Author Topic: Cindy Sheehan  (Read 5410 times)

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Offline fe352v8

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Cindy Sheehan
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2005, 06:14:35 PM »
Whether you applaud Cindy Sheehan or are appalled by her, one thing is for certain she has become the lens through which, what had been a disjointed anti-war movement, is now being focused.

Strange thing is, if Bush had walked down his driveway, and talked with her, it might have preempted her media value.  Instead he issues a statement saying he understands, she has a right to protest, and that he has to get on with his life.  For an administration that early on seemed to understand the importance of symbolism, they seem to be losing their touch.  

We live in a world of images and sound bites, a single picture of the President with his arms around a grieving mother, and saying something like:

“I sent him your son and all the other sons and daughters there to try and stop more parents from having to bear the loss of a child.  I am sorry it was your child, but he died trying to make this world a safer one, not only for us, but for everyone.  Your son was a peacemaker, and I believe what is in Mathew 5:9, Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God, I could not do this job if I did not believe that.  Your son died trying to bring peace and security to others, and no sacrifice can be made in a nobler cause.”

But what did he do Saturday, his stump speech. 9/11, itÂ’s hard, stay the course, Saddam, Ossam, terror.  Unfortunately it may be to late.  We now have a 4 star general saying the Army is prepared for deployments of 100,000 in Iraq for another 4 years, and a leading Republican senator, with presidential aspirations distancing himself from the President, and he is just the first of many.

With mid-term elections coming up, and the beginning of the presidential campaign, conservatives or Republicans, had best hope, that something positive and decisive come about in Iraq, or they could well lose, the Senate and or House in 06 or even the White House in 08.  The margins of victory enjoyed by Republicans have been quite thin, and the war in Iraq is becoming the dominant feature on the political landscape.  If Iraq is allowed to become the defining election issue, the conservative / Republican movement in this country is due for a political set back.  Clinton won in 1984 with a mantra of,  Â“itÂ’s the economy stupid”, conservatives / Republicans could well lose, in 06 and 08, if they fail to realize, “itÂ’s the war stupid”.

I may lean left but, I am also an American, and I remember too well how the ghost of another conflict haunted this country, and I would prefer not to see it again.  If the President does not do something decisive, to bring about the stated goals in Iraq, it will be more than the tragic loss of lives, which this country will have to mourn over.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline powderman

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Cindy Sheehan
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2005, 04:04:44 AM »
fe. Saying that you lean left is an understatement. There are many good things about iraq, but you'll never read or hear about them from the libby media. The stories told by the people who are actually there are just the opposite of the libreral trash coming from the news hawkers. I bet you voted for gore, and that traitor kerry. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2005, 09:22:12 AM »
Powderman,

YouÂ’re a Democratic strategistÂ’ dream come true.  Come mid-term elections you will still be berating the “libby” media, and shouting about the good things happening in Iraq, and calling this person or that a traitor.

Trouble is, things are not going well, and if by the 06 mid-term elections, your hero is still staying the course, we will have over 2000 killed, and the defining issue of the election will be Iraq.  Presently, according to any poll commissioned by anyone, less than 50% of the public supports the current conduct of the war.

In America we like winners, when the hometown team is a winner it is “our team”, when they are losers, they are just “the team”.  If we do not begin to appear to be winning the war, it will not be “our war”; it will be BushÂ’s war, and by extension the “RepublicanÂ’s war”.  Remember Nixon, Viet Nam was “JohnsonÂ’s war”, it was the “DemocratÂ’s war”.

Unless something different is done, that quashes the insurgency quickly, we face a very real possibility of finding ourselves in the middle of a three-way civil war between Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis, and if that becomes a reality, the war will become “Bush’s war”, and his alone.

While I hate to make personal assumptions, I do not think I would be to far out on a limb assuming that you are a conservative, even by Republican standards.  President Bush is rapidly approaching a point where support from the more moderate sectors of the Republican party will begin to abandon support for his agenda, as they distance themselves from “his war”, and differentiate themselves as “a different kind of Republican”, if that happens, the issues of the more conservative elements of the party will become marginalized.

