Texas State Air Gun Silhouette Championships

[scorlett]

Here is a link to the program and entry form for the 2005 Texas State Silhouette match.

www.curragh.com/pellets/TSRAIR05.PDF

Please note the format is different this year. One day for rifle and one day for pistol.

If you can make to Fort Worth (Sept 10-11), please come join us!

Thanks,
Sam

[GeoNLR]

Sam,

Those of us that sold our springers and bought PCP's can't shoot sporter? Being new to air rifle I'm not sure I even know what the 2004 rules were. Will a air arms 410 meet the 2004 rules for sporter?

Thanks,

Chicken

[scorlett]

Not under the 2004 rule. No PCPs. But we'll have plenty of sporters to loan!

Sam

[GeoNLR]

Good deal, I might see if I can get a shooters or two to split gas and come over for the day.

Thanks,

George

[GeoNLR]

Forgot to ask if they turn off the wind for the state matches? I still talk about shooting Target class on that range, what a blast!

[Hornetx60]

Gee I didn't know we could pick and choose which rules to follow. Hell I think I'll start a "Registered" match and just make up  the rules as I go along. or maybe we can get "special dispensation" to run matches under wahtever rules we see fit. Now if you want to see this sport go to Hell that is a good start!!  Bill R

[Slowstdy]

Can i shoot my AA Pro Sport in Sporter Air rifle? it's production other than it has a Maccarri spring, delrin guides and a trigger job.
Cheers
Limey

[scorlett]

Howdy Bill and Dave!

I'm no offical so I can't comment. Just trying to get the schedule out.

But, if you come down, I'll buy dinner!

Sam

[genphideaux]

They do this also for the Florida State Match, even if you out score the FL resident they still give the Match winner to the resident, dangest thing I have ever seen.

Bill,
Your only upset because you never thought of this, am gonna break your pig record with ease, if i miss just simply say" car coming, do over" if I hit it counts, works on all animals, and has help on my 40 in a row score. LMAO
you big dummy.

Dawg out

[genphideaux]

Hey, does anyone know what the consecutive 40 in a row record is, using the above technique, plan on breaking this one soon,

Bill,
Wanna try and beat me know?


.......and their off,....mak'in it up as you go along in the lead..........got no imagination trailing off.......thats not what we said barely visiable........open can of worms closing in.............and are we in deep fixing to show.....whining bill tak'in it to'em :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D

[Hornetx60]

Get'er Done Dawg.... If ya can't win with what ya brung just change the rule to eliminate the competition. Hell lets go back to rubberband guns. That'll show'em.....To Bad because there are some really fine spring gun shooters that can beat up the PCP's

[genphideaux]

Bill,

I have a rubber band gun that has had a few tweeks done to it by a now deceased builder and now uses a special faster and bigger rubber band. I think we should use this as the standard and if you don't have one, well you can just watch. This is to stop chicken from bring his store bought one and kicking my butt as usual. That boy can sure sling a rubber.

On a serious note if the Texas State Sporter class is to be limited I would assume that it will not be sanction by the NRA and if they say it is has Mr. Conners been notifiyed of this limiting factor? So if it is not sanction I propose we have the Texas State Sporter class in Benton AR. or Biloxi MS or anyplace besides Texas and get it sanctioned with the current NRA rules, I have been to two worlds fairs and three bull milking contest and I have never heard of anything like this.

