Author Topic: Cindy Sheehan  (Read 5469 times)

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Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #90 on: August 26, 2005, 05:56:43 PM »
This is page 134 of the report, if you would like I have the entire report in a, pdf format, and would be happy to email it to you.  The text in red refers to the asylum referenced; it is clear from the context that this was believed, but was unconfirmed.  Of interest is the comment about our ally, Pakistan (in blue)

134
THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT
Final1-4.4pp 7/17/04 9:12 AM Page 134



effect. On January 12, 1999, Clarke wrote Berger that the CIA's confidence in
the tribals' reporting had increased. It was now higher than it had been on
December 20.

In February 1999,Allen proposed flying a U-2 mission over Afghanistan to
build a baseline of intelligence outside the areas where the tribals had cover-
age. Clarke was nervous about such a mission because he continued to fear that
Bin Ladin might leave for someplace less accessible. He wrote Deputy National
Security Advisor Donald Kerrick that one reliable source reported Bin Ladin's
having met with Iraqi officials, who "may have offered him asylum." Other
intelligence sources said that some Taliban leaders, though not Mullah Omar,
had urged Bin Ladin to go to Iraq. If Bin Ladin actually moved to Iraq, wrote
Clarke, his network would be at Saddam Hussein's service, and it would be "vir-
tually impossible" to find him. Better to get Bin Ladin in Afghanistan, Clarke
declared.

Berger suggested sending one U-2 flight, but Clarke opposed even
this. It would require Pakistani approval, he wrote; and "Pak[istan's]
intel[ligence service] is in bed with" Bin Ladin and would warn him that the
United States was getting ready for a bombing campaign: "Armed with that
knowledge, old wily Usama will likely boogie to Baghdad."

Though told also
by Bruce Riedel of the NSC staff that Saddam Hussein wanted Bin Ladin in
Baghdad, Berger conditionally authorized a single U-2 flight.Allen meanwhile
had found other ways of getting the information he wanted. So the U-2 flight
never occurred.

4.5 SEARCHING FOR FRESH OPTIONS
"Boots on the Ground?"
Starting on the day the August 1998 strikes were launched, General Shelton
had issued a planning order to prepare follow-on strikes and think beyond just
using cruise missiles.

The initial strikes had been called Operation Infinite
Reach. The follow-on plans were given the code name Operation Infinite
Resolve.
At the time, any actual military action in Afghanistan would have been car-
ried out by General Zinni's Central Command.This command was therefore
the locus for most military planning. Zinni was even less enthusiastic than
Cohen and Shelton about follow-on cruise missile strikes. He knew that the
Tomahawks did not always hit their targets. After the August 20 strikes, Presi-
dent Clinton had had to call Pakistani Prime Minister Sharif to apologize for
a wayward missile that had killed several people in a Pakistani village. Sharif
had been understanding, while commenting on American "overkill."

Zinni feared that Bin Ladin would in the future locate himself in cities,
where U.S. missiles could kill thousands of Afghans. He worried also lest Pak-
istani authorities not get adequate warning, think the missiles came from India,

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2005, 06:19:59 PM »
I am trough with you Fe you are to twisted,you left out on purpose taking out of contex Somalia,Mogadishu and most everything else,if you are going to argue you have to keep it all in inlcluding Clarks crap,Wilsons lies and on and on.you are the true example of the Brain Dead Zombie Left.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline mjbgalt

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Cindy Sheehan
« Reply #92 on: August 26, 2005, 06:38:15 PM »
never mind

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2005, 07:32:09 PM »
I posted the entire page, would you like the whole report, there is no confirmation of the "reliable source".  I left out nothing, the fact is that the report does not confirm your position as explicitly as you or the administration would lead people to believe.  Unlike most, I actually read this thing, instead of taking the word of political hacks.

Personally I could care less if you are through with me, some how I do not see that as of any consequence to me.

life is no joke but funny things happen

jon
life is no joke but funny things happen

jon

Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2005, 06:04:16 AM »
tsk tsk tsk
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Mike357mag

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Decisions have to be made
« Reply #95 on: August 28, 2005, 09:00:58 AM »
Decisions have to be made with the information you have available.  Just like every other war ever fought, if you wait for every little fact to be etched in stone you will never be able to make a decision.  So I guess we could wait for a wmd to be used, then we know he has them for sure,(OR I GUESS SOME PEOPLE WOULD THEN ARGUE IT WAS HIS ONLY ONE)  we could wait for B laden to go to Iraq for protection (not going to happen now)  By the time people like you would make a decision we would all be dead or muslims.  Also you would be reading this in some sort of arab language.  THE BOTTOM LINE IS HE DID NOT MEET un RESOLUTIONS, I GUESS WE COULD HAVE JUST BEGGED HIM TO FOLLOW THE SANCTIONS.  THE DIRT BAG COUNTRIES germany AND france DID NOT WANT THIS BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN ECONOMICAL REASONS.
ITS EASY TO SET BACK AND PLAY MAKE BELIEVE WITH THE FACTS, AND HIND SIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20.