Being the more conservative elements of the Republican Party, will be fighting the more moderate elements of the party, the Republicans will be “eating their own young”, by calling each other traitor, stealth-democrat, closet–liberal, and any other debasements you can conjure in a banquet of self-righteousness, you will not even notice, that you are no longer the majority party.

When it is over, you will blame the liberal media, or whoever, without ever bothering realize maybe it was not your agenda that caused rejection, maybe it is the way you tried to implement it.  You can have great ideas but if you do not execute their implementation correctly, they just end up as bad ideas.

There is a difference between setting a course, the idea, and sailing the course, the implementation.  The shortest distance, if you sail from America to Europe, is a straight line, however the fastest way to sail to Europe is to follow the gulf-stream current, which is farther.  The democracy that we are trying to bring to Iraq is a perishable cargo, and the course that the President has chosen will cause the ship to take longer to arrive in port, and if the cargo is spoiled and rejected by the Iraqi people, the ship owners, the American public, are going to blame the captain, President Bush.

So stay the course, how else could you make the chairman of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean, look intelligent?

Not that it matters, I voted for Bush in 2000.  I could not bring myself to vote for a guy who thought he invented the Internet.  In 2004 I voted for Kerry.  I am a pragmatist; I felt and still do that Bush as President thoroughly squandered, the worldwide support that America received after 9/11.  His attitude reminds me of a little child crying, “nobody likes me”, well maybe it is not that there is some thing wrong with everybody else, maybe there is something wrong with him.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2005, 09:48:00 AM »
Fe,you are a unread,unthinking,Liberal quoting Twit,think for yourself,read for your self.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline powderman

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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2005, 09:53:00 AM »
fe. You voted for  a man that has voted AGAINST every military spending bill for the past 30 years, yet claimed to be for a strong military. Kerry has voted FOR every gun control bill ever presented, yet claims to be a hunter and sportsman, remember how he said he loved to deer hunt, crawling through the forest with his dbl bbl 12 ga??? Yep, he's a real hunter. He claims to be a Christian, but his OWN church refused him sacrament because of his support for abortion and gay marriage. Thats ok though because he found a church in Michigan that did the deed for I'm sure a healthy donation. Lets not forget his traitorous actions during the vietnam war. He, and others like him gave hope to our enemies, so they fought on, costing even more American blood. Yep, you picked a real winner. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2005, 10:01:11 AM »
I HAVE A PLAN had a plan for Iraq,Medicare,SS and more--------FE what was ore is one of those plans,I will wait.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2005, 11:09:46 AM »
Intrepidwizard

I enjoy exchanges of ideas, and normally do not engage in, or respond to a personal attack, But for you, an exception.

You wrote:

“Fe,you are a unread,unthinking,Liberal quoting Twit,think for yourself,read for your self.”


Lets begin with your apparent lack of familiarity with English grammar.

1.A space normally follows a comma.
2.While yourself, or your self, is correct one should be constant, at least    within the same document.

While it is easy to ignore grammatical and or spelling errors, and I normally do not consider them in assessing the intelligence of the writer, illogical lapses however, are an indication of the writerÂ’s intellect.  In your case this becomes painfully obvious, when reading your posts.

I cannot be an unread, unthinking, Liberal quoting twit, because to quote, as in cite, one must read.

In your next post you wrote:

“I HAVE A PLAN had a plan for Iraq,Medicare,SS and more--------FE what was ore is one of those plans,I will wait.”

Again ignoring your disturbingly obvious grammatical and spelling errors, as an indicator of your intellect or, in your case, a lack there of, I am forced to deal with syntax issues, that make it difficult to even ascertain what you are trying to express.

I can only surmise from the two examples of your writing, that English is a second language for you, or you are in the third or fourth grade.  However if neither of these describes your situation, I can only conclude that you lack the intellectual capacity to engage in intelligent discussion.  

If you would like to discuss difference of opinion, without resorting to personal attack, I will be happy to, if you wish to be further abusive and personally disparaging, I will choose to ignore it as it adds nothing to the discussion.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2005, 11:19:15 AM »
Ok Fe,what was one plan I HAVE A PLAN had,in detail please so's a poor dumb old woodsy hillbilly can understand.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2005, 12:37:37 PM »
To who is “I”, referring to, in your post?