Dawg out

[Hornetx60]

Dawg by the rule book If they don't wish to follow the current rules then the sanctioning for the "Registered match must be pulled. Now here is the really strange part. Don Strickland ..The contact name on the registration form...is I heard supposed to be joining the silhouette rules committee. Now tell me how can a guy that is going to set up a match that is in violation of current rules be involved with the same committee that he is currently undermining the authority of? All of this to make a statement instead of going through the proper channels to get things done.  
Dawg Cmon up here to PA for the our Regional Air Match or we are having a State Match in NJ also.  Hey and we actually inspect guns and shoot by the rules... :eek:  :eek:  :eek:

[Slowstdy]

Shush…….. I think I heard I pin drop in Texas.
He must at least be embarrassed.
Well I’m off to the PA State Championship; hope they stick to the current rules.
I’ll catch up next week
Cheers Limey

[genphideaux]

Is anybody from Texas reading this? Or has the entire state fallen into this lockstep disregard for the current rules and sanctioning. I know that we are not all happy with the rule but this is no way to fight it, by complete disregard for the rules and to try and place a person into the rules committee who is asserting this discourse, is this not the proverbial fox in the hen house. I know that I for one will take this to another venue, and would suggest, that if you want to keep our sport in check that you do the same. If this is allowed it is no different than the government telling us they only want to outlaw assault rifles, and we all know where that will lead us to. If this has in anyway offend some of you then PM me and I will be more than happy to pass on my phone numbers and e-mail address so we can discuss in-depth your's and my feelings on this subject.

You must stand for somthing or you fall for anything.


James Culpepper aka dawg

[Tony Tello]

Come on guys, why don’t you read previous treads regarding the air rifle rule that was changed last year and you will realize that there are way more people unhappy with the change than not.  At this year Rifle Silhouette Nationals competitors meetings air rifle rules were discussed at length and the vast majority of the shooters in attendance voted to change the rule back to 2004, so it is going to happen unless the people that are in favor of keeping the current rule alive do something about it before the Silhouette Committee yearly meeting.  

In case you forgot how the change came about, last year some guy not even related to air rifle silhouette wrote a letter and asked the Silhouette Committee for a rule change regarding the Sporter rifle class that allowed for the use of PCP rifles in that particular class.
 
Texas in general and Don Strickland in particular are not the bad guys.  You can’t place a person in any rule’s committee even if you try, Silhouette Committee members are appointed by the NRA higher ups and in the case of Don I understand that he was asked to serve in the Silhouette Committee because right now the other members do not have an air rifle silhouette background and nobody that I know has more experience than Don in regards to running air rifle Silhouette matches.  Don is going to be the go to person when air rifle issues would come up at the meetings but if he is made feel like he is the enemy and not accept the nomination the alternative is to continue with no one in the committee that has a working knowledge of the rules.

[genphideaux]

Mr. Tello,

If I understand you right, we are suppose to allow Mr. Strickland to revert to the old rules prior to a rules change by the NRA appointed committee and simply heap praise on him for his foresite to curcumvent the current rules, and hold this as a sanctioned match. In my 25+ years of service to this great country I have had to comply with, live with and enforce more than a few, less than desirable rules. Sure it would have been more simple to go with the crowd and circumvent them, but then what would you have. Would you use the same analogy on an officer of the law when caught speeding "officer it use to be a 55mph zone till they put that school zone in, so I was just observing the old speed zone...Sir", I'm sure he will see it your way and circumvent the fine in leiu of jail. We all have had to abide by this rule, but I guess some are privileged and then there's the rest. This is how dictators are born and why we are at war now. Soldier-up.


James Culpepper

[genphideaux]

Would this have anything to do with this since all of these guy's used PCP

SOUTHERN NATIONALS - June 04, 2005 – Sporter Air Rifle Aggregate

   Class   Aggregate   LastName   FirstName   Match 1   Match 2


Master
mw   M   71   Imas   Dave   34   37
1st   M   70   Dadian   Dennis   37   33
2nd   M   68   Pfeiffer   Chris   32   36
3rd   M   67   Robinson   Bill   30   37


Dawg

[Tony Tello]

Mr. Culpepper, as you can see in my post I did not state what Mr. Strickland should be allowed to do or not I was only stating some facts.  

As far as I am concerned what the Texas State Association and Mr. Strickland do is their business, I am sure that more than one person had input on how to conduct their air rifle state match.

