Author Topic: is the Lee 44mag 3 die set is good enough for the 445SM? (Read 1777 times)

jeff223 · « **on:** August 26, 2005, 11:35:07 AM »

what do you think?just back them out to do the job on the longer 445sm case?a have a Lee 3 die set in 357mag and they work fine for the 357max.should be good enough

.308 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2005, 11:55:51 AM »

I'm a hoping they are cause that's what I have and was intending to use.

Maybe Digger will hop in here and let us know if they will work or if he is using .445 Super dies. :wink:

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2005, 12:26:42 PM »

Thats what I have as well but may need a crimp die too

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2005, 02:33:15 PM »

Just sent an e-mail to LEE to ask them about this very question , we'll see what they say.

I'll keep you posted

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2005, 04:36:44 PM »

I just use the 44 mag. dies from RCBS,and they work fine.I don't know about the lee dies though.You guy's hurry up and get those things shooting,you're not going to believe your chrono. Digger

.308 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 27, 2005, 04:55:17 AM »

Quote from: Ditchdigger

You guy's hurry up and get those things shooting,you're not going to believe your chrono. Digger

Speaking of 'chronos' can you give me a recommendation on a good one that I won't have to take out a second mortage for.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2005, 05:04:50 AM »

Quote from: .308

Quote from: Ditchdigger
You guy's hurry up and get those things shooting,you're not going to believe your chrono. Digger

Speaking of 'chronos' can you give me a recommendation on a good one that I won't have to take out a second mortage for.

I've seen this question asked many times and the most recommended chrony is the Shooting Chrony F-1 Master or Beta.....$50-$100. I bought the F-1 Master, it works great, has a remote readout with a 15ft cord, resets itself at the next shot, works great!!

http://www.ontargetsportsonline.com/Shooting_Accs/ShootingChrony/ShootingChrony.asp

http://www.eabco.com/chronyshooting.htm

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2005, 05:27:23 AM »

Thats the crony I use as well, you can have the read out next to you.

For those of you who want a separate crimp die dillion makes one for 17.99

http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=28&min=1&dyn=1&

I have used their 41 mag crimp & like it if you like crimping in a separate step

I think I will pick one up later & give it a go

Varminter · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2005, 06:51:47 AM »

I hope they are good enough, that's what i had planned on using. Why do i need a crimp die?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2005, 07:00:51 AM »

Using a good crimp will result in consistency in pressure reducing the spread in velocity differences from shot to shot......as reported by most that have tried it. I've used both the roll crimp and a Lee FCD, I prefer the Lee on the 45-70.

http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1125162247.5929=/html/catalog/dies-crimp.html

Varminter · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2005, 07:03:44 AM »

Lee makes a crimp die for the 44mag. Think that would be good enough.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2005, 07:10:25 AM »

Yup....for the 44mag, but I don't think it will work on the 445SM, my 45-70 FCD won't work on the 45-120 cuz it works at the top of the stroke when the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die, on the longer cases, the shell holder wouldn't contact the die body, it just runs the cartrridge all the way thru the die without crimping it.

Lee FCD

.308 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2005, 11:40:16 AM »

I'm just trying to be helpful here is all so I copied this from the Midway.com site, it's a review of the Lee FCD in .44 spl./.44 Mag., item #563825.

Jim Crupi of Sacramento, CA
Rating:
Date Posted: 4/17/2004

Review:
I use this on .445 Supermag loads. Iron-clad crimp. Better consistency than other dies, and if I am still going to use a single stage press, it might as well be right the first time!

Was this review helpful? Yes | No
6 found it helpful | 0 did not

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=563825

.308 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2005, 05:12:20 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

the most recommended chrony is the Shooting Chrony F-1 Master or Beta.....$50-$100. I bought the F-1 Master, it works great, has a remote readout with a 15ft cord, resets itself at the next shot, works great!!

What's the major difference between the two? The F1 says it does "numbered shot velocities" and the Beta says it has a 60 shot memory. Does the F1 have a memory, is a memory good to have? Thanks in advance.

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2005, 05:38:03 AM »

Allright you guys,here's something to stir old Mac up. I was checking some loads in the Sierra book for single shot pistols,and this it what I found.
1 445 super mag with 30.7 grs. of 296 and 14" barrel= 1800 fps.
2 45 70 with 54 grs. of H322 and a 16 1/4" barrel + 1700 fps.

Both loads were max and 300 gr. bullets,and the 45 70 barrel was longer with a lot more powder. Now I know you guys would'nt mention this to Mac, ( yeah right) but I thought it was worth mentioning that the 445 sm.beat the 45 70 in something. :-D :-D :-D :-D

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2005, 06:00:18 AM »

Digger ya gonna stir the pot :-D
What did a 444 marlin do out of the contender close or better than the 445SM

you ever get your scanner working brass will be here soon :grin:

I do have a few loads i've dug up to try

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2005, 06:25:52 AM »

I sent 2 page's of loads to Mtjerry and it took 1hr. and 5 minutes with my computer.
1. Starting load with 296 for a 240gr.was 28.7 at 1800 fps.and the max was33.2 at 2000 fps.
2. Starting load with 296 for a 300 gr. was27.4 at 1650 fps.and themax was30.7 at 1800fps.
3. Hunting load for the 240 gr.was 32.4 grs. of 296 at 1950 fps and 2026 pds of energy.
4.Hunting load for the 300 gr.was 29.6 grs. of 296 at 1750 fps and 2158 pds of energy.
296 produced the highest velocityinboth bullets,and my old book showed Win. 680 (not in production anymore) even faster in both case's. Hope this helps. Digger

MtJerry · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2005, 06:31:31 AM »

Digger,

Did you get my reply to that e-mail with the Sierra Info? I got it ok (sorry to hear it took so long to upload), but did not have the correct program to open it

Thank for posting it here.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 29, 2005, 06:38:24 AM »

Jerry, what is the file extension? .pdf or

?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 29, 2005, 07:08:43 AM »

Quote from: .308

What's the major difference between the two? The F1 says it does "numbered shot velocities" and the Beta says it has a 60 shot memory. Does the F1 have a memory, is a memory good to have? Thanks in advance.

