45/70 recoil?

[Larry R]

how  bad is it? i was thinking of getting a BIG bore barrel for my handi and was just wandering what kind of recoil to expect if i get the 45/70?
so far the hardest kickin gun i've shot is a 7 mag how does the recoil of a single shot 45/70 compare to the 7 mag?

[quickdtoo]

Depends on the loads you shoot in it, factory rem or win loads aren't gonna rock you much at trapdoor levels, hot handloads or some of the Buffalo or Garrett loads will let ya know about it....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

[Fred M]

Larry.

Recoil calculations are a function of oposing energies and good input, otherwise you compare apples with oranges.

You need the following for both rifles.

1. Exact weight of rifle. 2. Weight of bullet. 3. Muzzle velocity of bullet.

4. Powder charge weight.

If you give me the input data for both rifles I can give you the recoil in ft/lbs of energy.

There are several programs on the web where you can find out what you want to compare. The weight of a rifle is the biggest contributer of recoil or the lack thereof.

[tscott]

I would only have experience with factory Winchester. After 2 shots I took off that dopey slip on recoil pad I bought after a lady at NEF told me that the recoil was horrible. I hunt, range time limited to sight in. I think you are in the ball park with the 7mag. Not wanting to get scientific, perhaps my 6'5 / 202lb frame absorbs some of the kick. I would definately say that the recoil is less than the very manageable (for me)
.444 Marlin. I was pleasantly surprised with the Handi 45/70 accuracy
with unadjusted factory sights out of the box... Are these guns boresighted, or did I get lucky.....

[Larry R]

thanks guys its sounds like i can handle it, and if not at lest im not out to much money considering it will be a handi

[t3shooter]

With a good recoil pad, it's all good.  Steel buttplate on the BC hurt me; cut it off the next day for limbsaver.  Heavier 45-70 loads are a big push now, not unpleasant.

[Markus]

As far as comparisons go shooting the low end factory loads that I've fooled with so far I'd say it is about like a 20ga shot gun. I have'nt shot a 7mag since about 1990. I remember it had recoil but I cant remember enough to compare. I'm a big guy as well. I was shocked by how little the 45-70 recoiled. I was braced in a good forward lean with the butt tucked in real tight expecting to get the crap knocked out of me and was pleasantly suprised. I've got a stock from a topper deluxe on it with the stock H&R recoil pad. Get one and enjoy. I bought mine more for nostalgia than anything else. It's just plain fun to shoot a cartridge with as much history behind it as this has.

[Ditchdigger]

When mine was new it was the kicking'es thing I've shot in a long time,and I shoot a 300 Wby alot. It seems a though some of them kick and some don't so don't set down at the bench and shoot 30 rds. through it at one time like I did. After I shot 150 rds. or so,through it it was alot easier on the shoulder. Its the only gun I've fired in the last 50 yrs. that left me black and blue. I don't know if it was a tight bore or what but its a lot easier and fun to shoot now.  Digger

[quickdtoo]

Digger, it's just got ya all toughened up now in yer old age!!!! :-D  :wink:

[cheatermk3]

I shot half a box of Remington factory 405 FP "for all rifles" rounds when I got my BC barrel in from Danny Laws on a trade (thanks Danny!).  I shot several off my bench to get it sighted in and see how it'd group--last three a cloverleaf at 50.  "Hey, the recoil's not too bad"  I thought, and shot up a few more offhand at rocks on my backstop.

The next day I woke up with kind of a stiff neck and a limp from a gimpy hip.  It wasn't until later that day, when I lifted a box up over my head and felt a twinge in my shoulder that I put two and two together...those light factory loads twisted this fat old man's body enuff to send him limping to the chiropracter.

So, now I load weenie 300 grain ammo and keep the bench shooting to a minimum with the 45-70.  

But no, it ain't THAT bad, really...

