.17hmr vs. .22 magnum

[cowpolks]

I have read alot of info on these 2 cartridges with alot of conflicting information. I would like to know which of the 2 cartridges is affected by wind more from someone who has experience with both rounds??

[KN]

I have a lot of experience with the 17 but not much with the 22mag. The 17 will blow around some but every thing I have read about the two says that they will blow about the same. !7 being lighter but faster, and the 22 being slower but heavier. Its a trade off. You will probably get just as much conflicting info here as well. The two cartridges seem to have a love hate relationship with their followers. Personally I love the 17. Great on prairie dogs out to about 225yds.   KN

[Lawdog]

I tried both on the same windy day and found that the .17 HMR di drift more in the wind.  About a 1/2" more at 125 yards in a 5 - 10 mph cross wind.  Seeing the type of critters I hunt I stayed with the .22 WMR.  The best thing I can say about the .17 HMR is that it caused the ammo manufacturs to start bringing out better ammo with better more accurate bullets for the .22 WMR.  Lawdog
 

[Andy2590]

I have shot both a lot, and I perfer the 17hmr.  It does blow less in the wind, despite what the hardcore heavier bullet 22mag guys think... :grin:   It is also a lot more accurate in most cases.  I can consistenly get .75" or less avg. at 100 yards.  You would be happy with either, and even more happy with both.   :grin:    If most of your shots are under 100 yards, I think you might have an advantage with the 22 mag because at that range it has more power.  At about 120 yards I think the 17hmr gains the power advantage, and also the accuracy will be better for longer distances.  The little difference in power won't make much of a difference in killing though.  Both are great cartridges, but I perfer the 17.

[cowpolks]

Thanks for everyones help. Most of my shots will be over 100 yards and around 150 yards. I am leaning towards the .17hmr as I like the accuracy and the longer range. Does anyone know what the Savage .17hmr's are like, how is the trigger and the accuracy??

[quickdtoo]

Check out the 17hmr, Savage and Marlin forums at RFC, lots of info there for you to digest!!

www.rimfirecentral.com

[Keith L]

Most of my shots will be over 100 yards and around 150 yards.

At 150 yards with a .22 mag all you can do is poke and hope.  With a 17 HMR you will get under a one inch group with careful shooting.  You won't have all that much power with either of them.  If you are hunting much over a gopher at that range you would be better off with a centerfire.

[moontroll]

.22 mags rule,but the.17's are more accurate. :grin:

[tuck2]

I shoot a Cooper LVT 17 HMR and a Kimber 82 22 WMR .I used the web site Http://www.huntingnut.com/  Point Blank Ballistics Software to see what the drop , energy , and wind drift would be at various yards for the .172 dia 17 Gr, V-Max bullet at a MV of 2550 ft/sec ( BC 0.125 and the .224 dia 30 Gr.Sierra JHP bullet at a MV of 2200 ft/sec ( BS 0.078)( Federal Premium Ammo).With a 10 MPH  90 degree cross wind the 17 Gr bullet drifted 2.5 inches and the 30 Gr bullet drifted 3.3 inches  At 150 yds  17 Gr bullet drifted 3.7 inches ,the 30 Gr bullet 8.1 inch. The Remington 33 Gr WMR round would have less wind drift than the 30 Gr bullet  because of the higher BC. I have shot a lot of prairie dogs with both rifles . At 200 Yds the 40 GR WMR has more energy while the 17 Gr 17 HMR has less drop and wind drift.   Have fun - go to the huntingnut web site and enter the bullet Dia. Grain. and ft/sec. of the ammo you wont to use. There has ben a lot of fussen over which is the best round but I like each of them.

[tuck2]

I shoot a Cooper LVT 17 HMR and a Kimber 82 22 WMR .I used the web site Http://www.huntingnut.com/  Point Blank Ballistics Software to see what the drop , energy , and wind drift would be at various yards for the .172 dia 17 Gr, V-Max bullet at a MV of 2550 ft/sec ( BC 0.125) and the .224 dia 30 Gr.Sierra JHP bullet at a MV of 2200 ft/sec ( BC 0.078)( Federal Premium Ammo).With a 10 MPH  90 degree cross wind the 17 Gr bullet drifted 2.5 inches and the 30 Gr bullet drifted 3.3 inches  At 150 yds  17 Gr bullet drifted 3.7 inches ,the 30 Gr bullet 8.1 inch. The Remington 33 Gr WMR round would have less wind drift than the 30 Gr bullet  because of the higher BC. I have shot a lot of prairie dogs with both rifles . At 200 Yds the 40 GR WMR has more energy while the 17 Gr 17 HMR has less drop and wind drift.   Have fun - go to the huntingnut web site and enter the bullet Dia. Grain. and ft/sec. of the ammo you wont to use. There has ben a lot of fussen over which is the best round but I like each of them.