Offline Leverdude

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Re: Decisions have to be made
« Reply #96 on: August 28, 2005, 12:51:45 PM »
Quote from: Mike357mag
Decisions have to be made with the information you have available.  Just like every other war ever fought, if you wait for every little fact to be etched in stone you will never be able to make a decision.  So I guess we could wait for a wmd to be used, then we know he has them for sure,(OR I GUESS SOME PEOPLE WOULD THEN ARGUE IT WAS HIS ONLY ONE)  we could wait for B laden to go to Iraq for protection (not going to happen now)  By the time people like you would make a decision we would all be dead or muslims.  Also you would be reading this in some sort of arab language.  THE BOTTOM LINE IS HE DID NOT MEET un RESOLUTIONS, I GUESS WE COULD HAVE JUST BEGGED HIM TO FOLLOW THE SANCTIONS.  THE DIRT BAG COUNTRIES germany AND france DID NOT WANT THIS BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN ECONOMICAL REASONS.
ITS EASY TO SET BACK AND PLAY MAKE BELIEVE WITH THE FACTS, AND HIND SIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20.



Your absalutely right. Thats why we went & overthrew Saddam & pounded his country into submission. Now we're done there. No ones suggesting we shouldnt have gone. The question is where to go from here & it doesn't look like we're going anywhere.  :roll:
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Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #97 on: August 28, 2005, 02:14:52 PM »
Mike-
Not to harp on the subject, just a thing to cogitate over.
Yes SOME decisions have need to be made with the available information at hand.
Buying a pizza comes to mind.
It can also be equally true that you are responsible for using such information and it turns out to be faulty or untrue.
Assulting a house of reported bad guys and then finding out that all which live there are useful, employed folks. Sorry I busted up your door and broke your nose, but my information was that you were armed and dangerous. OOPS.
Well that does not justify being wrong. In most serious scenes one must be absoulutely correct. Bush was not and really was not in a position to press the panic button, he just did it because he was in a panic (political, more than likely).
Could have done such after the Bay of Pigs, fortunately the leadership was cooler than the military, also more correct.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #98 on: August 28, 2005, 03:11:28 PM »
You know Layton I was going to post some info you don't get that is common to the Military from a 07 and a 06 Retired who were at SOCOM recently advising ,but you know it just is not worth it you just don't pay attention to the truth at all ----------ever and you are not alone.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline 30-30man

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« Reply #99 on: August 28, 2005, 03:38:51 PM »
The whole anti-war thing is gaining ground for one big reason.  The thing that's got a lot of people turning away from support is the economy.  People are losing their jobs everyday and the cost of living is out of control.  The thing that bothers me about the whole mess is that what are we accomplishing for the US?  I support our President and anyone in the Armed Services. I hold all of them with the deepest respect.  I have done my part and served during the Cuban Missile Crisis.(Now you Know how old I am)   The US is no safer now after the war.  We have had  sky high fuel cost since the war.  The cost of living has gone way up.  Who is going to pay the cost of the war?  Why can't we use the Iraqi oil to pay the cost of the war and flood the market?  The price of high fuel cost and the no light at the end of the tunnel has a lot of people turned against our President.  This has hit everyone hard and people blame the war and the President.  I drive a dodge pickup.  Before the war it cost me 25$ to fill it up and now it cost 63$.  This has hit America harder than He wants to admit.  People are hating the war because of this.  My .002

Offline fe352v8

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« Reply #100 on: August 28, 2005, 07:36:42 PM »
I think mounting casualties and the administrations shifting rationales for, invading Iraq have had a far greater effect upon the anti-war movement.  The reasons for continuing our current policies, “to leave now, would dishonor the sacrifices of those who have died, or they cannot be allowed to have died in vain”, is on face illogical and disingenuous, if it is not illogical then there are over 58,000 reasons to invade Viet Nam.

Some members of the administration had long held a view of a permanent US presence in the Middle East, especially one that would allow for one in direct proximity to oil reserves.  Iraq was a target of convenience; it would fulfill long-term strategic aspirations.  Announce a policy of preemption; present a series of suppositions and conjectures about, 9/11, Saddam and an Ossam, add a UN resolution, and then denounce the UN for not defining serious consequences, as war, and it is off to Iraq.

Strategic decisions are made on hard evidence, not supposition; you may have to make tactical decisions on best available information as they require immediate attention, but strategic issues are not of an imminent nature.  The 9/11 Commission report does not provide the hard tactical or even strategic evidence for the invasion of Iraq, and as time passes it appears more likely that, this administration, took that lack of hard contrary evidence as confirmation of their predisposed views, in other words, there is no evidence against it so that is evidence for it.

The bottom line is the UN did not sanction the invasion, this was a decision made by this administration unilaterally.  With no disrespect to our “coalition” partners it is the US bearing the brunt of the casualties and the expense of invading Iraq.

The question now is how to bring about the best possible outcome in Iraq.  Current policies have resulted in fewer hours of electricity, more deaths and violence, less potable water, lower oil production, and greater sectarian division then before the war.  The draft constitutionÂ’s rejection by the Sunni representatives does not bode well, and the only contingency being offered is “stay the course”.  Well the administrationÂ’s course has led us on to the reefs of reality, either you come up with a different idea or your ship gets pounded to pieces on the reef.

To leave now would be wrong, not because of those who have died, but because of the average citizens in Iraq.  Powel was right, “you break it you own it”, because of the sectarian and tribal rivalries, animosities, and divisions it will be years, perhaps decades before the Iraq will be stable and self governing.  Trying to internationalize the current situation, is like calling the plumber after trying to fix it yourself, it always cost more, especially when the plumber is the UN, and you have berated them for the last five years, or NATO where two of the largest members, France and Germany were less than receptive to the invasion and were chastised vehemently for their opposition.

This administration has isolated us as regards Iraq, if the outcome is to be positive it will have to be at our initiative, and “staying the course” is not working.  To succeed we will need to deploy 50 to 100,000 additional combat troops, and systematically secure an area and then extend outward from this secured area, securing weapons caches and destroying resistance when met.  Currently we patrol and temporarily occupy, then when we leave the insurgency returns, much as in the early days of Viet Nam.  By the end of Viet Nam, we had learned to maintain a permanent presence in the village, extend the secure perimeter, destroy resistance, and the village was ours, but leave and the VC were back the next day.  Staying the course is not a plan for success it is face saving rhetoric for a poorly planned strategy.  You can blame the media, or the antis or the man in the moon, but the real fault, if we fail, is this administration and itsÂ’ leaders.

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Offline jh45gun

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« Reply #101 on: August 28, 2005, 10:02:40 PM »
I wish we could use that oil and flood the market but bottom line is its not ours to use even though we are liberating the country. If we took over that oil it would take us from being liberators to invaders and conquerors something I think we do not want to portray to the world. There is no shortage of oil not now anyway. There are a bunch of situations like the folks who raise the barrels of oil for speculation which is wrong. This current huricane that will hit Louisiana will jack up oil prices again yet what we get there is a drop in the bucket. What we need is a price ceiling on what the oil companies can charge. That will never happen though it makes too much sense. Another thing is knock off the zone BS so the refineries can refine one kind of gas not one for every place that has to have or demands something different. We can thank the tree huggers for that one I bet. Jim
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #102 on: August 29, 2005, 02:08:01 AM »
IW-
I doubt you have such information or that it is reliable, however; If you do post it. I generally read all that appears to be reliable.
Why do you think that I have no mind? Just because I do not agree with you to jot and tittle, without any disagreement?
I am sorry that I have failed your expectations. I had no idea your opinion was without fault.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline powderman