[Mac11700]

I say...loose that factory recoil pad...pick up a small grind to fit Limbsaver recoil pad...fit it to the gun...fill up the butt stock with bird shot,put a nice soft cheek pad on it...and let err riiiiiiiiiiiip... :-D It's stout...and if you lean into it...it will punch you pretty good...you need to be a little loose not tense but hold it snug in the shoulder pocket and let your body roll with it...that way you can shoot it with full house loads and not get hurt...I'm 5'11" and 180lbs...and I can shoot this all day long and not get hurt by it...my300 grain Nosler Partition loads are clocking out at 2400fps...and they will let you know when you touch them off...the factory loads are quite mild...and a real good one to try is the Federal Power Shock 300 grain Speer Hot-Core load...it's accurate....and not to bad for price...it's around $21-$24 a box...Oh...by the way...I shot a Browning Euro in 7mm Mag...it hurt worse than the factory issued 45-70 Handi...a-lot has to do with stock fit...and that rifle didn't fit me at all...it had way too long of pull on it for me...

Mac

[Larry R]

wow.....sounds like i can deal with the recoil but im not sure about the price of ammo..seeing how i dont reload  and i like to shoot alot   man i had no idea ammo was that expensive   is this a average price?

[quickdtoo]

These are 2003 prices, some have changed or aren't around...The PMC cowboy loads are the cheapest....

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=213719

$41.54 250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$??.?? 300g @ 1810fps, 2182fpe (Remington @ Remington web site)
$20.39 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester JHP, Natchez)
$20.60 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Federal, Natchez)
$29.81 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester Partition Gold, Natchez)
$22.84 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, HP (Conley)
$44.66 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$32.50 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Nosler Partition (Protected Point) (Conley)
$41.54 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$25.08 350g @ 1970fps, 3017fpe, Hornady JFP (Conley)
$34.89 350g @ 1800fps, 2519fpe, BCSP (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$19.47 350g @ 2025fps, 3188fpe, PMC @CheaperThanDirt.com)
$39.99 350g @ 2150fps, 3593fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$24.99 400g @ 1250fps, 1388fpe (Black Hills @ Cabelas)
$44.66 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$54.46 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Swift A-Frame Flat Point (Conley)
$12.99 405g @ 1350fps, 1639fpe (PMC @ Cabelas)
$18.99 405g @ 1100fps, 1088fpe (Ultramax @ Cabelas)
$22.50 405g @ 1325fps, 1579fpe, RNFP (Conley)
$18.99 405g @ 1330fps, 1590fpe (Remington @ Cabelas)
$24.50 405g @ (Winchester @ Cascade Ammunition web site)
$35.57 405g @ 1700fps, 2600fpe, FPPE (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$22.99 405g @ 1900fps, 3247fpe, JSP (Conley)
$39.99 405g @ 2000fps, 3597fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$41.99 405g @ (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$50.00 420g @ 1850fps, 3200fpe (Garrett)
$39.99 430g @ 1925fps, 3537fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$34.50 460g @ 1650fps, 2780fpe, HC (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$41.99 500g @ (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$52.99 500g @ 1625fps, 2931fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$50.00 540g @ 1550fps, 2880fpe (Garrett)
$180.00 500g @ 1530fps, 2600fpe (Speer AGS Tungsten, Garrett)

[lik2hunt]

I just got my barrel in yesterday from tommy tsunami (Thanks Tommy ) Got a great deal on brand new barrel. I intend to try some factory stuff first and then go to Mr. Mac's 300 gr. Nosler Partition load. I'm gonna add a mercury recoil reducer and a neoprene shell holder over some rubitex to a standard wood monte carlo stock and let 'em fly. Oh yea, I'll probably go with the Bushnell Banner Long Eye Releif 3-9x40 shotgun scope later also.

[Longcruise]

.....sounds like i can deal with the recoil but im not sure about the price of ammo..seeing how i dont reload and i like to shoot alot man i had no idea ammo was that expensive is this a average price?

The 45-70 is a reloaders cartridge for sure.  There is not a single maker or load that was listed by Quick that you can't do yourself for waaaaay less $$.

I presently reload for 12 cartridges from .223 up to 45-70 and with the 45-70 being such a wonderful cast bullet cartridge, I can actually cast and reload for it cheaper than I can load for the .223 :grin:

The other thing about the 45-70 is that it really shines with bullets from 405 grains up to 550 grains.  A 500 grain trapdoor load in a Handi is going to smack you pretty hard.  Most Handi shooters seem to favor the 300 to 350 grain bullets which makes for great shooting and hunting ammo too but it's actually not doing much more than a .44 mag can do (but not in a Handi given their useless 1:38 twist in the .44 mag).