I am not trying to be argumentative, but it is not clear whose plan you are referring to.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

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Offline powderman

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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2005, 04:31:35 PM »
fe. I'm just a dumb ol country boy too but it would seem apparent to most folks that WIZ is referring to good ol, I have a plan, hanoi john kerry. Just an uneducated guess on my part. POWDERMAN.  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:  :eek:
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2005, 05:45:12 PM »
All right, I will work with your assumption, but if it is incorrect, I am not going to be the, me, in the old saying, about assuming.

Kerry laid out “his” Iraq plan, in 4 points, during the debates

1.Internationalize, because others must share the burden.
2.Train Iraqis, because they must be responsible for their own security.
3.Move forward with reconstruction because that's an important way to stop the spread of terror.
4.Help Iraqis achieve a viable government, because it is up to them to run their own country.

I found little difference between the two candidates on this, and neither explained nor offered a method for achieving these objectives.  Both claimed they would do it better.  I did not believe either could fulfill this plan, then nor now, as the ratio of forces, based on the doctrines of the various war colleges, was inadequate to accomplish the mission.

Kerry never offered a plan on SS.

I viewed this as an advantage, as the privatization plan as proposed, places the system in deeper debt and, does not account for the feeÂ’s that will be charged by various money mangers to administer the accounts.  The Social Security portion of FICA is a regressive tax, in that it applies only to the first $90,000 of adjusted gross income (for tax year 2005, 2004 it was $87900), at a rate of 12.4%.  A person with an income of $90,000 would pay $5,580 and his employer would pay the same, for a total of $11,160.  A person making $180,000 would have the same $11,160 tax liability, even though making twice as much.  To further add injury or insult the Social Security tax is not assessed on all sources of income, but mainly against wages, salaries, and tips.  Trust fund babies win again.

During the debate over the dividend tax cut, Bush spoke often of the evils of double taxation; SS is subject to triple taxation.  You pay your portion of FICA, you pay income tax on that money you paid to FICA and, dependent on income, you can again be taxed on the SS you receive when you begin drawing it.   So if double taxation is bad, then triple taxation is worse, unless of course you are in the income class where SS is of no consequence, like Bush and the people who write our laws.  The simplest way to fund Social Security would be to make all types of income subject to the tax and lower the rate, but the major political donors whose income sources are not subject to FICA, are not going to let that happen.

There were no real Substance differences between the two candidates.  Before you blast me with abortion, guns, and all the rest, think about it.

What gun right has been restored to you, in the five years that Bush has been in office?  Has there been a single filing by the Solicitor General to, over turn any state and local infringements on the Second Amendment?  Aside from AshcroftÂ’s non-binding memorandum has there been anything aside from lip service paid to the Second Amendment in the last five years?

What policy, introduced by Bush, has resulted in less abortionÂ’s being performed in this country?  Aside from saying “culture of life” over and over again what has he done to materially reduce the number of abortions?

There was little to recommend either.  They are both Ivy League trust fund babies.  You want to believe that George is a good olÂ’ boy, fine, but prep-school in Connecticut is along way from public school in Texas, and a degree from Yale is a long way from Texas A&M.  You want to buy into the whole swift boat thing, fine, but how tough would it have been to show up at Guard drill?  .  Even appearance wise, neither showed any particular advantage Kerry with hound dog eyes, and Bush with Dumbo ears, they are both cartoon like

Both are pretend populists, both are elitists, and neither has a clue what is like to be a “good ol’ boy”, for you country folk, or a “regular Joe” for us city folk.

 In the end I decided Kerry could not do worse or less, and I was tired of hearing a Southern drawl, for the last twelve years, what can I say, I am a yankee.  Admittedly not the best reason to vote for, or against someone, but I didnÂ’t have a coin on me Election Day.

So explain the difference to me between the two, in specific terms, using verifiable examples whenever possible, but I do not think you will find much difference.  Without party labels it is hard to tell the difference, when you look at the reality of results.  Neither one of these guys is worth fighting over, to me.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2005, 05:58:56 PM »
Bush is not the pro gun person that we had all hoped for that is true but Kerry  is buddy buddy with Hillary and Shumer, Kennedy, Boxer and Feinstein and other prominent anti gun politicians. If he was elected the anti gun folks would be pushing anti gun bills right and left. Any one who brings up Kerry in a gun board sure must not think too much of his guns. I know there are other issues but for me that is numero Uno. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2005, 06:36:11 PM »
A liberal cannot stay on topic-ever.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2005, 07:12:08 PM »
Jh45gun

Have any of them ever been all that you hoped for?

I too worry, not just about the Second Amendment, but also about the other nine.

Just remember there are more ways to disarm us than a frontal assault on the Second Amendment, so divine carefully. Have you read Part 1 of Section 6 of Senate Bill 397?  Pretty subtle, and could be used as a very effective way to constitutional disarm us, and it was not introduced or sponsored by, Hillary, or Schumer, or Kennedy, or Boxer, or Feinstein, or anyone else thought of as anti-gun.

No politician wants an armed populace and the reasons why are obvious.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2005, 02:58:22 AM »
I said, before we went over there the second time, that someone with a monetary agenda was pulling the strings. I will say now this has proven to be a true statement.
I got nailed for it then, I got nailed for my change in stance in 19and66, I have been proven right on both accounts.
Look folks, this thing was ill-conceived, not well thought out, not well planned, flown by the seat of someones pants. The men/women-boys and girls, if you are my age, children-if they are yours, are fine soldiers just as those in Viet Nam were. They are being used and abused as were those in Viet Nam.
You wish to find glory in war, think about that. Glory in self-defense-YES. I propose anyone find a legitiment self-defense over there. If you wish to conquer these folks please refer back to our revolution for the end results.
This lady deserves your respect and honor more than she deserves your scorn.
Now this is no liberal talking, fact is I am far more conservative than most.
Take off those rose colored glasses, take a deep breath and let the brain get some oxygen, take this false pride and honor thing an put it in your pockets and think thru this thing.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2005, 04:30:10 AM »
Willie L,have to break your correctness bubble ,Cindy Sheehan is a full blown nut as her former husband as of last week and her kids will tell you as will her boys buddies,as to the war you have to go back to the Clinton Administration if you are going to make it a $ War and a Vietnam war,it is not evern close.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2005, 06:07:36 AM »
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline wareagleguy

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« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2005, 06:46:56 AM »
Regardless on which side of the issue you stand on this topic.  One thing here is FACT and no one can deny.  She is exercising the very right the military is trying to establish in Iraq.  We might not agree with her but I support her right to be there and will fight anyone trying to stop her.

Freedoms are sometimes a slap in the face but a slap in the face is far better than chains on the wrist!
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2005, 07:18:33 AM »
That is noble Davis if you show the truth and the other side,as Missing Bill Clinton
>
>    It doesn't matter what party you belong to -
>    this is absolutely hilarious.
>
>    Just watched a show on Canadian TV.
>    There was a black comedian who said
>    he misses Bill Clinton.
>
>    "Yep, that's right - I miss Bill Clinton!
>    He was the closest thing we ever
>    got to having a black man as President.
>
>    Number 1 - He played the sax.
>
>    Number 2 - He smoked weed.
>
>    Number 3 - He had his way with
>                     ugly white women.
>
>    Even now? Look at him... his wife works,
>    and he don't!
>
>    And, he gets a check from the government
>    every month.
>
>    Manufacturers announced today that they will
>    be stocking America's shelves this week with
>    "Clinton Soup," in honor of one of the nations'
>    most distinguished men. It consists primarily
>    of a weenie in hot water.
>
>    Chrysler Corporation is adding a new car to
>    its line to honor Bill Clinton.The Dodge Drafter
>    will be built in Canada.
>
>    When asked what he thought about foreign affairs,
>
>    Clinton replied, "I don't k now, I never had one."
>
>    American Indians nicknamed Bill Clinton
>    "Walking Eagle" because he is so
>    full of crap he can't fly.
>
>    Clinton lacked only three things to become
>    one of America's finest leaders:
>    integrity,
>    vision,
>    wisdom.
>
>    Clinton was doing the work of three men:
>       Larry,
>       Curly
>        and
>       Moe.
>
>    The Clinton revised judicial oath:
>
>    "I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it,
>    the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing
>    but what I think you need to know."
>
>    Clinton will be recorded in history as the only President  to do
"Hanky
Panky between Bushes."