I know for a fact that the “new rule” was just rubber stamped by Greg Connor and the committee without taking into consideration any of the air rifle shooters opinions or feelings and that is the reason it is going to be reversed unless there is heavy campaigning done to prevent it.

[genphideaux]

Mr. Tello,

I stand corrected, and apologize that I misunderstood your position on this matter, but now you have stated "As far as I am concerned what the Texas State Association and Mr. Strickland do is their business" and I was in complete agreement with that attitude until they put this in the entry form :

RULES
Current NRA Air Rifle and Air Pistol Silhouette Rules Will Apply, except that the 2004 Rule definition of Sporter Air Rifle will be used.

This is an obvious seperation between the current rules and what they will use as rules. To simply pick and choose which rules will apply at a sanctioned match should be a concern of all the silhouette community and the NRA rules committee , at whose feet I have laid this issue. I understand fully the rule most likly will change, but until such change, all sanctioned matchs that are presented as such should adhire to the current rules.

James Culpepper

[Tony Tello]

Mr. Culpepper

I can see your point of view and agree with you that the current rules should be followed at all times 100%.  I just hope this air rifle issue does not end up dividing us again like the chin-gun and Hunter rifle issues did.

[genphideaux]

Mr. Tello,

I do agree with you, have a great day, and keep the dot in the white.

Dawg out

[TX Charlie]

Fellow Airgunners

During the first part of the year after the rule change for sporter air
rifle was announced and before I had mailed the program to the NRA for
approval I was told that if we wanted to shoot with the 2004 sporter
definition we simple needed to say that in the program.  Therefore that
is what I did, and it was approved and sent back to me with all the
paperwork.

Now, however I have been informed the information I was given at the
first of the year about allowing the match to be conducted using the 2004
sporter definition if identified in the program was incorrect.  And the
approval given to the written program was incorrect.  And that the 2005
definition of sporter air rifle must be used in this State Championship
for it to be sanctioned.  Otherwise it would mean no grand slams, no
national records, and no state postal team.  It was never my intention to
do anything not approved by the NRA.  Therefore the 2005 Texas State
Championship for Outdoor Sporter Air Rifle will use the current
definition of Sporter Air Rifle.

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused anyone.

Don Strickland
TSRA Airgun Director

[Hornetx60]

Mr Tello, It seems that for 100 or so shooters that have voiced there opinions at the last Nationals You have already made up your mind to reverse the Sporter gun rule back to the way it was in 2004. Well consider for a moment ...How many of those shooters at the Nationals were actually air rifle shooters?How many competitors couldn't make it this year to the nationals?
 How many shooters have purchased PCP sporters that you are now going to stick them with?... much like what the committee did with the chin gun rule. Except this time the committee isn't even going to let it go for a few years to see what the difference actually is.
Here in PA and NJ we actually have an increase in participation both in new shooters and in Jr's. If you check the records a lot of the 3 levels of JR records have been set this year in all 3 categories because of their new participation. Now we want to slam the door on that because some shooters want to protect guns that are out dated and dying off. The manufactureres of spring guns are not producing anything new.  The PCP's allow the JR's to shoot now. So why take away a gun that lets them buy one gun and shoot two categories at each match? I can see many angry shooters about the couple of thousand dollars they have laid out because the committee changed the rule only to once again with no regard  for our hard earned dollars reverse the same rule. Don't be suprised when instead of getting new shooters as we had started you cause the losss of many more. yet another foolish move.................................... Since you already have made up your mind. Bill R

[Tony Tello]

Mr. Robinson,

First of all I would like you to know I have no power whatsoever to do anything in regards to the “reversal” of the new rule since I have not been part of the Silhouette Committee for the last three years.  So for you to assume that I had made up my mind regarding the reversal of the rule is of no consequence to the sport.

I am an air rifle advocate and would like to see the sport grow because I recognize it as a great venue for our juniors to get started in the shooting sports.

I hope these statements show you my position regarding air rifle silhouette in general and as far as the Sporter class is concerned I don’t care one way or another if is shot with PCP rifles or not, I will leave that to the people directly involved with the sport (I have not shot air rifle silhouette since the NRA cancelled the Air Rifle Silhouette Nationals almost 20 years ago) I was only passing on information of what went on at the competitors meetings which by the way looks like it is going to be a slam dunk for the committee to reverse the rule if you do not convince them to do other wise.

[Varn1808]

I've been watching this thread with great interest. I happen to have bought one of those Walther Hunters. For the committee to reverse that rule, they are really looking to create serious animosity. I agree that the PCP sporter rifle isn't the same as a regular spring cocking rifle. Anyone who says they are hasn't cocked an Air Arms TX200 for 60 shots. That is why I feel there should be two separate classes at the minimum. Or, freeze the records that were set before the PCP's and let it go at that. Why stand in the way of technological advancement? The kind of logic that is being used here would have resulted in us still driving Model T's and unloading our .308's and 30/06 to shoot a HP match where live animals were used. The SB Hunter used to be 7 1/2lb. Then it went to 81/2lb. In the end, the same shooters still won.
    The smaller calibers with their high BC bullets and reduced recoil are an advantage in HP. The Nesika Bay type of stocks are perceived to be an advantage by some also. If we allow the PCP air rifle rule to be reversed then logically we should also reverse the HPHR rule and make everyone go back to out of the box HPHR's. The PCP's allow children, women and people of smaller stature to compete in an area where they may otherwise struggle due to physical limitations. The PCP's also allow a shooter to buy one rifle and use it in two classes as opposed to having to buy two rifles and two scopes. This was the case for myself. I already owned an Anschutz 2025 that I could use in the open catagory. I bought the Walther to be able to use it in two classes.
     I've read where the attendance at the rifle nationals was one of the worst in history. Part of this is most certainly due to the constant infighting and bickering that has been quite prevalent in this sport for the last couple of years. I don't shoot Cowboy but I've watched it and have friends that do it and I feel that Cowboy is flourishing due to the simplicity of the rules and the fun factor associated with it. We need to seriously review the direction that this is going and make a valid attempt to reduce the quarreling before we endanger our sport of following the path of IHMSA and BR50 rimfire. Thank you for your time.       Mark Varner

[durant7]

So, anyone going to fill up with some of that affordable fuel and head to Texas?  Figure it is only 500 miles from Memphis...

Should have bought a Prius....or Exxon/Mobil stock...

[jhmartin]

I'm a 4-H coach in Valencia County, NM and got wind of this discussion over on the pilkguns board.

I'd like to present my view ... from the perspective not of a competitor, but of a coach of competitors who range from 8 to 18.

One of the three air rifle events shot at 4-H nationals is AR silhouette, so 4-H does have a stake in these rules.

I personally like the newer rule on the gas gun allowance for two reasons:

1) The primary reason is one of safety and useability combined.  Many of my shooters under 12 are simply not capable of cocking a springer, lever or break barrel.  In order to them to get one cocked, they must contort in their shooting position ands many times the barrels are pointing in directions other than up or downrange.  I strongly discourage these types of guns when there are many smaller kids.  Even some of the young ladies 13-16 will have issues here.  To me it's simply not a safe atmosphere.

2) Although the "old" rules did allow CO2 12 gram cylinders, CO2, in my opinion is simply not suited for outdoor events ... at least here in the southwest.  Once the temperature gets above about 89 degrees, the very high pressure inside a CO2 tank/cylinder is simply too much for the guns to operate the gas valve.  As an example I simply cannot use a Crosman Challenger for outdoor 3-P competitions ... with our Daisy 888's I must only fill cylinders (2.5 oz) 1/3 - 1/2 full.  

Again, In my opinion PCP guns are the only viable air rifle for the majority of my outdoor silhouette shooters.

[GeoNLR]

I sure hope you have / are going to write the NRA with your opinion and experience.

Thanks,

Chicken