Here's their web page with descriptions of all their chronys...

http://www.shootingchrony.com/

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 29, 2005, 07:38:18 AM »

You could use the Lee FC die for a longer case if you shimmed the shellholder, like with a stack of large washers that fit over the case and stacked up on the shellholder.

The FC die uses a spring-loaded sliding collet to crimp the case mouth; this collet is actuated by the shellholder pushing it up into the die body where an inside taper causes it to close around the case.

How much longer than the 44Mag is the supermag?

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 29, 2005, 08:05:05 AM »

Quote from: Ditchdigger

Allright you guys,here's something to stir old Mac up. I was checking some loads in the Sierra book for single shot pistols,and this it what I found.
1 445 super mag with 30.7 grs. of 296 and 14" barrel= 1800 fps.
2 45 70 with 54 grs. of H322 and a 16 1/4" barrel + 1700 fps.

Both loads were max and 300 gr. bullets,and the 45 70 barrel was longer with a lot more powder. Now I know you guys would'nt mention this to Mac, ( yeah right) but I thought it was worth mentioning that the 445 sm.beat the 45 70 in something. :-D :-D :-D :-D

No problem Digger

Just let me know when you can get a 300 grainer up to 2400 fps safely in it... ok :wink:

Mac

.308 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 29, 2005, 08:56:03 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo

Quote from: .308

What's the major difference between the two? The F1 says it does "numbered shot velocities" and the Beta says it has a 60 shot memory. Does the F1 have a memory, is a memory good to have? Thanks in advance.

Here's their web page with descriptions of all their chronys...

http://www.shootingchrony.com/

Thanks but I read that and it doesn't tell me if the F1 has a memory, that's my question. Thanks again

.308 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 29, 2005, 09:05:05 AM »

jeff223, Looks like the Lee dies are gonna work with the .445 Super. I sized and flared a few as soon as the brass got here, just to see. I haven't had time to yet to charge those cases and see how the seat/crimp die works out. I may wait 'til my Lee FCD gets here before I do, it should be here in a couple of days. Let you know ASAP.

BTW those RCBS boolits are on their way to you, should be there in a couple of days.

Later

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** August 29, 2005, 09:10:34 AM »

.308, You'll have ta read the manuals for each chrony you're interested in, I think the Master's memory is accessed thru a printer because it will do SD and averages with a printer hooked up. The Beta has instructions for clearing memory, the Master doesn't. Dunno for sure, I'm not interested in that feature, having to pack a printer to the range is more than I want to mess with, the chrony and tripod is bad enough.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** August 29, 2005, 09:33:18 AM »

Quote from: Ditchdigger

Allright you guys,here's something to stir old Mac up. I was checking some loads in the Sierra book for single shot pistols,and this it what I found.
1 445 super mag with 30.7 grs. of 296 and 14" barrel= 1800 fps.
2 45 70 with 54 grs. of H322 and a 16 1/4" barrel + 1700 fps.

Both loads were max and 300 gr. bullets,and the 45 70 barrel was longer with a lot more powder. Now I know you guys would'nt mention this to Mac, ( yeah right) but I thought it was worth mentioning that the 445 sm.beat the 45 70 in something. :-D :-D :-D :-D

That Sierra 45-70 single shot data appears to be very conservative in that their max load is identical to the start load in the Hodgdon 2004 Annual on page 133....it shows the 300gr Sierra HP using H322 at 54gr @1699fps and a max load of 60gr @1940fps in a 15" barrel. Comparing a start load in the 45-70 to a max load in a 445SM is apples and oranges....but I gotta give you credit for the effort even though it doesn't fly!! :roll:

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 29, 2005, 11:59:07 AM »

UPdate on original post by Jeff223 ,Just got an e-mail from LEE

They said YES the 44 mag dies are designed to load the 445 SM and the FCD will also work on them .

Hope this helps

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #27 on:** August 29, 2005, 12:32:58 PM »

Quickdtoo that was the max load they listed for the single shot load in there Contender,but I just could'nt resist getting Mac riled a little. I guess the devil made me do it. :-D :-D Digger

jeff223 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 29, 2005, 01:15:05 PM »

stimpylu32,that is great news so its Lee for me.my 357mag dies work very good for the 357max and i dont see anything wrong with the way that 3 die set crimps the 357max.im just going to try the44mag 3die set without getting another crimp die.if i end up needing that die i will order one later.

i see midway has two 44mag 3 die sets.one is listed for 44 special and 44mag and the other one says just 44mag.wonder what the differance is?anyone know?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** August 29, 2005, 01:37:44 PM »

Digger, I know ya was just tryin to get Mac's goat and that's why I showed ya the pistol data from the Hodgdon manual, the rifle data for that same load range is 1850fps starting in the trapdoor loads, on up to 63grs @2532fps for a modern rifle in a 24" barrel, with a Handi being somewhere in between. :wink: I'm sure he'll be back at ya when he gets home from work tonight!! :lol: