is the Lee 44mag 3 die set is good enough for the 445SM?

[.308]

jeff223, here's my guess on the dies. The .44 spl/.44 mag. dies are shorter than the .44 mag. dies. The shorter set will do spl. and mag. and the longer set will do the mag. and the super. Like I said this is just a guess. As far as the crimping die goes I prefer the factory crimp to the 'roll' crimp, but I try to get by with as little/no crimp as possible in single shots like the handi. That was good news that stimpylu32 gave us 'straight from the horse's mouth.'

[Mac11700]

Digger, I know ya was just tryin to get Mac's goat and that's why I showed ya the pistol data from the Hodgdon manual, the rifle data for that same load range is 1850fps starting in the trapdoor loads, on up to 63grs @2532fps for a modern rifle in a 24" barrel, with a Handi being somewhere in between.  :wink: I'm sure he'll be back at ya when he gets home from work tonight!! :lol:

What he said

Mac

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Dillon replyed to me that there is enough depth in there dies to accept the taller 445sm case

Sounds like most 44mag dies will work

[.308]

jeff223,
I didn't wait on the Lee FCD for the .445 SM, I went on and charged and seated a few bullets. So the Lee '.44 mag.' dies do work with the .445 SM. Now just waiting my turn with the reamer and I'll have something to shoot them in.  

I'd like to find some data for this round with a Speer 270 gr. gold dot, I have some of them on the way.

Back to your question about the two sets of Lee dies for the .44 spl/mag, Lee lists (their on-line catalog) one set for the .44 spl. and under the listing it says they will load .44 mag too. They list a set for the .44 mag. but it doesn't say they will load .44 spl. So that leads me to think there is a difference between the two sets, and if I was gonna buy a set to use with the .445 SM then it would be the .44 mag set. I've looked at the Lee speed die for the .44 mag. also, wonder if it would work with the SM? Maybe I'll drop Lee an email and ask.

Quick and One Hole,
I have a chronograph on the way, it's a Shooting Chrony master beta.   Thanks for the help.

[jeff223]

308 i will get with my smith tonight and pickup his  TC  loading manual.he said i could take it when ever i wanted to.Speer 270 boolit load data   i will check it out for you.with alittle luck they will have that boolit load in there for you.if not there will be something close to it.you will want to start off low and work your way up

[Varminter]

Jeff, what grain of bullet do you plan on using?

I know i asked this before but what is the heaviest grain that the NEF barrels would stablilze.

[.308]

308 i will get with my smith tonight and pickup his  TC  loading manual.he said i could take it when ever i wanted to.Speer 270 boolit load data   i will check it out for you.with alittle luck they will have that boolit load in there for you.if not there will be something close to it.you will want to start off low and work your way up

jeff223,
That would be great, I appreciate it. I've got data 240's and 300's but nothing for 270's. If his manual don't have anything maybe something close like you said. If not, maybe split the difference between start loads for the 240 and the 300. :wink:  

Thanks again

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Jeff I'm lookin at the 265 hornady's same as I load in my 444 so the 270 data should work for them too if ya can post it thanks

[MtJerry]

Jeff, what grain of bullet do you plan on using?

I know i asked this before but what is the heaviest grain that the NEF barrels would stablilze.

JHP45 and myself have both had success with 300gr. Hornadys.

Myllef, I am sticking to 267-270gr. due to ballistics data showing the best energy return for velocity gained.

[Varminter]

I was looking at the 200-240gr. bullets. With the increase in velocity would these bullets "be pushed to their limits". So should i move up in weight?

[MtJerry]

I don't think they will be pushed to their limits, but the increased velocity will not translate into increased energy or performance.

I am just looking at this from a perspective of ballistics data, and I am not at home so I will try and pull this out of my head (I was looking at the data last night).  

With a 240gr. bullet, you have 1000+(foot-pounds) of energy at 125 yards.  That's at about 2000(feet-per-second)

With a 265gr. bullet you have 1000(foot-pounds) of energy at almost 200 yards.  That too is a about 2000(feet-per-second)

Again, I am at work so I don't have this in front of me so be gentle ...

I am concerned about energy because that is what translates into penetration performance at given distances.  Some folks think the faster it goes, the more it will penetrate.  And that just isn't true.

[Ditchdigger]

I use the 240 soft point Rem. I think its the same as loaded for the 444 marlin.It clocks 2126 fps. with a near max load of 296. About 200 fps behind the 444 factory load. Works real well on hogs.  Digger

[Varminter]

I bought a box of these not to long ago but i haven't had a chance to try them in mine yet.

http://missoula.bigsky.net/western/cbip/b429303.html

[jeff223]

here is some load data that i got from the TC manual.aa1680 powder is listed for all bullets and the 1680 gave the best accuracy loads.there was no data for a 270gr bullet.i am going to use the 1680 for my load workup for the 445sm.and all tests were from a 14 inch TC barrel.you can expect to get fps out of your handi rifles.i hope this data helps you out some

primer used was the Fed 210 in all

210gr bullet...aa 1680...start load 35.8 and a max load of 40.8...2000fps

220gr bullet...aa 1680...start load 35.3 and a max load of 39.6...1950fps

250gr bullet...aa 1680...start load 32.7 and a max load of 39...1900fps

300gr bullet...aa 1680...start load 28.6 and a max load of 34.4...1650fps

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Got this off of accurate arms web sight

HDY 265 FP AA1680 start 31.5 1463fps AA1680 max 35.0 1663fps 37,600cup

Its what I am going to start with have the 265's allready & the flatten whitetail out of my 444P

[.308]

Hmmm, I don't have any AA1680 on hand and it looks like a good powder for the .445 SM. I did find some data for the SM with 265 gr. bullets using WW296 (which is a bit quicker than 1680) which I do have on hand. This data lists 26.8 gr. of 296 with the 265 gr. bullet as a starting load and 32.1 as the max. load, so I'm thinking 26.0 should be a safe starting load with the 270 gr. bullet. The same source for this data lists 30.4 gr. of AA1680 as a starting load with a 265 gr. bullet, so I should be in the ballpark.

Thanks for all the info,  I'll hang on to it for when I run across some 1680.

[quickdtoo]

The Hornady 6th has load data for 180gr thru 300gr using H4227, W296, IMR4227, H110, AA5744, W680 and AA1680 for the 445SM if anyone has an inclination to get a manual. The Hodgdon 2004 Annual has loads for 180gr thru 240gr using H4227, H110 and Lil'Gun if you want an $8 manual. :wink:

[.308]

 if anyone has an inclination to get a manual

I don't really know how to take the above, cause I'm not sure how it was meant, Sir. :wink:  :wink:

[quickdtoo]

Anyone reloading should have at least one good manual, 2 or more are much better... I see way too many shooters asking for reloading data that apparently have no manuals, so therefore haven't read any of the other basic important info that is included in them that a new reloader needs to know before reloading. Since the manuals aren't cheap, I think many forego them which in reality, should be the first thing they invest in. I'm a new reloader myself so the process is very fresh in my mind....and being a forum moderator it's part of my responsibility to bring things like this to light.

If this doesn't apply to you, no problem, but if it does, please take note.:wink:

(stepping down from my soap box.... :roll: )

[warf73]

quickdtoo

Not trying to be rude or anything.

I have 4 manuals (2) 2005 manuals which don’t have the 445sm in them.
But my 1996 Hornady manual has it listed.

As I posted in another thread Alliant doesn't have any data because they don't have a test barrel and aren't getting one.

The data for the 445sm is limited because the round isn't used all that much anymore. It was created to shoot a steel Ram at 200-300meters out of a pistol way back when. (As stated in the Hornady manual)

I can see were these guys might need a hand with data because the data really is limited.

Warf

[quickdtoo]

Warf, I realize that, it's why I offered those 2 sources. :wink:

[Mitch in MI]

I've got the Lee 310gr RN-FP mold, (the 44 version of those 357 molds that Jeff did the group buy on). Anybody tried these in the Handi? I failed to order a 44 mag barrel in time.

Last I knew, the F1 chrony just told you the velocity of the last bullet over the sensors. If you want to keep the data, you write it down before you shoot again. The other models, Alpha-Beta-Gamma-Delta-whatever, have varying amounts of memory so you can scroll through the velocities later and some of them compute average, standard deviation, etc.
The master models have the remote display so that you can put the chrony 10-15' in front of you and have the display on your bench.
I bought an old red F-1 several years ago when they were selling used refurbs for something like $40. You might contact them and see if they still do this, but I doubt it's going to be $40 now.

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Quick I am in the same boat as warf, no listings in my manuals. I have the Lyman 48th coming Good cast data I believe. May have to upgrade my library, Abuddy of mine & I usually swap off the buying & trade out info, much more economical. I usually find one load & stick to it.

[.308]

I see way too many shooters asking for reloading data that apparently have no manuals

Well, Sir I'm not one of those, never have been and have been involved in handloading since I was in my teens. First thing I bought was a manual. But if I don't have data on this one particular round then what's the harm in asking your 'friends' for a little help? A lot of folks handload to save money, why not ask a friend to use his manual or recite some data from it rather that paying 30 bucks or more for a manual for data on this one round? :wink:  :wink:

Mitch thanks for your info on the chronys.  That's the info I was looking for. I bought the master beta because I wanted one with some memory. I have the mold for that bullet but haven't gotten around to trying it yet. The .44 mag barrel is still listed as available on the H&R site.

[quickdtoo]

Well, as Will as Rogers said "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging." :-D  :-D  :-D

[.308]

I ain't the one with the shovel!!!!!    :-D

Varminter you had asked if the .44 mag FCD would work with the .445 SM, well here is your correct answer. Mine just arrived, and its marked on the package .44 spl/.44 mag/.44 Super Mag.

[Varminter]

Thanks 308. I'm gonna try my lee dies first then if i'm not satisfied i'll buy one of those

[quickdtoo]

.308, I was referring to myself!! :grin:

[.308]

quick,
Oops silly me, what is they say happens when you ASSUME? I'll learn one of these days. :oops:

Varminter,
You're welcome. You may be completely satisfied with the crimp you get with the regular dies. I personally prefer no crimp or factory crimp. Later

[Varminter]

I didn't think the crimp would matter in a single shot. I could understand in a revovler or lever gun but not a single shot.