[Lawdog]

tuck2,

If you get a chance try the 35 gr. Hornady V-Max load for the .22 WMR from Outland Sales.  http://www.outlandsales.com/vmax.html  these will shoot right with any 17 or 20 gr. load out of the .17 HMR and they hit harder.  Lawdog
 

[bzzrd feedr]

I'm a newbie here, I saw the post from LawDog on the 35gr. ammo. I checked it out and it is over twice as much as 17hmr ammo. Darn near .40 cents a shell?  Too rich for my blood. Heck you can buy high quality 223 ammo for less than that.  dale

[mag-check]

Ive shot the custom 35gr. v-max 22 magnum ammo and for one thing it chronographed way lower then OSSI said it would I got 1,940fps out of it from 24" barrel and out of a 20" barrel it was even lower! At almost $20 a box they can keep it. Now the Remington/CCI 33gr. v-max is very accurate and Ive gotten velocitys as high as 2,170fps. and that was for an average! If you look around you can find it for under $10 a box. I also like the Winchester 34gr. Supreme. These rounds hit alot harder then any of the 17HMR ammo. So you have to aim a little higher so What :grin: The other hyper velocity round that I like is the CCI or Federal 30gr. ammo the CCI +V hits and flys alot better then the Velocity/Trajectory spec sheet says it does! Set my chronograph up at 100yds. one time to just see how fast the 30gr. ammo was going at that distance and got veloctys of 1,522fps. and velocitys at the muzzle were over 2,350fps. And that little round hits way harder then any 17HMR ammo out there! Not my 2cents worth, but fact! :wink: Mag-Check

[jon164]

Ive shot the custom 35gr. v-max 22 magnum ammo and for one thing it chronographed way lower then OSSI said it would I got 1,940fps out of it from 24" barrel and out of a 20" barrel it was even lower! At almost $20 a box they can keep it. Now the Remington/CCI 33gr. v-max is very accurate and Ive gotten velocitys as high as 2,170fps. and that was for an average! If you look around you can find it for under $10 a box. I also like the Winchester 34gr. Supreme. These rounds hit alot harder then any of the 17HMR ammo. So you have to aim a little higher so What :grin: The other hyper velocity round that I like is the CCI or Federal 30gr. ammo the CCI +V hits and flys alot better then the Velocity/Trajectory spec sheet says it does! Set my chronograph up at 100yds. one time to just see how fast the 30gr. ammo was going at that distance and got veloctys of 1,522fps. and velocitys at the muzzle were over 2,350fps. And that little round hits way harder then any 17HMR ammo out there! Not my 2cents worth, but fact! :wink: Mag-Check

Mag-check,

I saw some of your posts at rfc and so-called "facts" Yes that 30 grain round in 22 mag does show high than advertised velocity but so does the HMR.  So what ever big difference in power is basically cancelled out.  I own a 22mag as well and have seen very different results from what you claim.

"Fact"  The 22 mag loses any power advantage over 100 yards
"Fact"  The 22 mag is not as accurate

[jon164]

tuck2,

If you get a chance try the 35 gr. Hornady V-Max load for the .22 WMR from Outland Sales.  http://www.outlandsales.com/vmax.html  these will shoot right with any 17 or 20 gr. load out of the .17 HMR and they hit harder.  Lawdog
 

I have tried them,  they are a waste of money and show no real performance increase over the 33grv-max.

And I also have a HMR I have yet to see a 22mag "shoot right with" my HMR.

