Author Topic: Big problem... (Read 4556 times)

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #30 on:** August 30, 2005, 12:28:38 AM »

Quote from: cheatermk3

mmb-
I thought you meant 7.62 NATO--my mistake.

No way the bullet is still in the barrel--steel jacket or not it certainly swaged down to 244 and went downrange.

There's probably all kinds of residue/shavings in the mechanism that is keeping the latch lever from being depressed.

Send it to NEF or take it to a qualified gunsmith.

Fred's right about the extra 12mm- the bullet must have stopped somewhere in the shoulder area of the chamber when your brother's friend put it into the rifle. Think about it--no way could a .311 or even a 308 diameter bullet pass through the neck area of a .243's chamber by hand-pressure alone, no matter how hard the action was slammed shut--the max dimension there is probably about .280". The extra room in the chamber must have allowed the pressure to be lowered enough that the bullet went out the muzzle in stead of the rifle coming apart, which I agree it may very well do the next time it's fired.

AGAIN! There Is NO 12 mm extra space I checked A 7.62x29 round will go off in a 243 chamber because a very close headspace in relation to the breach is in created by the ogive of the larger bullet resting in the 243 throat. Otherwise if there had been 12 mm of extra headspace the firing pin would have just driven the shorter case farther into the chamber without setting it off. This was probably the worst possible combination for you'r handi.

218Bee · « **Reply #31 on:** August 30, 2005, 12:52:47 AM »

Check your manual Krochus. I believe Fred is referring to the case dimension at the shoulder. Not length but width.

Rick

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 30, 2005, 02:08:14 AM »

WOW I would get it open some how & send it back to H&R

Worst I have seen/heard is a 7-08 in a 270 & a 7.62x39 in a .308
no problems noted with rifles when checked but the brass sure looked funny

Varminter · « **Reply #33 on:** August 30, 2005, 02:42:33 AM »

People need to quit cracking on Fred. He probably has more experience than MOST of you all. After reading all the posts i have come to agree with Fred. I would still have someon check the barrel but it should be fine. As for the action....you might as well throw it in the scrape heep. If you can post a pic of the the case after you get it removed.

kenbev · « **Reply #34 on:** August 30, 2005, 03:46:53 AM »

Fellows, I would have to take it apart and see what damage is done. Then I would send it to H&R for a complete check. YES, I would like to see pictures of this.

PS: It makes me double check with my own rifles as I have several with nearly the same shell case...(25-06, 270, 280, 7X64, 30-06, 35 Whelan) (243, 7mm-08, 308)

Graybeard · « **Reply #35 on:** August 30, 2005, 03:46:54 AM »

It's YOUR gun, YOUR eyes, YOUR hands/fingers and YOUR life. Do as you please.

BUT anyone who gives advice that just cleaning it up and considering it safe to fire IS NOT giving sane advice. NEVER EVER after this happens do you just go back to business as usual. Without the proper equipment to make 100% certain it's OK you should never fire a gun again after such a blow up.

I'm real close to dumping this entire thread due to the dangerous advice being given. I will not stand by and allow stupid and dangerous advice to be given and not challenged.

tom barthel · « **Reply #36 on:** August 30, 2005, 03:51:14 AM »

Hi

I just thought I would weigh in on this. My suggestion IS call or e-mail nef with a full explanation before doing anything. ASK THEIR ADVICE AND GO FROM THERE. If your rifle is rendered trash, write it off and get another. Perhaps your friend could help out with expenses. This is a good lesson. I'm thankful no one was hurt in learning it.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

Varminter · « **Reply #37 on:** August 30, 2005, 04:08:15 AM »

GB I'll have to take up for Fred on this one. He has by no means said the RECEIVER was fine. Just the BARREL And he gave no positive answer there either. Just (barrel) IT SHOULD BE OK

Graybeard · « **Reply #38 on:** August 30, 2005, 04:26:54 AM »

Geez, get over the "Fread admiration society" guys.

Anyone who would recommend firing a gun, barrel or frame one or both in which the wrong round was touched off when you've not even seen it is just plain irresponsible. Had he laid hands and eyes on it and done some testing then MAYBE he could make the statement.

I seriously doubt this thread will survive the next time I read it. I'm just NOT going to allow unsafe advice to be passed out here. No one can declare anything safe about the weapon without seeing it. Anyone who thinks they can has a serious problem they need to get over.

Sure it might be fine. It also MIGHT NOT. The chances are a lot great it won't be fine. But ONLY someone who sees it and has both the knowledge and equipment to verify the safety of it can make the decsion on which.

Fred M · « **Reply #39 on:** August 30, 2005, 05:45:52 AM »

There are two things I admire, one is the bible the other is mathematics.
One solves my spiritual problems the other the physical ones.

I never gave unsafe advise, and never would. As far as the the person is concerned putting me on his ignore list, he is welcome to it. His wisdom needs no further input.

Quote

Proverbs: 23-9
Speak not in the ears of a fool for he will despise the wisdom of your words.

Proverbs 15-2
The tongue of the wise man useth knowledge aright but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.

I know you can wipe out anything you don't like, right or wrong. You can if you like ban me from this forum. I really don't need it. The below seams like a foregone conclusion.

Quote

I seriously doubt this thread will survive the next time I read it. I'm just NOT going to allow unsafe advice to be passed out here. No one can declare anything safe about the weapon without seeing it. Anyone who thinks they can has a serious problem they need to get over.

handirifle · « **Reply #40 on:** August 30, 2005, 06:39:00 AM »

Once H&R gets it they might offer you a discount on a new receiver if necessary.

Even in CA where we have a 10 day wait on EVERYTHING Henry sent me a whole new rifle and no paperwork required. They said it is just for the initial sale. It wasn't my fault on the Henry though.

Good luck, let us know how it comes out.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #41 on:** August 30, 2005, 07:02:58 AM »

I had to go back and re-read what has been said here...just to make sure I was right in seeing what's been posted on this.No-one has said it was ok to fire the barrel without first having it checked out...what Fred did say was.

Quote

I think the barrel will be ok after a good cleaning??

And then this..

Quote

The barrel I still think will be OK since there was no obstruction in the barrel, and steel is a lot harder than a lead core bullet. No need to get paranoid. The pressure was relieved otherwise the gun would have blown up.

He further went on to say this..

Quote

I did not say that gun is still shootable which I doubt, but I think that the barrel is ok. If you know something about the action design you know that in front of the latch at the chamber mouth the steel is pretty thin and with reason since the pressure there will be no more than 9000 psi, so a 100% safety factor make it say 18 K.

That is the weak spot and that is perhaps why the latch is jammed in place by bulged standing breech. In this case the action is toast.

I don't see anybody else come up with a plausible explanation. Only wise cracks. By all means send it in to H&R, but I punch out the pins to see with my own eyes first what is what.

I think the sticking point,,to many here, is that he didn't recommend having it checked out by a qualified gunsmith in the first place...Only a complete idiot would shoot this gun without having it checked out first after this happening....and I haven't seen anyone,including Fred, recommend that here....

While Fred has his opinion.I don't think he has said anything dangerous...However NEF has their opinion..I just spoke with Gordon at NEF...and he says send it back as it is...and be straight up in your explanation of what happened...if it can be repaired...it will be...if not and if there are any charges involved they will contact you.They are willing to work with you on getting it fixed.....It doesn't get better than that from them.and shows they have a pretty good Customer Service department...give him a call...1-978-630-8220...ask to speak with Gordon.

Mac

mattparliament · « **Reply #42 on:** August 30, 2005, 10:05:39 AM »

Hope your customer service wit H&R goes half as well as the service done in that last post! If it does you'll be in good hands.

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #43 on:** August 30, 2005, 12:26:01 PM »

I think if it were my gun I would try puting in a vise and squeezing it together enough for the release button to be pushed in,and see if it would open the action. Digger

quickdtoo · « **Reply #44 on:** August 30, 2005, 01:03:03 PM »

It's possible that the firing pin is protruding into the primer and keeping it from opening. That's what my Maxi did when shooting it on a topper frame....made it almost impossible to open normally, had to break it over my knee to get it open....dunno, just one possibility....maybe??

218Bee · « **Reply #45 on:** August 30, 2005, 01:13:31 PM »

Thanks for clearing that up Mac.

And since I didn't explicitly say it in my response...DO NOT USE THIS FIREARM UNTIL IT HAS BEEN REPAIRED AT THE FACTORY.

As guncranks we are interested in the dynamics of any mishap like this. Thankfully no one was injured or killed in this case. I think most of the replys here were meant to determine the what, how and why of the incident.

We only want to be able to take something away from a rare accident that raises many questions in the minds of people who enjoy these great rifles.

It will serve as a good reminder to know your rifle and the round you are chambering.

Rick

jerkface11 · « **Reply #46 on:** August 30, 2005, 01:17:27 PM »

This sounds like a totally trashed handi you're lucky it was strong enough not to grenade on you. Keep the ammo segregated from now on.

mmb1226 · « **Reply #47 on:** September 08, 2005, 10:26:51 AM »

I just got off the phone with Jen at H&R and she told me that the action is fine. The only problem they are having is that the barrel seems to be bent and will not lock up tight. I am going to have them put a new fluted 204 barrel on the action since I wasn't overly impressed by the 243 anyway. My only worry now is that the 308 barrel that I bought from Jeff on here won't lock up. What are your thoughts? Maybe I should have H&R put a 204 and 308 barrel on and sell my 308 on ebay. Thanks for everyones help.

Graybeard · « **Reply #48 on:** September 08, 2005, 10:44:45 AM »

Hmm, now how about that. And some folks seemed to think the barrel was gonna be jist fine. :roll: Imagine that. :eek:

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #49 on:** September 08, 2005, 10:47:49 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard

Hmm, now how about that. And some folks seemed to think the barrel was gonna be jist fine. :roll: Imagine that. :eek:

Hmm i had a hunch that was coming LOL

Haywire Haywood · « **Reply #50 on:** September 08, 2005, 02:00:54 PM »

I hear there's crow on the table just a steamin, ready for a fork and knife to make an end of it.

Ian

quickdtoo · « **Reply #51 on:** September 08, 2005, 02:11:13 PM »

:-D :-D :-D :agree: :agree: :agree:

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #52 on:** September 08, 2005, 03:38:11 PM »

Bent?

I can easily understand how it could be bulged, especially in the chamber area, but bent?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #53 on:** September 08, 2005, 04:00:18 PM »

Maybe the underlug was damaged which is part of the barrel as far as Jennifer would be concerned.

MtJerry · « **Reply #54 on:** September 08, 2005, 04:41:48 PM »

Quote from: cheatermk3

Bent?

I can easily understand how it could be bulged, especially in the chamber area, but bent?

Just how hard did they have to whack it over their knee to get it open

quickdtoo · « **Reply #55 on:** September 08, 2005, 04:43:40 PM »

Quote from: mmb1226

Thanks for everyones input. We ARE very lucky all we ended up with was a damaged rifle. If I send it back to H&R I will have to send it back with the shell still in the action. Is it ok to mail something like this? Anyone on the board from STL know of a gunsmith who works with these rifles a lot?

It wouldn't open by the shooter, it was sent to H&R for repair with the spent case in the chamber.

Fred M · « **Reply #56 on:** September 08, 2005, 07:31:08 PM »

The experts say

Quote

the barrel seems to be bent and will not lock up tight.

SeamsWhat a joke, they can't tell whether the barrel is bent or not.
Anybody in the barrel business knows how to tell whether a barrel is straight or bent. I know and I can tell, no guessing.

Many Factory barrels are straightened, why can't they do that. Suppose they don't know how.

Quote

The action is fine

How can the action be fine and the barrel bent?

Quote

the barrel seems to be bent and will not lock up tight.

I can think of a handful reasons why a barrel won't lock up tight.
Besides you don't need to shoot a wrong cartridge to do that. Many Handi's
don't lock up tight shooting the RIGHT cartridges.

For you guys that relish for me to eat crow should perhaps indulge in the feast yourself, because I am not. You have not come up with anything that make any sense.

See you later alligators.

mmb1226 · « **Reply #57 on:** September 09, 2005, 05:22:52 AM »

Just spoke with Jen again. I decided to get the 204 fluted barrel put on. I tried to ask a few questions about what they found but she seemed to be in a big rush. All I could really get was that the barrel lug was bent from pressure and would not lock up prpoerly. Hopefully I didn't throw anyone off by saying the barrel was bent but thats how I understood her yesterday. Anxious for my new 204 to arrive.

Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #58 on:** September 09, 2005, 05:30:15 AM »

Thanks for the followup Matt!

Fred, chill out, we're just kidding ya!!! :grin:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #59 on:** September 09, 2005, 05:46:28 AM »

Guys...Guys...this was easily cleared up...I just got off the phone too with Gordon at H&R...and asked him exactly what was bent on the barrel,and as Matt had already stated...the reciever was fine..it wasn't stretched..nor was the hinge pin bent...it was the underlug...the barrel itself was fine...they had already checked the chamber and rifling...all seem ok to them...so they were in the process of putting it back on the reciever to test fire it when they found it to just wobble and wouldn't lock back up....He did say that a piece of the case was missing...and don't know if it just fell out or went down the barrel...but everything else was fine otherwise.This just goes to show you that the gun is a lot stronger than it is normally thought to be...and I for one am glad it has been worked out for the concerned parties involved.

As with any serious mishap like this...the most preudent thing one can do is to call the company and see what appropiate steps are to be taken.NEF ...and the folks who work in the customer service department are easy to work with and go out of their way to make things right for us,even when it's our own fault.

Mac