[Haywire Haywood]

I've got a mercury recoil suppressor in the stock and a Limbsaver on the back.  It's not too bad with the mid-marlin loads I top with a 325gr gas check boolit... unless you're shooting off a short bench and you're hunched over trying to shoot for groups.... Then it'll whomp you good.

Ian

[Mac11700]

Larry:

Don't be fooled by some folks beliefs that a 44 mag is the equivalent to the 45-70...it certainly is not.Pick up any of the good reloading manuals and see for yourself.The 45-70 shines with all of the bullet weights...light and heavy...you can load it light for some mild plinking...or you can load it heavy for bone crushing performance on the most dangerous game on the planet...the 44 mag...even fired from a rifle falls short on performance in this regard...while it does make for a excellent light shooter...it's best reserved for deer do to it's very limited ranges.The 444 Marlin...as good a cartridge as it is over the 44 mag...even falls short of matching the performance you can attain with the 45-70...

Reloading for the 45-70 is easy and there will be several different loads that should shoot accuratly for you...you'll have to deceide if your going to shoot open sites...or scope it...either way you find a very pleasent rifle to shoot with moderate loads...and give you all the horsepower you could want if and  when you need it for Dangerous Game...if you do start reloading...I will suggest 2 additional dies to purchase that will make your reloading experiance more fun and build better ammo...niether one is very expensive...and will improve your results...first would be a Lee factory crimp die...and the second is a Lyman "M" die...the Leee does the greatest job for crimping...and the Lyman "M" die does a wonderfull job of belling the case mouth over any of the standard factory dies...it will reduce that unsightly case bulge a-lot of folks gets when loading  cast bullets...

Good Luck

Mac

[Longcruise]

Don't be fooled by some folks beliefs that a 44 mag is the equivalent to the 45-70...it certainly is not.

I presume you were addressing my comments? :grin:

You will note that I never said it was the equivalent of the 45-70 in any load.  But, I did say that as long as one is going to shoot those 300 to 350 grain loads, it may as well be from a .44 mag.  I said, the 45-70 with the 300 to 350 grain bullets "is not doing much more than a .44 mag can do", and I'll stand by that.  The fact that the 300 to 350 grain bullets can be loaded to higher velocities and the much overrated lower trajectory, does not make them all that much better, IMO.

The 45-70 shines with all of the bullet weights...light and heavy...you can load it light for some mild plinking...or you can load it heavy for bone crushing performance on the most dangerous game on the planet...the 44 mag...even fired from a rifle falls short on performance in this regard.

It seems to me that the discussion was about recoil, no?  Sure, the 45-70 cartridge is way superior to the .44 mag as far as versatility goes.  That's why I do shoot a 45-70 and not a .44 in a rifle.  But, if you narrow the discussion to the Handi rifle in 45-70, I think if you were to go out and do as much shooting as I and many others do with a 45-70, you would find even the 405 gr bullets a bit much.  I'm talking about shooting 60 to 120 rounds in a day or two.  Believe me, you don't want to shoot that many trapdoor 500 grainers in a handi over the course of an afternoon! :shock:

As far as effectiveness goes, the .44 mag with 300 grain WFN style bullets at 1100 to 1300 fps is up to anything in North America and has been used with fine effectiveness on the dangerous game of Africa.  So, if it will do it at those velocities from a hand gun it certainly ought to handle the same animals out of a rifle at the 1500 fps or so mark, don't you think?

Given the abusive recoil of the 45-70 in the heavy bullet loads, I think any hunter who wants to shoot a lot with a rifle in the weight range of a Handi just as well of with a .44 mag from a recoil stand point.  But, unfortunately, NEF sacrafices the .44 mag on the altar of production simplicty, or costs or whatever it is that motivates them to use the wrong twist rate in the Handi!

If a 45-70 for all loads and all occasions is desired, then the falling block and rolling block guns with some heft to them are way more pleasant to shoot from a recoil standpoint

[Mac11700]

Longcruise:
 
Yes...the recoil issue is what this thread was about...also...it was about the 45-70...not the 44mag...and anytime you assume anything...well...you know what is said about that...I do shoot the 45-70 a-lot...and putting 50-150 rounds thru mine in a days shooting isn't really anything  extraordinary...whither it's shooting them from off the bench...to shooting them various field positions...I shoot my 45-70's more than just about anything else these days.To achieve the flatter trajectories with either the 44mag or the 45-70...you will increase the recoil...and if the Handi rifle is set up adequately...it is no-more punishing than a un-modified 30-06 in a Handi...This I know for a fact...since I have both.While you reasoning regarding shooting the 300-350 grainers in the 44mag is purely a personal preference...the point of the matter is what the poster asked...and that is what the recoil is in the 45-70...I'm sure if he wants to shoot pistol bullets he can do so...but...what is the ballistic advantage of them over what the rifle bullets will you gain...the answer is none...and the ballistic gain of loading the 45-70 up to higher levels is evident to anyone shooting them...provided they can handle the recoil...
 
The 45-70 in my Handi isn't as bad as some of the other rifles I own...and have owned...the amount of recoil that is generated from it...can be very managable and  reduced by taking the proper precautions...it's not as easy on the shoulder as say a 223...but...I wouldn't want to go up against any critter that could bite back with one either.....and to saying pistol rounds are plenty against critters like that...just because folks use them over there and up north...is rather silly...sure...they have doing that stunt for years...Larry Kelly has made a fortune from it...but ...were not discussing the recoil generated off a pistol now are we...


Mac

[tscott]

The best way that I have found to reduce felt recoil is strength training.
Doesn't take much, perhaps 10 minutes 3 times a week to strengthen the shoulder girdle. I know this may not be the most popular method, but
simple exercises to include: shoulder press, chest press, row, biceps curl, triceps extension... I set of 8 reps of these is all one needs. The reason why recoil may get tougher is not misuse, but disuse.
A little lean muscle mass, is a wonderful shock absorber!

[Longcruise]

and anytime you assume anything

Did somebody assume something or was that simply gratutious? :-D

it was about the 45-70...not the 44mag

Hmmm...  You left out the 7 Mag. :grin:

Yup it was about recoil.  If you review any of the 45-70 load topics in this forum (and there are usually several going on at any time) you will find a recurring thread (no pun intended) and that is that the guys who are shooting a lot with the Handi 45-70's are shooting mostly 300 and 350 grain bullets, and they repeatedly bring up recoil as the factor in using the lighter bullets.  It all points to the theme of my response to the original question which was that a .44 mag rifle loaded with similar weight bullets will perform the same exact tasks and without the recoil (tieing the two themes together you see :grin: )

...and if the Handi rifle is set up adequately...it is no-more punishing than a un-modified 30-06 in a Handi...This I know for a fact...since I have both

Ok, so now you are supporting my point of view!  You shoot a modified Handi in 45-70 to reduce recoil.  Is that it?  And what weight bullets are you shooting 50 to 150 of?  450 grainers?  500 grainers?  Or, are they the typical Handi load of 300 to 350?

...the point of the matter is what the poster asked

Exactly and I gave him a slightly different point of view which for some reason seems to bother you.

.....and to saying pistol rounds are plenty against critters like that...just because folks use them over there and up north...is rather silly...sure...they have doing that stunt for years

I guess as far as I'm concerned, when something has been done "for years", it's sorta like not a "stunt" anymore but a commonly done thing.  The people whose names you throw around (and whom I know nothing about) are not the only ones using these calibers/cartridges to hunt very large animals with and it is certainly way beyond being a stunt.  It's actually become commonplace.

were not discussing the recoil generated off a pistol now are we

No, "we" aren't, you are! :-D

Here is a quote from Haywire which I think pretty much supports my view of recoil and the Handi rifle:

I've got a mercury recoil suppressor in the stock and a Limbsaver on the back. It's not too bad with the mid-marlin loads I top with a 325gr gas check boolit... unless you're shooting off a short bench and you're hunched over trying to shoot for groups.... Then it'll whomp you good.

And then there are apparently modifications to your rifle as well, which I don't recall you detailing for Larry R.

So, in answer to Larry R's question, I say again, that current Handi users seem to favor light weight bullets due to recoil and, if the heavy bullets are that rough to shoot in the Handi, then it may as well be a .44 mag cause they will do the same things.  And if you want to shoot the heavy stuff (405 up to 550) in your 45-70, then get one that weighs about 10 pounds or so.