did.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2005, 11:40:12 AM »
You can write this down, remember where you put the note, This is not about establishing a democracy.
If they have a constitution, which appears suspect, as we speak, it will be a weak and unhonored piece of paper. This culture does not desire a democracy, bunch of folks want to be the ruler and will do it in the name of a democracy but it will be a sham. Seems like this topic comes up a bunch about this country these days in this little forum.
This woman may well be wound a bit tight, however; she has lost her baby, is mad as heck and she knows who she is mad at. There are others of this gender and, daddies as well, which will stand up and shout you down.
The boys and girls are to be honored BUT not the leadership.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Sheila

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« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2005, 03:06:44 PM »
Does she realize how much the terrorist love her for this. The more people like her protest  the war, the more it encourages the terroists to kill the troops.
[


United we stand against Ovomit.

Offline powderman

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« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2005, 03:49:12 PM »
Quote from: Sheila
Does she realize how much the terrorist love her for this. The more people like her protest  the war, the more it encourages the terroists to kill the troops.


SHEILA. Right you are, and it's great to see you posting again. POWDERMAN.  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2005, 05:12:16 PM »
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2005, 06:23:10 PM »
Quote from: fe352v8
To who is “I”, referring to, in your post?

I am not trying to be argumentative, but it is not clear whose plan you are referring to.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon


Like Hell your not. Old Wizard and I do not always see eye to eye but to make fun of him for his language skills is kinda petty. If you want to argue with him for calling you " unread,unthinking,Liberal quoting Twit,think for yourself,read for your self." Go for it but do it like a man attacking his use of the language like I said is petty. Not all of us that may use the computer these days may remember every rule and the proper use of the language but as long as he gets his point across which he did well that works for most of us here. He may not use the King's English that well but I bet he has you beat in common sense or street smarts.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2005, 08:58:01 PM »
Jh45gun,

As both you and Intrepidwizard, are moderators:

It was you and Wiz who began with the personal debasing.

Jh you quoted my first post in this thread and then wrote the following in reference to my post:

“Go light a candle with the rest of the protesting pukes.  Â”

The implied subject in this sentence would be myself as you were referencing my post, ergo you have referred to me as a “protesting puke”.   I think by any stretch “puke”, in the context used is a rather derisive adjective.  I did not respond to you, in a like manner because this is a passionate issue, and I do not recall you ever engaging in a personal attack on me.

WizÂ’s post followed an exchange between POWDERMAN and I.

Let me take this opportunity to compliment POWDERMAN, he and I obviously have diametrically opposing views on a number of issues, however no matter how much he distains a view I may express in opposition to his, he has not stooped personal attacks.  I may strongly disagree with some of his positions but I admire the way he conducts himself.

Wiz directly referred to me as, “a unread,unthinking,Liberal quoting Twit”, and I would have ignored this little outburst as well, however Wiz , decided to follow this up on another topic in the Non Bible Study Religion Topics, about 6 minutes after calling me a “twit”, by writing:

“Fe,put down the Comic Books and read the big peoples books,like the Bible and then the Book of Mormon,the Damscus Documents and the other books of the "Bible" not in the bible and then think before you write and that goes for quoting the Moveon .org crap.”

At this point, it appeared to me that Wiz had decided I was to be special, and quite frankly, I became irritated.  I find name calling to be rather childish, and my initial reaction was to, use an equally childish response, “I am rubber you are glue, what ever you say bounces off me and stick to you”, however this was not particularly satisfying.  So I struck back using his own words against him.  True, it was petty to point out the lapses in grammar and syntax, but it allowed me to be insulting with out directly resorting to name-calling, and thus probably technically not violate this sights usage rule, against personal attacks.  

