dirt hole question

[.17HMR]

when using a 2 or 3 hole dirt hole set do I use the same lure in all the holes or different ones in each hole

[Bogmaster]

Give them a change of pace,put something differant in each hole.
 Tom

[Asa Lenon]

I've been trapping fox, coyote and bobcat for over a half century and never once found a need to use more than one hole at a dirthole set or to use more than one lure at a set. The objective of one 3" or 4" diameter hole is a place to put the lure and be able to guage where the animals target foot will be located when their nose is in the hole.  Traps are then positioned accordingly to the size animal one is after and guiding such as sticks or sand ridges are used to encourage the animal to place its foot where one wants it.  With all due respect, the idea of placing multiple holes and multiple lures at a set in order to get an animal tracking and traipsing all over the place, with hopes of a foot accidentally hitting the trap pan is an unnecessaryamateur idea. Just my opinion!  Ace

[Bogmaster]

Asa,I was under the impression.17 was gang setting.Using 2 to 3 dirt holes in an area for multiple catches.
 Tom

[.17HMR]

I was talking about gang setting with sets about 15 feet a part so do I use different lures for each hole

[Asa Lenon]

Oooppps, sorry about misunderstanding your post! Ace :oops:

[coyotero]

I have a "regular" lure/bait rotation.I use a different lure or bait at each dirthole.By using a regular rotation I can figure out if there is a bait or lure that is working better than the others.

[Asa Lenon]

I'm sure there is probably nothing wrong with using a different lure at each grouping of hole sets but I don't personally find it necessary and prefer to keep the different lures for a specific problem animal.  Generally what I do at group settings is make several hole sets, all with the same lure and then somewhere in the midst I make one or two post sets or blind sets with a completely differently formulated lure. The lures used at the hole sets have a food element in their formulation and the lures used at other type sets does not.  The only time I change-up my routine of the two same lures and urines is when and if i'm having a specific problem such as a trap digger or set avoider.  Then I construct blind/flat sets somewhere in between the dug at or avoided set or sets and lure them with something completely different such as mink lures or bobcat lures or urine.  It gets them everytime for me.  Ace

[trappnman]

With all due respect, the idea of placing multiple holes and multiple lures at a set in order to get an animal tracking and traipsing all over the place, with hopes of a foot accidentally hitting the trap pan is an unnecessaryamateur idea.

LOL- with all due respect- what nonsense!

I've been using 2 hole flat sets for years, and I'll match my coyote slkills against anyman-

To say a method that you do not use and obviously do not understand  is faulty is insulting.

Before I forget- any coming to the WI convention, if you want the skinny on 2 hole flat sets- come ot my demo on Friday. I do not make a set without using 2 lures.

Why? My research has shown that using 2 scents at a hole- whether 2 lures or bait and a lure- increases coyote results.  There isn't as man out there that takes close to 100% of the coyotes on his line. Thats just a fact.

In an effort to take that 100%- an impossible dream- I find that using 2 holes at flat sets does 2 things  1) increases coyotes working the set  2) increase catches.

The more there to hold his interest, the more there to make him WANT to investigate, the better. I've said it before and I'll say it again- the longer a coyote is at the set, the better your chances.

Flat sets aren't for everyone- some cannot get by not having a 3-4 inch hole at a set-but their use increases coyote success and 2 different odors makes a big difference over one.

Try it- and tell me if it works or not. EVERY trapper that I've talked to and convinced to try 2 lures- has reported increased success.

PS- I hear lots of peole who cannot catch cooytes i nremakes.....hmmmn...I use multiple odors and catch most of my coyotes n remakes. With possums, coon, cats, fox, skunks and yes coyotes, I seldom have a set out for more than a day or two without it BEING a remake.

Because something doesn't work for you, do not assume it doesn't work for others. Different strokes for different folks...

[Asa Lenon]

With all due respect I repeat, using multiple lures and holes helter skelter as a means of getting an animal to track and traipse all over the set area is an idea born in the minds of kids, amateurs, magazine article writers and Johnny come letelys.  I've been associated for 60+ years with scores of some of Americas best trappers who made/make a living with a trap and never knew even one that didn't keep sets and techniques simple and uncomplicated.  Thats my opinion and i'm sticking to it!!!  Ace

[trappnman]

and I certainly stick to my opinion that your statement is nonsense.

I can't say I've been trapping for 60 years, but I've trapped almost 50- and know and talk to the BEST coyote men out there. I've put close to 1400 coyotes on the boards using these methods in an area where if you take 25 coyotes- you da man!

I repeat, those wanting to know HOW to use 2 hole sets and how to make flat sets, see my demo at WI or NE this Sept.

I'll never say ones methods I know nothing about don't work or are substandard- once you stop learning, you stop growing.

[Bogmaster]

Dang picky coyote trappers,you guys couldn't agree on the day of the week.lol---Sorry I shouldn't pick on the flea bus trappers.Seems like most trappers are that way.
 If you want to see how to catch those beautiful Beavers, I will be doing 2 demos on them at Wisconsin and 2 demos on them at Nebraska.
 If you can't make those two shows,I will also be doing the same demo in Missouri and Illinois,at their conventions.
 God must love beaver trappers,we are so sweet and even tempered.
 Tom

[trappnman]

I've always tried for 1 beaver...so am looking forward to your 2 beaver demo...couldn't resist and look forward to seeing you in WI.

[trappnman]

jst to show I'm not the only one out there with this type of thought, Bob Wendt posted this on CRU forum concerning the very issue- unrelated to this thread and just a coincidence- but it was so apt I had to repeat it:

there is great advantage to have 2 different smells in 2 different places. the more steps, the greater the likelyhood of the foot on the pan. I`m sure a canine sticks his nose on one, shuffles a little and then noses the other, i.e. more steps. as long as that lure or bait is hard to get to, and he really wants it, not just a sniff and bye, more steps yet.

Keep in mind- I'm not saying 2 lures/odors is the ONLY successful way to trap coyotes, just showing it is an ACCEPTED way to do so.

In any case Asa, good trapping to you and I know your methods work well for you.

[Asa Lenon]

Trappnman:
No one ever said the sets wouldn't work, just that multiple holes accompanied by multiple lures is unnecessary and time consuming. Don't try to tell me that the principal of multiple holes isn't to keep the animal stepping around to increase the chances of a foot/trap pan connection. You said yourself in an above posting "I find that using 2 holes at flat sets does 2 things 1) increases coyotes working the set 2) increase catches." By "working the set" I assume you mean tracking, traipsing and stepping all over the place in hopes of making a connection. Again, this idea is amateur and unnecessary as experienced trapper have learned  proper trap placement and guiding techniques that work.  98 out of 100 animals I catch never even had a chance to track and traipse or dig into the hole, they stepped right up to the set and through proper trap placement and guiding put there foot where I wanted it. You yourself for example have been an advocate of the step-down set in the past. Step-down sets are deadly because when the animal steps down to the lowest point, that is where one's trap pan is located and a perfect form of foot guiding.  There is no need for 10 holes and 10 lures to entice tracking and traipsing.  You accuse me of never having tried the amateurish method, how could you possibly know that???  In fact I did try sets that like that and found them to decrease my catch by animals tracking around and putting there feet everywhere but on the trap pan, digging out holes and going merrily on there way with my scent sticks in their mouth. Just to set the record straight, if you think my post was a personal jab at you which has caused a burr under your saddle, your wrong.  I had no idea that you advocated that method of setting. I was simply attempting to help a fellow trapper who had a question and I misunderstood his question. Ace

[trappnman]

I agree 100% with Bob Wendt on this issue.

In fact I did try sets that like that and found them to decrease my catch by animals tracking around and putting there feet everywhere but on the trap pan, digging out holes and going merrily on there way with my scent sticks in their mouth.

then you need to learn how to guide.

We had this SAME discussion started off by you posting the SAME characterations of methods other than your own as ameteurish about 3 years ago- here, on this same forum.

[Asa Lenon]

No. no, no trappnman YOU need to learn how to guide and then you can dig one quick hole, place one quick scent stick and be on you way like a professional without you tracking and traipsing all over the set area leaving a dozen scent trails while digging a dozen holes and  applying a dozen scents!!!  Certainly, if one subscribes to your multiple hole/scent theory, a dozen holes with a dozen different lures will really make a canine "work the set." Why stop with only a dozen, maybe 50 would surely get a foot/trap pan connection, the more the better!!!  LOL!   Ace

[trappnman]

if this is true: In fact I did try sets that like that and found them to decrease my catch by animals tracking around and putting there feet everywhere but on the trap pan, digging out holes and going merrily on there way with my scent sticks in their mouth.


then your guiding is terrible- no ifs, ands or buts.  Or more to the point, it sounds like you used no guides.  Or if you used guides, you used thme wrong. Thats self evident by your above statement and well shows why you do not like flat sets. I can understand that.


as to the rest of your post- whatever.