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« Reply #103 on: August 29, 2005, 07:03:02 AM »
The un didn't sanction the invasion because they are cowards. Saddam ignored the treaty that he agreed to during the klintoon reign of debauchery and immorality with the blessings of the klintoon klan. The very 1st time they refused access to any site, the inspectors should have left and tried again the next day. If they were denied again, the entire site should have been bombed into oblivion. The next day they would try another site. The process would have been repeated as necessary. Saddams refusal alone was enough reason to invade.
He said he had WMDS, the entire world believed him. Every dumcrap in the United States AGREED that he had them. Satelite photos showed several large caravans of trucks going into syria before the war began. There is no doubt in my mind that the WMDS were real, and are now in syria. Even the dumcraps know this, but they would rather tear down our nation than give support to a Republican president. After 9-11-01 our nation pulled together, for a short time, then the aclu crawled out from under their rock and joined the dumcraps as they once again did everything they could to disrupt, and destroy America. saddam and his sons delighted in dropping people feet first in grinders to listen to them scream as they were slowly ground into pulp. They needed killing, 2 down, him to go. He spawned a hatred and sickness that is still going on. Saddam, osama, and others like them, are  Godless, subhuman, SOBS, that breed hatred, and murder of all non muslims. This is a WAR we are in, this isn't game time, it's WAR. Islam against the world. I pray the world wakes up and sees them for the cancer they are before it's too late. POWDERMAN.  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :x  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #104 on: August 29, 2005, 07:44:35 AM »
Powder,people on this Forum don't get it so how is the world going to get it.We have come up in four years with evidence ,facts over and over and they still don't get it on this Forum.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline williamlayton

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« Reply #105 on: August 29, 2005, 12:36:17 PM »
I do not agree with your evidence and find it faulty. Others have show equal evidence which you disagree with, or, do not get it.
Seems like I have seen this spot in the road before. I could swear we have been past this barn before.
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Offline IntrepidWizard

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« Reply #106 on: August 29, 2005, 12:55:21 PM »
unlike you Willy it is not my "evidence" it is the evidence as presented by the UN,CIA,FBI,Clinton,Congress,Bush,Brits French,and on and on we go and you have by passed the barn for the still each time.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline Mike357mag

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Bottom line is we are doing what the un was supposed to do
« Reply #107 on: August 29, 2005, 01:07:56 PM »
Bottom line is we are doing what the un was supposed to do.  Yeah we got Saddam but if we pack up now another dictator will be in charge in about 4 hours.  He will then kill pro american people and any other group that is not his own.  The easiest way for him to rally support is, guess what to speak about killing american.  In other words another sadam by another name.  If the un would do what they are and were suppose to things would be different.  Their is no comparision to going into a house of bad guys accidently and finding out the information is wrong.  Following that kind of logic we would never be able to do anything but react to what has already happened.  I guess we could set and wait for another 911 to happen and react to that because we have proof positive.  But after about 4 or 5 911s people would think differently.  I guess all soldiers accidently committing friendly fire accidents should get 30 years because they acted on false information also.  Thinking that a target two miles away is the enemy and not a lost us army patrol.

Mike H

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #108 on: August 29, 2005, 03:03:07 PM »
Quote
This is a WAR we are in, this isn't game time, it's WAR. Islam against the world. I pray the world wakes up and sees them for the cancer they are before it's too late. POWDERMAN



Exactly. & in a war you dont help your enemy  do you? So is it over or isn't it? This is rediculous. Your calling Islam a cancer & argueng that we should stay in Iraq ,help them build ther country & keep them from killing each other. Iraq is full of muslims & I see no reason not to believe the Iraqi's that say they like us aint the same ones planting roadside bombs.
Nobody has said we should have done nothing. We did what the rest of the world wouldn't do, more likely for poltical reasons than cowardice or they knew if they sat by the good ole USA would foot the bill.

As far as plundering their oil I'd have no problem with it. They wouldn't have it if not for us anyhow & theyre just Godless subhumans remember.
Want justifcation, how much does the mideast owe us collectively? A billion or so a week for way over a year in Iraq alone.  :roll:
Either theyre the enemy or theyre not, either its over or its not. If its not over then we are a nation of idiots for wasting time & lives aiding Iraq.

We keep this up it'll destroy our economy & stretch us so thin we won't be invincible anymore.

We need to ether act like we are in a war or come home period.
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Offline Leverdude

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Re: Bottom line is we are doing what the un was supposed to
« Reply #109 on: August 29, 2005, 03:26:49 PM »
Quote from: Mike357mag
Bottom line is we are doing what the un was supposed to do.  Yeah we got Saddam but if we pack up now another dictator will be in charge in about 4 hours.  He will then kill pro american people and any other group that is not his own.  The easiest way for him to rally support is, guess what to speak about killing american.  In other words another sadam by another name.  

Mike H


And what pray tell makes you think thats not gonna happen regardless?
Even if Iraq does succumb to our wishes, unless we're there to save their butt their neighbors will be at war with them once we're gone.