Personal Attacks are considered unacceptable at GBO and will result in removal from the GBO website, the manner in which these are handled will be at the discretion of the Administration. In cases of continued disagreements in open forum by multiple parties equal action will be taken with all involved parties, no one member will be shown special consideration in such cases regardless of membership status.

Jh You have now written:

 Â“If you want to argue with him for calling you " unread,unthinking,Liberal quoting Twit,think for yourself,read for your self." Go for it but do it like a man attacking his use of the language like I said is petty.”

Jh It seems you would prefer, I would have been more directly insulting; in my response, and that the method I used was unmanly.   A casual observer might think you are trying to “bait me” as described in this sights rules of usage:

Baiting Members, GBO has a zero tolerance policy for members who try to bait other members into violating the rules and "Terms of Use" of the GBO site. Those who bait other members while themselves trying to stay within the letter of the rules are in fact in "violation of the spirit of the rules". As such the member baiting another member is subject to the same actions by Moderators or Administrators as the baited member should the member then violate site rules in retaliation or in response to the baiting. This rule applies to all members of GBO regardless of membership status or rank.

I do not wish to play that game jh.  In retrospect I should have just ignored the name-calling.

So, Wiz, I apologize for the insinuations in my response to your posts, I was upset with being called a twit, and  by your post in the Non Bible Study Religion Topics, directed to me.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2005, 10:41:50 PM »
Nope not trying to bait you at all and while I did not call YOU a protesting puke directly I suppose I could see how you would take it that way. I guess I should have worded it better. Still I hate protesters even though they have the right as most of the time they are protesting against things I stand for like Hunting and Fishing, Guns, and while I think all wars are bad some times they are neccessary and I hate anti war protesters along with the tree and bunny huggers. In other words most liberals. While I do not hate you for what you have posted here as I do not know if you do any of the above I sure can disagree with you. To be honest old Wizzard and I do not really get along at all though I do not know why I guess I rubbed him the wrong way at one time as can happen here as I maybe did you. Still I stood up for him as not all of us here on the forum or any forum for that matter may be as literate as some. I probably read more books than most here I like to read but that does not make me no expert on the usage of the English language or punctuation. Like a lot of guys I hated it in school and some did not stick and some did. Also considering that many of the folks here have maybe not been in school for anywhere from  20 on up to 50 years or more we do forget things expecially if we have not used them for a while. I have a guide on punctuation somewhere here but I seldom use it. I still get my point across even if it has a few mistakes in it. SO stick up for your self on the substance of the post or attack for the same reason I do not care but to pick out the mechanics is kinda low. Even for a Liberal.  As far as us being moderators heck why should that stop you from stating your views or opinions? Hey we are mods here because GB asked us or we volunteered. That does not make us perfect and sometimes we may slip up too. If we do GB lets us know about it.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Sheila

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« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2005, 03:56:16 AM »
Fe, you're a liberal right, then what are you doing on a outdoor messageboard?
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Offline Sheila

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« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2005, 03:59:39 AM »
Quote from: fe352v8
Jh45gun,

As both you and Intrepidwizard, are moderators:

It was you and Wiz who began with the personal debasing.

Jh you quoted my first post in this thread and then wrote the following in reference to my post:

“Go light a candle with the rest of the protesting pukes.  Â”

The implied subject in this sentence would be myself as you were referencing my post, ergo you have referred to me as a “protesting puke”.   I think by any stretch “puke”, in the context used is a rather derisive adjective.  I did not respond to you, in a like manner because this is a passionate issue, and I do not recall you ever engaging in a personal attack on me.

WizÂ’s post followed an exchange between POWDERMAN and I.

Let me take this opportunity to compliment POWDERMAN, he and I obviously have diametrically opposing views on a number of issues, however no matter how much he distains a view I may express in opposition to his, he has not stooped personal attacks.  I may strongly disagree with some of his positions but I admire the way he conducts himself.