[Lawdog]

When I did my comparison between the .17 HMR and the .22 WMR I did so in like Ruger 77’s - a Ruger 77/17 and a 77/22M.  Seeing that the standard Ruger .17 HMR comes with a .22” barrel and my 77/22M has a Green Mountain 22” barrel, everything was more on an equal playing field.  I chronographed the .17 HMR(Remington 17 gr. AccuTip) ammo and it doesn’t come up to the advertised 2,550 either.  I got an average of just over 2,100 fps. from the 22” Ruger.  I also shoot the Remington 33 gr. AccuTip out of my 22” Ruger and get 1,963 fps.  I get an average of 2,042 fps. from the Outland Sales .22 WMR ammo.  I don’t use them very much because of the price(I never said they were cheap) but what they show is the rimfire ammo companies are bringing out .22 ammo(both magnum and long rifle) with better, more accurate bullets.  We have the .17 HMR to thank for this.  As far as accuracy goes there wasn’t enough difference between them to worry about.  Game performance is what I care about and the .17 HMR doesn’t kill well on animals over 15 - 15 pounds(I’ve tried).  On smaller game such tree squirrels and small rabbits it is way to explosive if you have to take a body shot(I prefer to have something left over to eat(don’t care for bloody jello).  Sorry but I’ll take my .22 WMR over the .17 HMR any day.  Lawdog
 

[mag shooter]

Well said Lawdog!!!!!!

[Keith L]

I chronographed the .17 HMR(Remington 17 gr. AccuTip) ammo and it doesn’t come up to the advertised 2,550 either. I got an average of just over 2,100 fps. from the 22” Ruger.

You got bad ammo or you need to have your crono checked.   I have never gotten slower than advertised speed.  I got faster than 2100 fps from a 14 inch Contender barrel

[Lawdog]

Keith L,

You got bad ammo or you need to have your crono checked.

Sorry, but the ammo(both boxes) was brand new Remington ammo that hadn't been in the store for more than a couple of weeks.  Blame it on the Remington ammo?   :?:   The velocity is an average that was taken from two different chronographs.  By the way I have my chronograph tested against others every few months.  I like to make sure it’s readings are accurate.  Lawdog
 

[Keith L]

Keith L,

You got bad ammo or you need to have your crono checked.

Sorry, but the ammo(both boxes) was brand new Remington ammo that hadn't been in the store for more than a couple of weeks.  Blame it on the Remington ammo?   :?:   The velocity is an average that was taken from two different chronographs.  By the way I have my chronograph tested against others every few months.  I like to make sure it’s readings are accurate.  Lawdog
 

Your readings are not typical for the round.  It directly contradicts all the published and anecdotal evidence I have seen.  The most likely answer is not that the rest of the world is wrong, but that there is a problem with the one test that is different.

[Lawdog]

Keith L,

You got bad ammo or you need to have your crono checked.

Sorry, but the ammo(both boxes) was brand new Remington ammo that hadn't been in the store for more than a couple of weeks.  Blame it on the Remington ammo?   :?:   The velocity is an average that was taken from two different chronographs.  By the way I have my chronograph tested against others every few months.  I like to make sure it’s readings are accurate.  Lawdog
 

Your readings are not typical for the round.  It directly contradicts all the published and anecdotal evidence I have seen.  The most likely answer is not that the rest of the world is wrong, but that there is a problem with the one test that is different.

You shouldn't believe everything that's published.  Remember that most of the published data is being paid for by the manufacture.  Of course they are going to be favorable.  By the way I'm not the only person to get these type of velocity readings from the .17 HMR.  I have never said that the .17 HMR isn’t a good cartridge, for what it was designed for.  But it is not the miracle cartridge that many want others to believe.  If you’re a lover of the .17 HMR and I stepped  on your toes I apologize but I will keep reporting what happened on the tests that I did.  Lawdog
 

[Keith L]

You shouldn't believe everything that's published. Remember that most of the published data is being paid for by the manufacture. Of course they are going to be favorable. By the way I'm not the only person to get these type of velocity readings from the .17 HMR. I have never said that the .17 HMR isn’t a good cartridge, for what it was designed for. But it is not the miracle cartridge that many want others to believe. If you’re a lover of the .17 HMR and I stepped on your toes I apologize but I will keep reporting what happened on the tests that I did. Lawdog

I have tested and my results indicated the speeds advertised were somewhat slower than mine.  It is fraud if manufacturers claim results their product can't make.  If your results were for real the ammo would be off the market by now.  In this lawsuit happy world someone would be sueing and we would have heard about it.