[trappnman]

this is just getting sillier by the second- pray tell me how does

place one quick scent stick and be on you way like a professional without you tracking and traipsing all over the set area leaving a dozen scent trails while digging a dozen holes and applying a dozen scents!!!

have any kind of rationality behind it. It takes a few seconds while at the set to add a second lure.  think about it!

[Asa Lenon]

trappnman writes...It takes a few seconds while at the set to add a second lure. think about it!

How many time do I have to tell you, ALL the trappers i've known that make a living with a trap keep things simple, quick and easy with no lingering at a set to leave blatant human and foreign scents and to accomplish time managenent.  Just deciding where to dig those dozen holes and figuring out which lure to apply to get the animals dancing is time consunming in itself. Yes, its getting sillier all the time, its the only way one can get through sometimes. Again, if two holes and two scents are better than one hole and one scent then twelve holes with twelve scents certainly is more effective than two and fifty holes with fifty scents must certainly be more effective than twelve holes and twelve scents in your way of thinking. I'm only bordering on "silly" as it show how silly the procedure can become. One only need to use common sense, one hole, a one scent and learn guiding by trial and error to harvest in maximum numbers.  To think that one must get animals dancing, tracking and traipsing to ensure success is definitely an amateurish idea, period.  As I said, once one gets the dancing, tracking and traipsing pattern and proper scent selection down pat its probably a good workable system if one wants to spend excess time at the set and stay in that rut for 50 years.  Personally, I would rather put out a few more sets in a day's time.  Ace

[trappnman]

I was wrong- its gotten even sillier.

Its obvious that you are stuck in one method of trapping- dirthole, trap back 8 inches, to the left 3 inches, rubber boots, etc....and thats fine- but as evidenced by your own statement- your lack of guiding is what gave you poor success at other types of sets.

If you want to debate old time methods vs modern methods- lets look at the silver bullet theory of super cleanliness, rubber boots, rubber gloves, etc that you practice. Most of the coyote men today find these theroies to be old school and unnecesary. I do too.

I'd rather get a few more good flat sets out then waste all that time changing in and out of rubber boots at every set and cutting and carrying pine branches to store your traps in.

Since you keep bring up professionalism- are we now talking numbers?

[Asa Lenon]

     Bye trappnman!

[mmwb]

...and thus the difference between watching a couple of amature light weights sparing at the gym and two professional, heavy weights, on pay per view....     Great insights from both corners!lol

[jim-NE]

I learned the 2-hole dirthole set (two holes, one trap/dirt pattern) from Charlie Dobbins when I was a kid.
Arguments over the most efficient set, or best trap, or best lure or location, are just that.
Whatever works for you, and whatever works for others, great. I've seen some sets that seemed very silly in terms of generating comments like, "gee...that takes a tremendous amount of additional effort" type of sets such as a big mound made with a 5-gallon bucket of dirt, etc. But if it works, cool.
Same with simpler sets that take minimal effort, and are just as successful. They are a great tool to have in the set arsenal, too.
Whatever works, great. I love trying new sets...it keeps this fun for me. There are a lot of people trying to learn new stuff on this site. Others are just looking to share some ideas.
I use both singles and doubles (holes at individual sets).
As for 3 dirthole sets in one locations (3 sets, 3 holes, 3 traps)...gang setting is something I've done (and still do) too. I like to use different baits and or lures at the three sets...to answer your original question. I don't like to take a chance on not offering the preferred menu item of choice for that critter on that day. Does it work better than if I only make the sets all the same food or lure? I don't know. I catch some fur if I offer the variety...so why not change it up a bit?
jim-NE

[mallarddrake85]

we like a paste meat lure in one, a gland lure in another  and a lil urine on a backing.  never tried a 3 hole dirt hole set...

[pintaildrake]

we have always used either 1 or 2 holes, never 3. i dunno why? we use a paste bait in one and sometiem use a whole mouse in the other. add fur for sight appeal and you will catch every yote and fox around