New Member, could use some help

[bad-dog45]

Hello out there!
 I just bought a Handi rifle, chambered for 25-06.  I ve tried several differnt powder/bullet combos, and cant get a decent group.  I ve put over 100 rounds through it, and im closing in on a load that will actually group. 46.5 gr of IMR4831 behind a siearra 117gr.  I ve already done the rubber o ring on the forearm stud, and after I loosened up the screw slightly, its getting better.  Any hints tips or loads or just general info would be helpful, and greatly appretiated.  I plan on using this gun for varmint/deer sized game.  I ve already tried to pst 2 messages, and cant find them, so if you see this , help a guy out :shock: . Thanks and good shooting to one and all.

[quickdtoo]

Welcome aboard!!  Your post count shows 1 post, that's all ya got showing.... :?  I recommend you read the FAQ and the Cleaning and Hand Lapping our Handis sticky. You'll find the best accuracy when bench shooting by placing the forward rest under the hinge at the front of the frame/back of the forend.

You'll also need to follow thru with the trigger pull, all the way to the rear, don't release it at the break. The transfer bar safety requires it or you'll get inconsistent pin strikes and accuracy.

How's the trigger pull weight? A heavy trigger is harder to shoot accurately, there's a trigger hone instructions sticky, also...

Let us know how it turns out.

[ogo]

Welcome fellow Western Pa,er I  can tell you for sure that you are at the right place to learn everthing you need to know about a Handi rifle. These people know there stuff. Keep reading and check out the FAQ's.************ogo

[Norseman112]

Welcome  

I would make sure your scope base is tight. I always take my base off on a new rifle and use the blue loc tite. There is a sweet spot the O ring likes and I would also try shooting it with out it.  I don't know what kind of scope you are using, but with a decent scope,snug base,good rest point, not over heating the barrel and good barrel break in procedure your 25-06  should be a good shooter( once you find a good pet load). I hope this helps.

Norse

[Nuttinbutchunks]

<<You'll also need to follow thru with the trigger pull, all the way to the rear, don't release it at the break. The transfer bar safety requires it or you'll get inconsistent pin strikes and accuracy>>

I didn't know that :grin:

[quickdtoo]

:grin:

[Fred M]

Bad dog 45.

If you want to read up on the 25-06 Ultra I did some intensive research.
Also there are two other related web sites of mine that will give you a few ideas where to look.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/hrultrawp.html

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/accuhandi.html

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/257wp3.html

[Mac11700]

I'll suggest a different bullet to try...a 115 grain Combined Technology Silver Ballistic tip...and 45 to 49 grains of IMR 4350 powder...for factory ammo...try the Winchester Supreme load with the same bullets..here's my first group I fired out of my 25-06.Ultra



Mac

[bad-dog45]

First off, Thanks very much to all who replied!!! :grin:  I went back to the range again tonight, and started out poorly, then with the follow through trigger advice, and changing the rest point, I got a 3 shot inch and a qaurter group!!!! YEEEEEHAWWWW! now, we's gettin someplace!!! Unfortunatley, I fired the last of my 117's and the gunshop was closed.  So, the saga will continue tomorrow night :wink: I am looking forward to spending time on this site. ( and im already looking into another barrel :grin: 45-70 perhaps)

[quickdtoo]

The Federal 115gr Nosler partition shoots less than 1" groups out of my 25-06 Ultra, with the 1st 2 rounds touching, and the Hornady 117gr BTSP shoot almost as good. :wink:

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Can't say much about the 25-06 don't have one but the 45-70 is a very good choice :grin: sounds like you zeroing in on a sweet spot.

[Nuttinbutchunks]

And the Handiholic disease claims another victim :-D

Hahahahahahaha :twisted:

[Norseman112]

Clean her good and just remember what you did tonite and you will be fine. You may have some more load tweaking to do or maybe not  :-)  
I am glad things are  starting to go your way though.

Norse

[bad-dog45]

Here we go again!   I fired the first shot tonight, and it hit in the exaact same place as last night,  the next 4 shots went six inches low. ten rounds later, the best i could do was a 4 shot 3inch group.  Im gonna tweek the load again, 10 up a few tenths grains and ten a few tenths down.  It was scrubbed and anchored the same last night, im pullin my hair out here!!! But i aint givin up yet :wink:  Thanks again gents!!!

[ScatterGunner]

slug your barrel.

this may be a cast bullet gun !

what is your groove diameter ?

(edited)

almost sounds like a thermal problem, i.e., barrel heating. a good cold (1st) shot and then stringing.

if you shoot 5 shots and let the barrel cool between shots do you see the same target placement ?



sg

[quickdtoo]

slug your barrel.

this may be a cast bullet gun !

what is your groove diameter ?

sg

 :-D  :-D  :-D  A .25-06??? SG, you must not have read the whole thread..... :roll:

[ScatterGunner]

well, i did read the whole thread, but what did i miss ? we have a 25-06 with flyers after the first shot.

i did edit my last response.

explain ?

sg

[quickdtoo]

well, i did read the whole thread, but what did i miss ? we have a 25-06 with flyers after the first shot.

i did edit my last response.

explain ?

sg

First off, Thanks very much to all who replied!!! :grin:  I went back to the range again tonight, and started out poorly, then with the follow through trigger advice, and changing the rest point, I got a 3 shot inch and a qaurter group!!!! YEEEEEHAWWWW! now, we's gettin someplace!!! Unfortunatley, I fired the last of my 117's and the gunshop was closed.  So, the saga will continue tomorrow night :wink: I am looking forward to spending time on this site. ( and im already looking into another barrel :grin: 45-70 perhaps)

First of all, who would want to download a 25-06 to shoot cast bullets? Second of all, if it shoots good at least part of the time, it's not a overbore issue like the 44mag is. It's more likely a lockup issue, oil on the latch, rest position, or barrel heat, different load, bad scope.....many variables.

