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Author Topic: 45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! Help  (Read 1323 times)

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Offline Fryedham

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! Help
« on: August 18, 2005, 09:11:59 PM »
My older brother gave me a Contender in 45-70. Some brother huh? Needles to say I'm hooked. :grin:
Now I want something bigger even if I have to buy an Encore frame.
I have been shooting all my life but I'm new to the Hand-cannon scene. I have heard of the 500 Alaskan, 500 S&W Mag., 470 ne, and others but I don't want something whimper than my 45-70.
I'm open to any suggestions.
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Offline Redhawk1

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2005, 01:55:59 AM »
Most hand gun barrels for the Encore will have to be custom barrels, if you want them to be bigger than the 45-70.  :D
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Offline MePlat

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2005, 01:56:59 AM »
Two good choices are the 458 Win Mag and the 50 Alaskan.
Both will out do a 45/70 Contender but then again an Encore in 45/70 will out do a Contender in 45/70.
The 50 aAaskan is good round and with Starline brass available it is easy to load for.  The 458 Mag is easy to load for too.
My pick for fun is the 50 Alaskan.  plenty of surplus 50 BMG bullets for plinking and fun.  Those bullets require a fast twist barrel though.
A 14 incher in either one would be about right.
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Offline Lone Star

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2005, 03:33:03 AM »
I've had a Contender barrel in .50-70 from SSK for years.  If you like recoil, this is your cartridge!  The barrel is too thin to mount a scope so it's iron sights only.  With a .81" barrel and a .510" bore, there just isn't much steel left so the total gun weight is very low, even in a 14" barrel.  

My hunting load is a 515-grain RCBS cast bullet hollowpointed to 475 grains.  Fired at 1270 fps it does get your attention.  I also load 750-grain .50 BMG bullets to around 1100 fps - truely heavy bullets!  BMG tracers are the most fun, but you need a safe backstop where you can lob the shells out at least 500 yards to enjoy the show.  I shot over coastal mud flats at a local range, safe and loads of fun.  Barnes makes 300 and 450-grain jacketed bullets.

The SSK barrels are not cheap, but they are cheaper than buying a new Encore....
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Offline poncaguy

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2005, 03:37:47 AM »
I ordered a 15" SS 460 S&W barrel for my encore.........think it will be a very good round in the 15" barrel. Happy with the 15" 7MM-08 I have on it now. Of course, my Contender 45-70 keeps a smile on my face..... :grin:
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Offline MePlat

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2005, 04:50:19 AM »
The Encore in 50 Alaskan is better than the 50/70.  One can load it down to 1050 with a fast twist barrel and on up to close to 1500 with 700 gr 50 BMG bullets.
Of course "better" is a relative term.
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Offline Lone Star

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2005, 06:44:39 AM »
I don't recall ever saying that the .50-70 was "better" than anything else.  But if "better"eans more power, then my .50 Alaskan is indeed "better" than the .50-70.  But since the OP already has a Contender, the .50-70 barrel is cheaper than buying a new Encore frame AND custom barrel AND new stocks for the recoil.  The .50-70 brass is readilly available as are the dies.  .50 Alaskan reloading dies are much more expensive and more difficult to find.  I'll let the OP decide which is "better" for his use, I just gave him an alternative to the .45-70.   :D
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Offline MePlat

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2005, 07:12:13 AM »
Lone Star:  Read his line:      
"Now I want something bigger even if I have to buy an Encore frame ."

To me this indicates that he has or can get the funds to buy another gun.  Maybe not.
I gave him an alternative too.  I think CH has 50 alaskan dies for a lot less than RCBS.
I said "better" is a relative term.
Starline brass is readily available for the 50 Alaskan. as are bullets.
Naturally we will let the OP make his own decision as we aren't the ones paying for his toys.  But remember if you are going to play you gotta pay.  Now if you want simplicity what about the 458 Win Mag.  Hornady bullets galore. Remington 405's are cheap.    Winchester cases are easily found.  H4895 is great as is H335.  What else would one want if he choses an Encore?
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Offline rbjaw

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2005, 09:28:05 AM »
Get the 500sw in the 4'' barreled guide gun.  set up hospital for emergency hand reattachment and get full bore loads
it was nice knowing of you !!!!!!!!
jaw
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Offline rickyp

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2005, 09:51:28 AM »
If you want to stay with the contender you cna always move up to the 475 JDJ. It is a 45-70 case necked up to .475. everything I have read about this round says it is great for cast bullets, because most .475 rifle bullets will not expand with this barrel. I think this is about as big as you can go with a contender.
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Offline Pie-bald

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2005, 10:16:46 AM »
Get a 450 Marlin pistol barrel and CRANK it up a notch!! 405gr bullets stepped up from a 45/70 in contender will get your attention! It's the heaviest kickin' pistol I've shot yet! Last week I shot 454, 460, 480 and the 500S&W and the 450 with 405gr's hurt the worst and the guy with all the other stuff refused to shoot it after 2 shots!
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Offline MePlat

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2005, 11:04:16 AM »
The 450 Marlin is a thought but you can equal it with a 45/70 encore barrel.
Better still,   remembering "better" is a relative term ,  the 458 Win Mag would be better.
A custom barrel to be sure but it would surely be nice.
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Offline Pie-bald

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2005, 11:24:12 AM »
Yes I know that a 45/70 Encore can be cranked the same as a 450 Marlin but I own a SSK 14" 45/70 in a Contender and for safety's sake I bought the 450 in an Encore so there's no mix-up when grabbin ammo. I own 3 different combos in rifles and pistols(or Encore rifles) in same caliber and ammo is safe in both ,so I avoided a BAD situation by buying a 450 instead of another 45/70 in an Encore. Which was basically the idea behind the 450 Marlin in the first place
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Offline MePlat

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2005, 11:52:53 AM »
Pie:  That is a good idea you have there.  I have a custom Contender barrel in 45/70 and an Encore barrel too.  After I got the Encore barrel I retired my Contender barrel be cause no need of it.
The 458 would be my 1st choice over either one.  
Anyway he wants power so the 458 would get the nod.
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Offline xphunter

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2005, 12:30:37 PM »
Fryedham,
All I can say is that I am impressed (and anyone else that shoots these really big boy toys).
If I was pulling triggers on rigs like that on a regular basis I would be :cry:
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Offline TopGun

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Bigger
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2005, 03:33:09 PM »
Why don't you go teh Encore route and a custom 416 Rigby 16 1/2" with brake. It generates 95 FELT foot lbs of recoil. A 460 Weatherby generates 112 ft lbs. The Rigby is a handful, even at pressures of a 35 Remington!!!
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Bigger
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2005, 04:49:56 PM »
Quote from: TopGun
Why don't you go teh Encore route and a custom 416 Rigby 16 1/2" with brake. It generates 95 FELT foot lbs of recoil. A 460 Weatherby generates 112 ft lbs. The Rigby is a handful, even at pressures of a 35 Remington!!!


Now that  would be a handful.  :D  :-D
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Offline doc-and

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2005, 11:29:04 PM »
SKIP THOSE MOUSE GUNS!!! GO for a 600Nitro :)  :)  :)

VIDEO :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek: :

http://www.wimp.com/feedback/

docand 8)
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Offline Keith L

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2005, 02:05:52 AM »
i bet you wouldn't want to use the old taco grip on that 600 Nitro!
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Offline jhalcott

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2005, 04:41:52 AM »
was that his SCOPE that went by his head?? He shouda used a SOB mount! I find the 358 jdj all I need in recoil,it kicks worse than my 45-70 with 405 grain slugs.  goes a bit faster also!!those hard kickers will give you carpal tunnel sooner or later,or just a big headache whenthey bonk you!
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Offline Moe

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2005, 06:03:14 AM »
Go to Gary Reeder's website, he has lots of big stuff and a sale right now...
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Offline pistolhuntermn

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.300 Win Mag
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2005, 08:37:11 PM »
I had a Contender with 14inch 45./70 also. I shot Garrett's 500 something grain rounds. It had alot of recoil and limited range. I switched to the Encore frame and had a Custom 18 1/2 inch .300 Win Mag barrel made with a muzzle brake. I put a scope and bi-pod on it. The weight of the gun, scope, and bi-pod is 12 lbs. I shoot Federal High Energy 200 grain to make up for a few inches less barrel than a rifle. With the weight of the gun and muzzle brake the hardly moves when shot. There is a hell of a muzzle blast, but the gun jumps up just a few inches and doesn't come back at you at all. I repeat the muzzle brake isn't optional! With out the muzzle brake this gun will jump, buck, and pound you!
I have shot deer and elk with this gun. The gun will shoot as far as you are good at holding it to. I have shot it for fun on paper out to 600 yds. to test my ability to hold still and trigger pull. The .300 win mag and the pistol will do it, it's up to you to hold it that still.
One last thing, my Contender has 3 times better trigger than my Encore. The Encore needs trigger help straight from the factory. It has alot of creep and is alot heavier pull.
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Offline xphunter

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2005, 12:32:08 AM »
pistolhuntermn,
What MV do you get with your 300 Wm w/ 200 grainers?
I use a 15.75 inch 7.82 Patriot in a XP-100 (sporter barrel) for my elk hunting and get 2785 fps with a 180 grain SGK.
In the elk pic (385 yard shot) it has a black stock, but it now has a yellow one w/ black webbing as the black one was an older H-S stock (not as strong) which broke.  The yellow one was the only spare I had.  The same pistol is the one below my name in which I hit the small piece of steel @ 700 yards using a bipod with my elk load.  I did shoot one shot before that at 700 yards at a bigger piece of steel and it shot 2-3 inches right of center.

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Offline xphunter

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2005, 12:36:16 AM »
Oops-Mine does have a Vais Brake that is the same contour of my barrel taper.


If you look carefully you will see part of the 800 yard target right above my head and the 1000 yard target up on the hill.
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Offline doc-and

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2005, 04:12:43 AM »
Quote from: jhalcott
was that his SCOPE that went by his head?? He shouda used a SOB mount! I find the 358 jdj all I need in recoil,it kicks worse than my 45-70 with 405 grain slugs.  goes a bit faster also!!those hard kickers will give you carpal tunnel sooner or later,or just a big headache whenthey bonk you!


Nope, That was the whole damn gun!! :eek:  :oops:  :eek:

docand 8)
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Offline Kens

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2005, 12:35:12 AM »
What is the scope you are using?  Is it a pistol or rifle scope?
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Offline xphunter

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45-70's not doing it for me need BIGGER! He
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2005, 02:02:48 AM »
If the question is directed to me, I am using a 3-12 Burris LER, PA with Ballistic Plex reticle, set on 12x.  I was also using a Kenton Industry replacement turret that was set up for my load, elev & approximate temperature.
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Offline captainkirk

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600 Nitro
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2005, 10:59:22 AM »
Here is the whole thread on the 600 nitro guy, he also has a matching encore in 50-140...

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=bigbores&Number=34889&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

captainkirk
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