lube keeps fowling soft,the same lube is good fore minis.
bernie :grin:

dodd3 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:05:51 AM »

opsssss that is pure mink oil lol
bernie

danny clifton · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2005, 02:16:33 AM »

No more fat than there is on a mink it would take me ten years to get enough try. Just don't have many in Kansas. I think I'm going to try boiling and straining the deer tallow. What about the oil that comes out of skunk fat when you leave it sit a couple months? Will it protect from rust or is it to full of salt?

dodd3 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2005, 03:07:47 AM »

danny you can by it from track of the wolf for $4.99 a 8 ounce tin us .
bernie
ps you find it under reloading. :grin:

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2005, 11:27:04 AM »

Quote

Well,, cause it don't really work good stuff burns-up funny in true bp arms using true bp,,,causes chunks an stuff too come caking out of the bore icky crunchy stuff,,,,think about it,,,,if deer fat rendered down (even with water to take the salts'(?) out of it worked well) woodn't someone in the past 400 yrs. thought of selling some too Cabelas or at least get a paten?

I've been using it in true bp arms with true bp for years. Haven't noticed anything problematic about it's lubing properties. It performs about like any other grease-based lube. Water based lubes are different.

Here's my rule of thumb: If I'm plinking at the range and don't want to mess with swabbing between shots I'll use a water based lube. If I'm hunting and might not shoot the gun before the water evaporates and/or contaminates the charge, I'll use grease.

I even worked up a load for a Gr. Plains rifle using deer tallow and never swabbing 'tween shots. That was sweet and I intend to attemp the same thing with my flintlock when I get around to it.

Basically I used a loading block that was greater than caliber. I pushed the balls into the loading block, cut the patches flush, then flipped the block over and filled the cavities with deer tallow. The BPCR fellows would call this a grease cookie. It actually took 1/2 dozen shots for the velocity to get consistant. After that? I don't think I ever reach a limit to where I needed to swab it.

Why no-one sells it to Cabela's? Probably like Whitney's cotton gin - it's too easy to make fer yerself. And it's not space-agey.

So thar ya have it. One guy sez it works fine. Another guy sez it doesn't work good. That's 50/50. 'course the guy who sez it doesn't work good didn't exactly say he tried it hisself.

sharps4590 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:01:22 PM »

Black Jaque....

Thanks for the info on boiling the fat. I never knew of that so will have to try it this fall. My tallow never was what one could call pretty....but it worked just fine. I never had the problems lostid alluded to either and I've been shooting....uhhh....true black powder firearms and true black powder for near 30 years.

Vic

Ramrod · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:30:50 PM »

Being the lazy sort that I am, I just use grocery store lard, or good old Crisco. Stiffen it with beeswax for bullets. Grease is grease, fat is fat. Don't matter where it came from. It won't stop working just because we think we know more about muzzleloaders than the folks who lived and died by them. And just the same as with modern guns, we all know that the target range bears little resemblence to real life, hunting or self defense.

lostid · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2005, 08:57:00 PM »

Quote from: Ramrod

Grease is grease, fat is fat. Don't matter where it came from.

Well to be the Devil's adivcate.! That ain't so.!

A fat rabbit in winter need's to run fast or be supper for Fox,(herbivore)

A fat deer needs to be wary and hide,(undulate)

A fat bear needs stored fat too sleep, (omnivore)

Hummingbirds and Whales both knew to go south to eat.

"Fat", is different than, "tallow". "Lard" is pigs or/ cows fat and tallow mixed and rendered twice to a high temp,,aka, "lard'

And, Crisco is vegetable a oil! a mix of cottonseed and soybean!

now how did great great grandpa,, ever get patch lube oil out of a cottonseed?,,I don't get it,,,is all this stuff the same?

sharps4590 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 17, 2005, 12:56:39 PM »

uhhhh....a deer doesn't "undulate", that's an adjective or verb......it's an ungulate....and a ruminant, and also a herbivore.

Cattle and sheep produce tallow...and we call rendered deer fat tallow

Lard comes from hogs only, not cattle.

lostid · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2005, 04:47:17 PM »

thanks sharps,,i knew when i posted that i spelt wrong an used words different than the dictionary,,but at least i hope ya all got my meanin about the shootin part an oil's an fts an such,,they ain't all the same

propredator · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2005, 05:33:22 AM »

Ive been using render beef fat for a time now and will save the deer fat come season.I rendered it like Black Jack.Remember to scrap the bottom off after it cools.I use it for patch lube and to protect my bores.works good.
Rendered ainaml fat is what most of the early pioneers used,why?Because it was readly available,and repeals moisture better than any other lube i have seen.These boys didnt clean there rifle bores everyday.The fat mixes with the fouling.The fouling cant draw moisture because it is inpregnated with fat.
I did a experment with the beef tallow and my old junkar pistol.Shot it one time at least 3 times a week for a month.Never cleaned it.When i did give it a bath nuthin but black fouling cme out.The bore looks fine.I dont recomend not clening your rifle but that is the way they did it most likely.
Whale oil and such stuff would have had to be shipped in from coastel areas and would have gone for good money.
I bought a flinlock long rifle yesterday and the first thing i did after cleaning was to coat the bore with a hot melted tallow patch.
I doubt beeswax was used in the mix back in the day.That may have came along when conical bullets were being used?
The old boys used renerd ainaml fat because it worked well,it still can.

Ramrod · « **Reply #18 on:** August 18, 2005, 11:55:32 AM »

Yep, the beeswax thing came about so the animal fat would not run off conicals in hot weather. I remember reading about the British Army trials of the 1858 Enfield. 10,000 rounds fired without cleaning. That's right, ten thousand, and guess what, no rust! These lube lessons were obviously learned from the experiences of the earlier roundball shooters.

TN.Frank · « **Reply #19 on:** August 18, 2005, 03:26:23 PM »

Been using Crisco since I started playin' the Muzzle loader game back in '78 and it's worked great. I did mix up some 50/50 Crisco/Beeswax for a 45/70 ctg. gun that I had when I was loading it with Pyrodex but other then that I put some Crisco in a pan, heat it up and put the patches in it to soak. Take em' out and let them cool and they're ready to go. Another thing I don't worry about is making them round. I cut 1"x1" square patches and let it go at that. I figure as long as they seal the bore and grip the ball to spin it it'll fall away as soon as it leave the bore so what difference does it's shape make. Oh well, just some observations of a guy that's been into Muzzle loading for more years they he'd like to count. LOL. :-)

crow_feather · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2005, 04:31:19 PM »

The round ones are twice as accurate cause the ball spins round and round. With the square ones, the ball spins square and square.

sharps4590 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 19, 2005, 12:29:35 PM »

Interesting about the beeswax. Everyone I've known in my part of the country who rendered fat for tallow for lube always added beeswax, and I'll bet for the same reason I do..."cuz we've always done it that way". I didn't know it was a later addition or the reason.

Frank, how did your lube work on bullets for cartridge guns?

Vic

propredator · « **Reply #22 on:** August 19, 2005, 01:39:23 PM »

sharps they may have used beeswax in the lube,mountain men were known to carry a beewax candle.So they could of if they wanted.Dont think anyone knows for sure.At least i dont

Ramrod · « **Reply #23 on:** August 19, 2005, 02:21:27 PM »

actually, most of the period candles were made of...guess what?... tallow. String was hand dipped in hot fat, over and over, until the required thickness was achieved. These candles could also serve as emergency rations, as they were pure fat, and edible, if not very tasty. Beeswax was hard to get and has no food value.