As for stepping on my toes, I have three 17 HMRs and 3 .22 mags.  I shoot the mags more than the HMRs.  I like them both, and agree that the HMRs are not suitable for larger game.  I gave up on Rimfire Central with all the bozos claiming to hunt larger game with 17HMRs (yotes, goats, and a bear).  Some guys seem to think this is like ultra light fishing tackle.  I think it is criminal cruelty to animals and I want no part of that.

But it doesn't do any argument much good to use faulty data.  2100 fps for .17 HMR is not normal, and I stand by you needing to check your test.  Something is wrong.

[Lawdog]

Keith L,

But it doesn't do any argument much good to use faulty data. 2100 fps for .17 HMR is not normal, and I stand by you needing to check your test. Something is wrong.

The data wasn't faulty(too many others have gotten the same or about the same results) and seeing that I didn't purchase that rifle(the store owner finally sold it about 6 months later) there is no way I can run the test again.  I am not going to purchase a .17 HMR as I have no desire/need for one.  I have a close friend(state contract hunter - he is another one that got about the same velocity data that I did) that owned a .17 HMR but he traded it in on a Savage Model 12 Varmint in the new .204 Ruger for his work.  Of course if you want to send me one of your rifles  :-D  I'll be glad to purchase some more of the same ammo and run the tests again.  Lawdog
 

[Keith L]

Thats what I thought.  Have a great life Lawdog.

[mag-check]

I got 2,640fps out of my Ruger shooting the 17gr. V-max. And around 2,450fps out of the 20gr.XTP. I had an Oehler model 33 Chronograph that I was using at the time sold it awhile back need to get another one. Theres just not enough bullet mass and bullet diameter to make the 17HMR even close to having the knock down power of the 22 magnum! Did a test last year, took the HMR and 20gr. XTP and shot it into wet newspaper then did the same thing with a 22LR 40gr. Velocitor. The 22lR out penetrated the HMR now thats pretty bad if you ask me! Mag-Check

[bzzrd feedr]

Lawdog  We are close enough that we may be able to do some testing. I'll bring a couple of chrono's and alot of  22wmr's, 17 hmrs, ammo in a lots of different flavors and do some testing.  Where are you at in NorCal? I'm in Stanislaus Co. I'd like to see this 2100fps 17 ammo.  Dale

[TeePee]

A THOUGHT TO PONDER. I know he said she said, but!  I here talk from some who shoot a lot of 17hmr that something has maybe changed. That the newer lotts of 17 may have declined somewhat in performance but not noticable accuracy. You know to cut cost, higher profit. Some that hunt PD's say that the newer lotts just punch a hole instead making an explosive hit at ranges their use to shooting them at. At times a solid hit but not a klean kill, a second shot to finish? thats not 17hmr! AS for myself I can't say still got plenty of older lotts. I would hope this isn't the norm. A different maybe cheaper powder load, or a little less of what they been using. OK I've probably just gone over the deep end, BUTT COULD IT BE!! :shock:

[aulrich]

TeePee
Your not completely off the deep end  I did notice a difference in the Federal v-max ammo from last year to this year, But it struck me that the bullets were slightly tougher.  But this is only going by precieved splater factor and some more richocets this year.  

But 400 fps would be hard to hide, especially after you cross 100 yards.  I don't have a crony so all I can go by is the ballisitc tables and how mine compares on the range and the field, and I am getting really close to expected results.  And even unexpected results, the unexpected result was how easy it was to hit past 150.

[Oldtimer]

Regarding the accuracy of the Savage 93, I just shot mine at 150 yards the other day, from a front rest ( I had left my sandbags at home, and got 1- 1.5 inch groups.  The trigger is heavier than I would like, but I have yet to shim it, so my gun is purely stock.  So far, I have only seen one gun, a switchbarrel pistol, that would not shoot .17 HMR well.   That pistol purely loved .22 Magnum, though.

[S.S.]

Not to argue velocity or accuracy but I have found that the
.22 mag has better penetration at about any given
Reasonable rimfire range. Don't get me wrong, I love them
both and the Mach 2 as well but My experience leads me in
the direction of the .22 Mag as a better and cleaner killer
on a much wider variety of game. And besides, My good
ol .22 Long rifle still does just about every thing I normally
would call on a rimfire to do anyway...And it does it a whole
lot cheaper.