Bad-dog, did ya clean it good??? A lot of Handis don't shoot well from a clean bore, they need to be fouled...sometimes by several rounds.

[Ricci Price]

Hey bad dog take off your forearm and try to wiggle the barrel in frame if it moves ever so slightly, you have a gap problem. If you do, read the thread that FredM started about fixing the gap problem. If not I'd say the next step is to clean it real good with jbbore cleaner, and clean with hoppes afterwards, also let the barrel cool down after you shoot it perhaps 5-10 minutes. when you load it close it the same everytime, paying close attention to position of the release button, it should have the same amount of play in it every time you close it (ie..barrel position in receiver).

[Ricci Price]

You beat me to it Quick.

[ScatterGunner]

whoops !

i shoot more cast bullets than factory ammo or hand loaded jacketed bullets. so i guess i am one of those people who would 'download' a 'steller' performer like the 25-06 to a gun that would at least have a chance of doing better than 3" groups !

in terms of exterior ballistics for distances less than 200 yards, the 6mm/.25 caliber stuff is second to none. as far as interior ballistics goes, i can't really comment on the 25-06 other than the case length and capacity is too long and too large for the bullet diameter. my personal experience has been with small capacity 6mm/.250 cartridges, i.e. short cases and 1/2" in diameter.

in summary, i believe the 25-06 is a cool round and i have a 25-06 handi in my stable. it is an old takeoff on a 102 year old shell that was necked down and intended for i am not sure what !


sg

[quickdtoo]

I meant no offense to those that prefer to shoot cast bullets, but in a 25-06 it's kind of a shame to do that to such a marvelous long range caliber. I'm looking forward to shooting some cast bullets in my .30-30, Mac sent me a bag of nice looking gas checked bullets that are just begging to be loaded in all that .30-30 brass I bought from Handirifle!!!  :grin:

[bad-dog45]

Man!! This is awesome!!! It s like having my own panel of experts!!!  I will try all of those suggestions, except the one about cast bullets. Now, before any on gets riled up, I shoot tons( almost literaly) of cast bullets out of ALL my handguns.  But i'd prefer not to load down to get them out of my 25-06.  A lot of helpful hints, and alot of stuff i wouldnt have thought of in a million years.  I am beginning to lean toward the bad scope theory. This scope is a faily new Simmons 4-12 pro hunter, and it performed flawlessly on my 17 hmr.  I have a brand new world class tasco 3-9 I'll be installing  shortly.  I took the day off tommorow to try this new set up( how could i focus on my work with a gun in the cabinet that wont shoot?) I'll still do the vairations on the load, cause when it works, it works very well. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!

[ScatterGunner]

the 30-30 is a top notch cast bullet gun. i have only 1 mold for the 6mm/.25 cal stuff. it's an old lyman steel block mold that drops .258" flat based loverins using wheel weights and 10% 50-50 solder.

for the '06, i do not size the bullet, i just let it fly as it drops straight out of the mold, but i always give it a slathering of lee's liquid alox. most of the time i have to either bell the case mouths a bit or give them a quick spin with the deburr tool so the bullet doesn't shave.

on a good day, off the bench i can get 2" groups with 10 minutes between shots and loverins are lousy bullets !

sg

[bad-dog45]

i practice gun control, I hit what im shootin at![/quote]

[ScatterGunner]

gun control is good ! it's something that seems to escape me !  

sg

[bad-dog45]

Well, I ve swapped the scope out. Now I ve got some more reloading to do.  A buddy with a 243 handi says that his will only shoot well with factory loads,  but,  Im just gonna keep pluggin away till I solve this little(did i say little, riiiiiiiight) dilema.  Im gonna call NEF today and raise a bit of cain.  Just to see what response i get.

[bad-dog45]

I hate to admit defeat, but alas I am beaten.  After yet another trip to the range, 20 more rounds, and an exponetial amount of frustrations I give up. Im sending it back, but im not pleased with what im hearing from the factory.  I was informed that the factory feels that 2 1/2 inches at 100 yards is acceptable.  And, that at least one week turnaround is normal. I havent completley given up yet, but this rifle better come back a near tack driver, or im done with NEF.

[quickdtoo]

Have ya tried more than one kind of factory ammo? I shot 4 different loads before I found one that the gun really liked.....Trying to get it to shoot well with one kind can be frustrating.

[bad-dog45]

Tim,
 yeah, I tried 4 differt brand/loads, and the same affect.  the last four shots I fired where in a 4 1/2 inch group. 2 touching at 1o'clock off the corner of the 10 ring( which I was quite pleased with) but the other 2 where at 11o'clock and at 4o'clock on the 6 ring. Ihave a pic of the tatget, but cant figure out how to get it on here