[Mac11700]

Ok...let's clear the air here take this in order shall we :wink: I think you were the first to bring this up..

Most Handi shooters seem to favor the 300 to 350 grain bullets which makes for great shooting and hunting ammo too but it's actually not doing much more than a .44 mag can do (but not in a Handi given their useless 1:38 twist in the .44 mag).

Which load of the 44 mag will  even close or in better words the equivalent to a 300 grain Nosler Partition rifle bullet at 2400 fps out of a Handi?...answer none...this is by your own admission...but to answer your pressumption:

I presume you were addressing my comments? Very Happy

You will note that I never said it was the equivalent of the 45-70 in any load. But, I did say that as long as one is going to shoot those 300 to 350 grain loads, it may as well be from a .44 mag. I said, the 45-70 with the 300 to 350 grain bullets "is not doing much more than a .44 mag can do", and I'll stand by that. The fact that the 300 to 350 grain bullets can be loaded to higher velocities and the much overrated lower trajectory, does not make them all that much better, IMO.

Longcruise...your not the first person who has stated this,,and I don't think you'll be the last...If you can't see the advantage of having a flatter trajectory...well...it is your opinion...but not mine or many others...and if I was going up against anything that might bite back...I think I would want my load over any 44 mag load

As far as effectiveness goes, the .44 mag with 300 grain WFN style bullets at 1100 to 1300 fps is up to anything in North America and has been used with fine effectiveness on the dangerous game of Africa. So, if it will do it at those velocities from a hand gun it certainly ought to handle the same animals out of a rifle at the 1500 fps or so mark, don't you think?

This is true...provided you want to hunt at handgun ranges...and see above response

Given the abusive recoil of the 45-70 in the heavy bullet loads, I think any hunter who wants to shoot a lot with a rifle in the weight range of a Handi just as well of with a .44 mag from a recoil stand point. But, unfortunately, NEF sacrafices the .44 mag on the altar of production simplicty, or costs or whatever it is that motivates them to use the wrong twist rate in the Handi! Sad

The 44mag in a Handi does just fine at pistol velocities...the accuracy problems occur when folks try to make it something it's not..namely a high velocity rifle cartridge...it is a pistol cartridge...and will always be one...

If a 45-70 for all loads and all occasions is desired, then the falling block and rolling block guns with some heft to them are way more pleasant to shoot from a recoil standpoint

If you note in my post above you will see that I explained what to do in this regard...and at a incredable savings over buying a falling block or rolling block...

Ok, so now you are supporting my point of view! You shoot a modified Handi in 45-70 to reduce recoil. Is that it? And what weight bullets are you shooting 50 to 150 of? 450 grainers? 500 grainers? Or, are they the typical Handi load of 300 to 350?

I shoot primaraly 2 loads from my 45-70's...and have others as well...but these are my main stays...a 300 grain Nosler Partition at 2400fps...and a 405 grain Cast Performance at 1950-2000fps...neither of them in my rifles hurt me...yes...they are stout...but...they aren't some mild sedate pistol load either...I know this before ever firing it...which is why I gave the advise in my first post on this thread......Also...my loads  will out-preform any 44 mag load.....both loads are incredibly accurate....and yes...the trajectory advantage I gain by using these hotter loads gives me an  major advantage in the feild when carrying my single-shot...especially if I only get a chance for 1 shot...

Exactly and I gave him a slightly different point of view which for some reason seems to bother you.

no...what bothers me is your statements that aren't quite accurate...your opinions mirror those who shoot primaraly cast bullets with the 45-70 and cannot see any advantage to having it made into a 250 yard gun.....

I guess as far as I'm concerned, when something has been done "for years", it's sorta like not a "stunt" anymore but a commonly done thing. The people whose names you throw around (and whom I know nothing about) are not the only ones using these calibers/cartridges to hunt very large animals with and it is certainly way beyond being a stunt. It's actually become commonplace.

You don't know who Larry Kelly is?..follow the links then.....and see who he is....To me and a-lot of other folks...hunting any dangerous game with a 44 mag is a stunt...be it in a rifle...or a pistol..........http://www.americanpistol.com/Members/lkelly.html

Here is a quote from Haywire which I think pretty much supports my view of recoil and the Handi rifle:

Quote:
I've got a mercury recoil suppressor in the stock and a Limbsaver on the back. It's not too bad with the mid-marlin loads I top with a 325gr gas check boolit... unless you're shooting off a short bench and you're hunched over trying to shoot for groups.... Then it'll whomp you good.

Well...percived recoil can be attributed to many factors..and with shooting a heavy recoiling gun...cheek slap is one of the main contributing factors...if you do a search...you will see that I advocate using a Uncle Mikes sheel holder and some soft rubatex foam under it...I have done this for years...and tell everyone to use it...do a search on it and you will see..for those who have shot my 45-70's..know this is a fact...also.. I've owned a-lot of mercury recoil suppressors...and shot many a gun with them in the butt stock..clamped on a barrel...inside a chamber on a over&under...and attached to the magazine cap...and with all of them...they haven't helped as much as adding  additional weight to the gun...they do disapate some recoil by their dampening ability...and do keep the gun lighter..but..it's not as effective as adding 1-1/2lbs-2 lbs of weight to the stock...

And then there are apparently modifications to your rifle as well, which I don't recall you detailing for Larry R.

...Seems to me I covered everthing I've discussed here...

I say...loose that factory recoil pad...pick up a small grind to fit Limbsaver recoil pad...fit it to the gun...fill up the butt stock with bird shot,put a nice soft cheek pad on it...and let err riiiiiiiiiiiip..

Well...now that we have cleared up...Larry R...don't be afraid of the recoil from the 45-70...it's not  that bad...like I said before...get a good cheek pad for it...put some birdshot in the stock...and a good Limsaver recoil pad...and your all set...

Mac

[mr.frosty]

These are 2003 prices, some have changed or aren't around...The PMC cowboy loads are the cheapest....

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=213719

$41.54 250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$19.99 300g @ 1810fps, 2182fpe (Remington @ Remington web site)
$20.39 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester JHP, Natchez)
$20.60 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Federal, Natchez)
$29.81 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester Partition Gold, Natchez)
$22.84 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, HP (Conley)
$44.66 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$32.50 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Nosler Partition (Protected Point) (Conley)
$41.54 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$25.08 350g @ 1970fps, 3017fpe, Hornady JFP (Conley)
$34.89 350g @ 1800fps, 2519fpe, BCSP (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$19.47 350g @ 2025fps, 3188fpe, PMC @CheaperThanDirt.com)
$39.99 350g @ 2150fps, 3593fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$24.99 400g @ 1250fps, 1388fpe (Black Hills @ Cabelas)
$44.66 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$54.46 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Swift A-Frame Flat Point (Conley)
$12.99 405g @ 1350fps, 1639fpe (PMC @ Cabelas)
$18.99 405g @ 1100fps, 1088fpe (Ultramax @ Cabelas)
$22.50 405g @ 1325fps, 1579fpe, RNFP (Conley)
$18.99 405g @ 1330fps, 1590fpe (Remington @ Cabelas)
$24.50 405g @ (Winchester @ Cascade Ammunition web site)
$35.57 405g @ 1700fps, 2600fpe, FPPE (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$22.99 405g @ 1900fps, 3247fpe, JSP (Conley)
$39.99 405g @ 2000fps, 3597fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$41.99 405g @ (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$50.00 420g @ 1850fps, 3200fpe (Garrett)
$39.99 430g @ 1925fps, 3537fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$34.50 460g @ 1650fps, 2780fpe, HC (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$41.99 500g @ (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$52.99 500g @ 1625fps, 2931fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$50.00 540g @ 1550fps, 2880fpe (Garrett)
$180.00 500g @ 1530fps, 2600fpe (Speer AGS Tungsten, Garrett)

the remington is 19.99 at midwayusa the last time i looked there.

[Haywire Haywood]

Here is a quote from Haywire

Don't drag me into your tit-for-tat spat.  In fact, why don't you two take it to PMs, you're screwing up the thread.

Ian

[Woodbutcher]

From the bench, all scrunched over, hard buttplate, 300 gr factory loads, my shoulder is bruised after 10 shots. I'm not unhappy, just bruised, it goes away.
 Shooting offhand, no problem. I don't even flinch, ..........much.                     Woodbutcher

[Longcruise]

Which load of the 44 mag will even close or in better words the equivalent to a 300 grain Nosler Partition rifle bullet at 2400 fps out of a Handi?...answer none...

There you go, stating exactly what I have said as though it's a revelation on your part.  It doesn't have to be "equivalent".  It simply has to do the same job, and a .430 WLFN weighing 320 grains will do the same job as your 300 or 350 grain 45-70 loads.   It won't do it with as much velocity and the trajectory won't match but it will do the same job

...but to answer your pressumption

Ok, now I see where the "assume" remark came from.  You apparently don't know the difference between presume and assume  Not surprising coming from a guy who thinks that sentences end with three periods or that three periods make a comma. :-D

Longcruise...your not the first person who has stated this,,and I don't think you'll be the last...If you can't see the advantage of having a flatter trajectory...well...it is your opinion...but not mine or many others

Exactly, it's a difference of opinion.  Stated in a thread that was in response to a legitimate question from another party.  We posted our differing opinions but somehow you can't seem to get over the fact that we do have differing opinions and as you said mine (and yours) are both shared by many.  So, why not let Larry R decide for himself?

The 44mag in a Handi does just fine at pistol velocities...the accuracy problems occur when folks try to make it something it's not..namely a high velocity rifle cartridge...it is a pistol cartridge...and will always be one...

No, you are entirely incorrect on that (meaning this is not a case of opinion).  The Handi .44 is shipped with a 1:38 twist and is not only inaccurate with heavier bullets, but most of them send anything over 275 grains through the target sideways and I doubt if any of them will stabilize a bullet over 300 grains.

Also, note, that I never recommended the .44 Handi to anybody!  My remarks were purely based on the fact (fact in my opinion, not necessarily yours) that the Handi rifle in 45-70 delivers heavy enough recoil that most owners of it prefer to limit themselves to 300 to 350 grain bullets.  While you may think that adding a few hundred feet per second to 300 grain bullet makes it somehow magic, I differ with your opinion and am more than happy to accept that any time your are willing to accept it on your part.

no...what bothers me is your statements that aren't quite accurate...your opinions mirror those who shoot primaraly cast bullets with the 45-70 and cannot see any advantage to having it made into a 250 yard gun.....

Once again, your opinions differ from mine and while they may not be accurate in your opinion, I just don't see any justification for you being so bothered! :?   BTW, tell me why I should see an advantage in turning my 350 yard gun into a 250 yard gun?

Well...now that we have cleared up

The only thing that's cleared up is your determination to keep your mind firmly closed.

Haywire;

Don't drag me into your tit-for-tat spat. In fact, why don't you two take it to PMs, you're screwing up the thread

I'm sorry you feel that way.  I had no intention of offending you and you certainly have not been "dragged" into anything.  Your quote perfectly illustrated what is said by most Handi 45-70 shooters and that is why I used it.  I did not view it as placing you in the middle or employing you as an ally.  Sorry if I offended you.

[Mac11700]

Larry R:

I do apologize for the thread going off topic the way it has...and I won't continue on with any debate here...perhaps now we can get this back on track....I can't honestly say how much recoil difference between the 45-70 in a Handi or any of the 7mm available for them with the exception of the 7 x 64 Breneke...and it does recoil more than that one...I have shot a Browning Euro bolt in 7mm Mag...and over all...I would say the 45-70 is more of a hard shove...as compared to the sharp jab of it with all bullet weights..

Mac

[iiiwew]

Got my 45/70 Handi synthetic from Megalomart a few weeks ago.
Also picked up a Simms small slip-on recoil pad.
I had one of the buttstock weights I had taken out of another handirifle (243) to make it lighter and put it in the 45/70 buttstock.
My 45/70 did not have the buttstock weight but the 243 did.
These make a big difference.
I am going to fit the buttstock with a small Simms grid to fit recoil pad.
This with the slip-on and added weight should make about any load manageable.
Good Luck.

[poncaguy]

I put the Choate Varmit stock on mine, the pistol grip helps with the recoil of the 45-70..................

[jritter]

I have a neoprene cartridge holder on mine, I just cut up my mouse pad in front of me, slipped it in under the neoprene.  No more cheek slap!