Wiz directly referred to me as, “a unread,unthinking,Liberal quoting Twit”, and I would have ignored this little outburst as well, however Wiz , decided to follow this up on another topic in the Non Bible Study Religion Topics, about 6 minutes after calling me a “twit”, by writing:

“Fe,put down the Comic Books and read the big peoples books,like the Bible and then the Book of Mormon,the Damscus Documents and the other books of the "Bible" not in the bible and then think before you write and that goes for quoting the Moveon .org crap.”

At this point, it appeared to me that Wiz had decided I was to be special, and quite frankly, I became irritated.  I find name calling to be rather childish, and my initial reaction was to, use an equally childish response, “I am rubber you are glue, what ever you say bounces off me and stick to you”, however this was not particularly satisfying.  So I struck back using his own words against him.  True, it was petty to point out the lapses in grammar and syntax, but it allowed me to be insulting with out directly resorting to name-calling, and thus probably technically not violate this sights usage rule, against personal attacks.  

Personal Attacks are considered unacceptable at GBO and will result in removal from the GBO website, the manner in which these are handled will be at the discretion of the Administration. In cases of continued disagreements in open forum by multiple parties equal action will be taken with all involved parties, no one member will be shown special consideration in such cases regardless of membership status.

Jh You have now written:

 Â“If you want to argue with him for calling you " unread,unthinking,Liberal quoting Twit,think for yourself,read for your self." Go for it but do it like a man attacking his use of the language like I said is petty.”

Jh It seems you would prefer, I would have been more directly insulting; in my response, and that the method I used was unmanly.   A casual observer might think you are trying to “bait me” as described in this sights rules of usage:

Baiting Members, GBO has a zero tolerance policy for members who try to bait other members into violating the rules and "Terms of Use" of the GBO site. Those who bait other members while themselves trying to stay within the letter of the rules are in fact in "violation of the spirit of the rules". As such the member baiting another member is subject to the same actions by Moderators or Administrators as the baited member should the member then violate site rules in retaliation or in response to the baiting. This rule applies to all members of GBO regardless of membership status or rank.

I do not wish to play that game jh.  In retrospect I should have just ignored the name-calling.

So, Wiz, I apologize for the insinuations in my response to your posts, I was upset with being called a twit, and  by your post in the Non Bible Study Religion Topics, directed to me.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon


Poor Mr.Fe, you were called a twit.
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Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2005, 06:44:02 AM »
Sheila,

You may have heard of, John Muir, his travels and writings in the late 1800s, led to the creation of the National Park and forests, started by Roosevelt.

Even by todayÂ’s standards, Muir was liberal and to the left, the far left.

As to name-calling, there is no reason why people cannot disagree, and express those disagreements, in a civil manner.  Especially when the disagreements take place in a forum such as this, where the personage of the presenters of opposing views, are only known by the arguments they present.  Thus debasing of an individual on a personal level is based on conjecture or assumption, or in simpler terms, ignorance.

This is not using ignorance in the pejorative sense; rather it refers to a lack of knowledge.

As to the original topic in this thread, Ms. SheehanÂ’s actions, the groups now in opposition to her actions, and even to a limited extent (at GBO discretion here) the posts on this forum, are all embodied and provided for by the First Amendment guaranteeÂ’s against government prohibitions preventing free speech and peaceable assemble to redress grievances against the government.

Whether you agree or disagree with, Ms. Sheehan, or for that matter, anyone else, or even the government, your right to express your view is one of the basic tenets of our form of government.

Ironically protecting these First Amendment rights is the primary cause and mission of an organization that receives very little positive comment here, the ACLU.

If it had not been for a leftyÂ’s like John Muir influencing, Roosevelt, much of the natural wonders of this country, would have been destroyed, and without the First Amendment, and the rest of the Bill of Rights, America would be a much different place.

A great deal of the outdoors we enjoy and the freedoms of expression we also enjoy have been, and are being fought for by liberals.  

It is Disgustingly ironic, that the mess left over from the train wrecks between the, Right and Left, has resulted in the greatest country in the world.  I do not think this America would be nearly the country it has become if it was not for the internal conflicts we have between liberal and conservative Americans.

Life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline Sheila

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« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2005, 08:09:22 AM »
Thank you so much for sticking to the topic.
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