Author Topic: .223 for deer (Read 7418 times)

mossback · « **on:** August 16, 2005, 08:08:43 AM »

Anybody have any experience with the 60gr Nosler Partition in a .223 for deer. Looks like it still has about 1000 ft/lbs of energy @ 100 yds and would do the job if you didn't try to stretch it too far. My wife wants to try deer hunting this year, she shoots well but is very recoil sensitive. I thought this might be a viable alternative since she doesn't handle the recoil of even a .243 too well.

Lone Star · « **Reply #1 on:** August 16, 2005, 10:15:38 AM »

There have been many of these .22-250 for deer hunting discussions in recent months. Try the search feature and you'll have hours of fun reading.

jhm · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:07:54 PM »

Mossback: Even here in Ar. I feel a 223 is a little light to be used on deer a caliber with the managed recoil ammo would be a better bet. JIM

Lawdog · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:43:56 PM »

The use of a .223 Rem. requires that the hunter place his/her shots EXACTLY. It leaves NO Room for error. I have seen way too many deer wounded with this cartridge over the years to ever recommend it to anyone as a "deer cartridge". The very best thing you can do for your wife is to make sure the rifle fits her. Add a good recoil pad like a Decelerator and if necessary add a small 8 oz. mercury recoil suppressor to her rifle's stock. A cartridge like the .243 Winchester should be considered as the minimum for hunting big game. Do your wife a favor and get a different rifle/cartridge. Lawdog

Chuck White · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2005, 02:36:28 PM »

mossback
I've used the 223 Rem for deer! I used 55 grain Hornady Spire Points, and with good success!
I've NEVER lost a deer simply because I used a 223!

If you can put the bullet in the middle of the rib cage, close to the shoulder, you'll have a dead deer! I have never had to track a deer more that 25-30 yards with a hit there!
If you want the deer to drop right in it's tracks, line up on the front leg and aim for a spot about 8 inches down from the top of the shoulder!

Your 60 grain Nosler Partitions should work very well, as long as she can hit her target!

Note: I have seen quite a few deer wounded and lost after being shot with a 30-06, and never saw one lost after being hit with the 223!

7x57mm · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2005, 11:38:14 PM »

Mossback: A buddy used my then Howa 1500 Lightning Rifle in .223 Remington with a 60 grain Nosler Partition on a small mule deer in 2003 and it worked just fine. A heartshot took the deer out with no problem that I could determine. Range was 135 yards. The deer humped slightly at the shot, began to walk, at the third step got wobbly legs and fell over on the fifth step. He didn't angle the shot up through the hams into the heart. It was a broadside shot. I think your wife will do just fine if she can shoot your .223 with a fair amount of accuracy. My Howa, wasn't the most accurate thing with the 60 grain slug, but it was accurate enough for deer, one inch MOA at 100 yards. It had a 1x12 twist barrel. Tom Purdom :roll:

BnSC · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2005, 03:06:45 AM »

Here's another thought for you.. Get one of the recoil shields that strap over the shoulder. Most can be worn over just a t-shirt. So she could wear the shield under her outer layer of clothes. this would for sure make the 243 a usuable option..

I also use a 22-250 for deer w/ no problems.. However, it does require accurate shooting and I only take neck shots w/ that caliber. Your bullet choice in the 223 would most likely do the job, but for a beginner the 243 would be a better choice...

Most important thing is to get her out in the woods and bring another hunter into our ranks!

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2005, 04:02:24 AM »

mossback

I've shot several deer with a .223. I used the 55 SX by Hornady as I had 12 and 14" twist barrels. They would not adequately stabilize either the heavier Nosler or the Hornady. However a friend with a 1-9" twist barrel used the Noslers with no problems. Make sure your wife picks her shot. There have been a couple posts with good advise on that. I consider the use of the .223 on deer as a specialty caliber because you do have to pick your shot. We mostly used it for does. Always picked one that was standing broadside and put the the bullet up tight against the leg into the lungs. The bullets would blow up and just specKle the inside of the rib cage with very minimal meat damage. The Noslers did the same but punched the usual Nosler bullet base .22 cal hole all the way through. Never noticed any difference in the killing effect. I have also headshot a couple but don't really recomend headshots anyway.

Again, give your wife sufficient practice and make sure she picks her shot.
Suggest she hunts from a stand where she have a good rest and time to pick the shot. Shooting at running deer is not advised with this small cartridge. Good luck hunting to you and your wife.

Larry Gibson

"]Anybody have any experience with the 60gr Nosler Partition in a .223 for deer. Looks like it still has about 1000 ft/lbs of energy @ 100 yds and would do the job if you didn't try to stretch it too far. My wife wants to try deer hunting this year, she shoots well but is very recoil sensitive. I thought this might be a viable alternative since she doesn't handle the recoil of even a .243 too well.[/quote]

Lone Star · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2005, 05:21:08 AM »

Okay, here is my experience. Years ago in my youth I took a CAR-15 to Kodiak Island for the deer there. I used the old Nosler 60-grain Solid Base bullet. I took five deer in six shots. The first one didn't react to the shot so I fired again; it stumbled and tipped over. The next four I just shot once each and got them all. I learned that the deer seldom reacted to the shot, they just continued what they were doing for a few seconds, then wandered off and eventually fell over. I only recovered one bullet well-mushroomed at 150 yards, all the others were pass-throughs.

However, there were a huge number of deer on the island that year, and I passed up dozens of shots waiting for the perfect presentation - deer standing broadside not over 150 yards. Most hunters would never have the opportunity to do that and they would have to take a less-than-perfect shot or not shoot. Because the deer usually don't react to the shot, the average hunter could lose the deer by not following up, particularly in cover.

It is my belief that the main reason for my success that year was shot placement, and the ability to follow game in cover. I consider that hunt a stunt and would never do it again - I have many more appropriate firearms to use. Sure the .223 will kill a deer, but it is really an expert's cartridge. A dead deer is no proof that a cartridge is suitable - heck, some guys poach deer with .22RFs. A .243 is a far better minimum cartridge for deer.

Lawdog · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2005, 10:24:06 AM »

Quote from: mossback

I really didn't want this to turn into a debate over the effectiveness of the .22 cal. centerfires on deer. I would really appreciate it if you would limit your replies to the subject posted, which was does anyone have any experience with the 60 gr. Nosler Partition in .223 on deer?

When I said "I have seen way too many deer wounded with this cartridge over the years to ever recommend it to anyone as a "deer cartridge"." I just didn't add that the hunters were using the 60 gr. Partition bullet. I took it for granted that you would understand this. I counted up the number of deer(all bucks both Mule & Blacktail) that I have seen shot with this combination and it totals 13. Out of that total 4 were recovered and 9 were lost only to be found days later. Nothing wrong with the shot placements either, just the angle or range of the shots. Sorry if I was not supportive of your idea but NO .22 centerfire should be considered a big game cartridge. Small groups and tight lines to you. Lawdog

rockbilly · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2005, 03:17:59 PM »

:roll: I have to agree with Lawdog. I have sen a lot of wannabe commandos in the field with their AR copies. I don't have a problem with the .223 in the hands of a well experienced hunter/marksman, but for most people the .22s are too small for deer. I had one clown show up at my place several years ago with a .17, after the long drive he made to get there I hated to tell him, "If that's all ya got to hunt with, then I'll see ya later when ya get a real gun." Funny, he never came back.........guess he couldn't afford a gun. :wink:

Lawdog · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2005, 10:37:27 AM »

mossback,

Quote

Anyone who fails to realize the limitations of their cartridge is going to wound deer, it doesn't matter what they are shooting.

Not really. Example is a nice 250 pound(live weight) buck stands quartering away from you at 200 yards is a dead duck shooting it with a 100 gr. premium bullet out of a .25-06 but the same doesn't hold true if the shot is taken with a .22 centerfire using the stated 60 gr. Partition. Sorry the chance of deflection is too great using a high speed .22 centerfire where using a larger caliber it doesnÂ’t. Most average hunter doesnÂ’t have the patience to wait for the perfect shot, especially when the rack starts getting big. One deer wounded and lost is one deer too many. Lawdog

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2005, 11:16:29 AM »

Got to agree with Lawdog.

jhm · « **Reply #13 on:** August 18, 2005, 11:46:19 AM »

Mossback: As you have stated you will be coaching her as to what to shoot and I am sure the how to shoot aspect of hunting, with your own words she ISNT ready to go deer hunting with a 22 cal. weapon, Like several others who have patiently tried to explain the cal. defincies to you but you wont accept their opinion but will grab on to every word from someone who says that the 223 is capable of killing a deer, do yourself and your wife both a favor get her a rifle in a caliber suited for deer hunting and practice with it, dont go out there wounding deer just because it would seem like the fun thing to do.

JIM

rickt300 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2005, 07:45:53 PM »

I prefer a larger caliber myself but I have taken several deer that expired quickly after solid chest hits from various 223 loads. I really liked Hornady's 60 grain offering (the soft point) as it gave good penetration. This was also from a elevated box blind and perfect shots.

huntfamily5 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2009, 04:44:58 AM »

Thanks for all the information on the .223 / 60gr Nosler Partition for deer hunting.... on Friday, I am going on a fallow deer hunt and will be using my AR-15 dressed with a Nikon Buckmaster BDC scope. I have also chosen to use the Federal Vital Shok 60 gr Nosler Partition. I know fellow hunters that have used the same round to take deer so I feel comfortable. I will update the site upon my return.

backstrap · « **Reply #16 on:** April 01, 2009, 03:12:17 PM »

Good luck

ihookem · « **Reply #17 on:** April 03, 2009, 05:09:24 PM »

I think you should stick with the .243 Win. Maybe you should get an H&R super light single shot. It is 5 1/3 pounds, and If you start to reload you can do reduced loads and then let her get used to the gun. My 12 yr. old boy has one and he is only 4'3" and 63 lbs. He shoots the gun fairly well.

huntfamily5 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2009, 04:45:01 PM »

I returned from the fallow deer hunt.... I am happy to report that I killed the fallow deer at 126 yards, utilizing a .223 Smith & Wesson AR-15 and a single 60 grain Federal Vital Shok Nossler Partition round. The deer ran about 40 yards and went down after being hit in the vitals. The interior damage to the deer was impressive. I therefore conclude, assuming that you can hit where you aim, that a .223 round is an effective down range round for deer. This study in fact should puts the question to rest for me. Additionally, my hunting partner, utilizing the same gun and round killed a 250 pound european wild boar. Like the deer, the boar, was hit in the vitals, ran a few yards and went down.

Mohawk · « **Reply #19 on:** April 05, 2009, 02:52:50 AM »

Congrats! The .357 Magnum is also questioned by many as to it's adequacy for deer size game. The two deer I killed this year with the .357, like yours, ran about 40yds and died. Nothing wrong with that!!!! Did you get pass-through?

rickt300 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2009, 05:54:27 AM »

I have a friend who used nothing but a 30-06 for 15 years. He sent it in to be restocked and otherwise prettied up. That was more than a year ago. Since he didn't have a deer rifle he got a good deal on a Handi rifle in 223 wearing a Bushnell 4x scope (the cheap one). I loaded him up some 60 grain Hornady soft points and he has taken 10 deer with this rifle in two years. No problems, some dropped and some ran a short distance. He doesn't shoot shoulders and most of his bullets exited leaving behind plenty of damage. He says when he gets his 30-06 back he will reserve it's use for elk and mule deer and keep using the 223 for Texas whitetails. He gets a little more than 2900 fps out of his 22 inch barrel and in my opinion this is enough for a good shot out to 150 yards.

JPShelton · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2009, 02:39:54 AM »

While my favorite big game cartridge is the .30-'06, the truth of the matter is that I have killed more deer in my 33 seasons of deer hunting with the .223 Remington than anything else. I've used the .223 now for 22 consecutive seasons. If it didn't work for me, I would have given up on it a long time ago and I certainly wouldn't continue to use it now. But it does work for me and, in fact, it works rather well on the size class of animals that I shoot with it, which typically range in live weight from 70 to 150 pounds.

Over the span of my use of the .223 as a "deer cartridge," I've used the 64 grain Winchester Power Point, 60 grain Nosler Partition, and 62 grain Barnes TSX bullets. While all three of them work, I much prefer the TSX because I believe its superior penetration opens up more possibilities for shot placement. It is also a tighter grouper out of my Handi Rifle than the other two are.

The TSX bullets have significantly more penetration than the Nosler Partitions do and I believe that they go a long, long way toward bridging the terminal performance gap that used to exist between the .223 and the .243 on small deer and similarly sized game, and am therefore content to keep right on using the .223 as a light game round, where legal to do so. The level of penetration that bullet offers simply opens up a few more possibilities for shot placement.

I can't really say that the Noslers give me anything to complain about, but I think the terminal performance of the TSX is pretty much the pinnicle of what one can expect from a .223 in terms of game taking ability. That being the case, the TSX is what I now rely upon most for taking game with the .223.

-JP

rickt300 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2009, 04:24:35 AM »

What twist rate is required to stabilize the 62 grain TSX?

BBF · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2009, 12:52:54 PM »

Before all the fancy stuff came on the market I used a Hdy 60 grain HP and nothing( fallow and Pacific Black Tails) walked away when it got hit with broadside shots.
The only other cartridge that did the same "instant lights out" was a 240 Wby using the old style 85 gr Nosler PT.

yooper77 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2009, 09:56:15 PM »

It certainly does not take an expert to easily shoot and place shots with the 223 Remington! The military teaches new people everyday and they can in a short time master the 5.56x45mm NATO (223 Remington) accurately and efficiently. Unfortunately too many states allow the use of 22 caliber center fire cartridges for deer hunting.

I am with Lawdog, I personally don’t agree on using any 22 caliber center fire cartridge for the harvesting of any big game animals, and only the 243 Winchester using 90 to 100 grain premium bullets is my minimum choice.

But people have their choice, so good luck, have fun and be safe.

Mohawk · « **Reply #25 on:** June 24, 2009, 04:43:28 PM »

Just place your shots accordingly and you will be fine. Trust your logic. A .30 cal FMJ does great damage. I have used the Russian 7.62x54R FMJ on hogs and it has done fine through the heart lung area. The .223 can be adequate on whitetails, goats, etc., especially with commercial soft points. Good Luck!!!

dks7895 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2009, 05:45:18 AM »

I shot a doe @ 75 yards with a .223 using Hornady 55gr SP. Double lung shot and she ran about 30-40 yards. Bullet went all the way thru and both lungs were pretty trashed. I feel under 100 yards with a well placed shot, the .223 is fine for whitetails.

emsemt911 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 20, 2009, 05:35:36 PM »

I have used my .223 for deer. I use Noslar Partition 60 gr. Federal loads them. You have too have
a good shot placement. I have now decided that I will no longer use the .223 for deer. I believe that a .243 is the smallest round that should be used on deer. I know that I will get some slack, but I believe that the game I hunt deserves a quick and clean kill. I think that the .243 and larger does the job better than the .223

shortround · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2009, 10:50:54 AM »

If it's legal and you are proficient with a cartridge then by all means use it. I've spent most of my adult life in uniform.

As both a soldier and police officer. I've used the 5.56 (.223) and I know it will accomplish the task of killing. I know from first hand experience that it will.

Too many peole today say if you don't see it my way you're wrong. I think that's the worst thing to be telling people who hunt or who just enjoy firearms. Our rights and our sport are being assailed on all sides, but our biggest threat comes from within our own ranks.

Those who scream that such and such caliber is to big. Or such and such caliber is too small. We all have our opinions and we all have our truths, but the only truth which really matters here is what are you able to do with the weapon you shoot.

I hunt with the a .243 single shot Ruger and a 7mm-08 BLR lever action. Between those two rifles I've killed over 100 deer in the past 20 years in different states. They've all been one shot kills and I've made shots with the .243 up to 225 yards and several of the deer I've killed have been over 200 pounds.

Some folks think you have to have a large caliber weapon to hunt these days, I could use the old axiom that those of us who've been hunting over thirty years or more have been using, and that is...

A persons hunting and shooting skill is frequently inverse proportion to the caliber of weapon he shoots.

Over the past thirty years I've found this to be true more often than not.

But, I say that if that's your choice to carry a .338 Win. Mag., then by all means do so. I trust you to be able to hit where you aim, so I expect you to give me the same courtesy with the weapon I shoot. I will always support my brother and sister hunters in their pursuit of what they hunt as long as it's legal and they are able to accomplish the task with their chosen weapon.

It's all about hitting your target, and if you can't hit it you won't kill it.

Trying to make up for poor marksmanship skills with a bigger weapon is not going to accomplish that task.

Blue Duck · « **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:19:33 AM »

Interesting topic. Lots of emotion about using a .22 for deer. Guess I have never seen all these wounded deer running off and lost because because a center fire .22 was used. I have shot dozens of deer and antelope with a 22-250 and not one required a second shot. Use a proper bullet like the Nosler Partitian or the Speer 70 gr. and dead is dead. Most droped on the spot. No you can't shoot them in the butt or leg. A one inch hole thru your heart or lungs will kill you just as dead as a 2 inch hole. If you like to eat venison there is another bonus. You won't bruise and bloodshot the whole front quarter of the animal either.