If we werent there they wouldnt be killing us. Dont bring up 9/11 ether as the Iraq fight isn't about that anyway. Fact is tho that we were there pre 9/11 with full knowledge that we weren't welcome.  Only the rich over there are happy about our presence as it secures theyre positions. I'd be willing to bet the monarchy in Saudi Arabia falls in a month if we leave the area entirely.

A simple analogy my Grandfather used to say was "S#it or get off the pot"
Seems apropriate regarding Iraq.

Kill Saddam, no trial necessary & come home.
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Offline ironglow

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« Reply #110 on: September 04, 2005, 12:00:24 PM »
Unless we have very short memories, we all should be able to recall that Saddam turned the inspectors away AND fired on our planes as they patrolled the " no fly zone"...both conditions to which Saddam agreed..

   With NO OTHER words said, those two points are enough to justify his regime change..CASE CLOSED
   
   ..to any rational thinker...


   BTW...Since the treagedy of Katrina...at lest the daffy Sheehanites are out of the limelight.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #111 on: September 05, 2005, 03:26:38 PM »
Quote from: ironglow
Unless we have very short memories, we all should be able to recall that Saddam turned the inspectors away AND fired on our planes as they patrolled the " no fly zone"...both conditions to which Saddam agreed..

   With NO OTHER words said, those two points are enough to justify his regime change..CASE CLOSED
   
   




Agreed. :grin:
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Offline swiftman

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« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2005, 02:01:15 PM »
When this counrty signs the UN treaty to ban all civilian small arms when the democrats are in control, what then? They were ready to try but Gore lost to Bush. Just wait till Hillary is president for the real fun to start.

Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2005, 02:10:32 PM »
i wont be giving mine up...what do you guys think??

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #114 on: September 08, 2005, 03:55:42 PM »
What do I think?
Screw the UN, thats what I think.
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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #115 on: September 08, 2005, 04:08:47 PM »
according to the church of leverdude. ;)

and all GBO's people say.....amen.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline rockbilly

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« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2005, 05:22:34 PM »
:cry: As a young man I was easy to impress, I answered the call to duty and served two tours in Vietnam.  Why?  Because I thought we were doing something to free the people of SEA and make the world a better place.  As I watched the withdrawal from Vietnam on TV I couldn't make up my mind if I wanted to puke or cry.  I was sick to see the greatest country in the world retreat like a bunch of scared dogs, I wanted to cry for the brothers lost in combat for no valid cause.  I see this war as Vietnam revisited.  We are involved in a conflict we can not win short of killing every muslin in the world.  I am afraid my six year old grand son will be fighting this same war when he comes of age.

I served 24 years, eight months and 22 days active duty and retired from the USAF in 1977.  I have worked with the military in a civilian capacity fro the past 27 years.  I talk to the young troops daily, both Air Force and Marines some support the war, but most don't.  Most have no idea what combat is all about, one young Marine told me he wanted to go to Iraq to "win a purple heart".  I asked if he knew what was required to get a purple heart, he answered no.  When you have these TV induced youth group military members you can expect them to go along with anything some fool in Washington tells them to.  It's just a big video game.

Let me say, I willingly support any action against any country or group that presents a threat to our way of life. Iraq was no threat to us.  There is no proof they supported and participated in the attack on the twin towers.  If we were just in entering this war, what next, North Korea, Iran?  I agree a change in Iraq was overdue, but what valid justification can we use to support our being there?

Look back, after we get out, and ask yourself (if you are still alive then), what did we really accomplish?  I will be willing to bet, it's another defeat to American military power.  Have we won a war since WW II?

God bless America, and all those mothers who lost sons in this unjust war.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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Cindy Sheehan
« Reply #117 on: September 08, 2005, 05:35:45 PM »
I am ashamed of you Rockbilly.Korean War Vet.But I can understand a AirFarce REMF Puke saying what you said and believe.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline Leverdude

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« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2005, 01:06:23 PM »
I'm sure he's heartbroken Wiz.  :roll:   Some of you guys are as narrow minded as any liberal out there. Mr Bush can make a mistake or misjudgement just as anyone can. One of the biggest flaws in our leadership for more than a little while is the inability to admit a mistake.  Cant correct a bad call if you refuse to adress it. A man admits his mistakes & learns from them. IMHO anyway.  :grin:
Freedoms not free!
Support your NRA!

Offline IntrepidWizard

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Cindy Sheehan
« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2005, 01:26:36 PM »
I understand that Dude and accept it -----where is the mistake.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington