primer pockets 44

[bluebayou]

I was thinking about how not following through on the trigger pull affects the POI.  Would not cleaning my primer pockets do the same thing because the primer is at a different depth?  Was thinking about my best group with the handloads that I tried this weekend and how 2 shots were together about an inch higher than the other 3 that were touching.

[JPH45]

You can do a lot of accuracy studies, and determine it takes a very accurate rifle to determine that dirty primer pockets cause fliers, if you can prove it at all. In fact, most of what I have read and seen myself over time is that it don't make a difference. What you are describing, a rifle that is "two grouping" is quite common amoung Handis. With my 44 and cast, the better my bullets fit the bore the less of that I saw, I didn't do a lot of work with jacketed, but what I did seemed to point toward bullet weight being a factor, the heavier the bullet, the less two grouping I saw. The questions I would have about this center around the load, what powder, what bullet, what approximate velocity (exact if you have a chronograph) Two grouping can also be indicative of the repeatabililty of your rest. The more consistant your return to the rest; the rifle in the same place every time, held the same for each shot; the less of this you see. It can also be a sign of bedding problems. Do a search on "oring" or "oring fix", I simply don't tighten my forearm down hard, always leaving a slight bit of "rattle"

[bluebayou]

Interesting.  The 223 barrel on the same frame does the same thing:  3 shots and 2 shots.  Actually, you commented on a similar question that I had here:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=53529&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

I am going to break out the White Box 240 JSP's and the White Box 45 JHP's and do some experimenting.  Will try that "rattle" in the forearm too.

[safetysheriff]

bb'

an interesting piece i read recently stated that barrels that have been straightened, by bending them, will exhibit problems with grouping as they heat up.   i'm not sure what % of Handi' barrels have ever been straightened, but the process is assuredlyl injurious to accuracy as the barrel warms.   one side of the barrel develops stresses in it as it is stretched and they affect 'poi' as the area is heated up.  

a change of propellant can also help eliminate this double-grouping in some cartridges.     then too, if you allow a round to 'cook' in the chamber, getting the propellant warmed up, it will shoot to a different 'poi'  

just a thought......although the ideas already posited elsewhere have merit, too.

ss'

[JPH45]

SS, Thats odd, before the barrel is fitted at on a Savage 110 action, it is checked for straightness, and bent as required to straighten. The Savage has an enormous reputation for being one of the most accurate out of the box guns a fella can buy. Maybe Savage hasn't read the article.

[bluebayou]

Another interesting point.  When shooting I have been firing, ejecting, chambering, waiting, firing.  It occurred to me at some point that the rifle would cool faster with the breech open, but I hadn't thought about how a hot chamber might affect POI just due to heating the powder.  I started with Varget in the 7-08 cases partly because of the "not temperature sensitive" advertising.  

Another variable to play with.  One nice thing about a long commute  to work (through the country, not city) is that you have time to think.

[quickdtoo]

Another interesting point. When shooting I have been firing, ejecting, chambering, waiting, firing. It occurred to me at some point that the rifle would cool faster with the breech open...

FWIW, I cool mine in the vertical rack at the range with the barrel broke open to act like a chimney so more cool air will work thru the bore to cool it quicker between groups. I usually take 3 to 5 rifles with me to the range to get my money's worth in range fees....cycling thru them this way, by the time I'm back to any one rifle, it's nice and cool.....if the weather isn't hotter than blazes!! :roll:

[safetysheriff]

SS, Thats odd, before the barrel is fitted at on a Savage 110 action, it is checked for straightness, and bent as required to straighten. The Savage has an enormous reputation for being one of the most accurate out of the box guns a fella can buy. Maybe Savage hasn't read the article.

yes, i know, ssss....ssssssaaa., browning, winchester, cz, etc.etc.etc. EVERYONE OF 'EM makes the MOST ACCURATE RIFLE  they all say.   how can they ALL be the most accurate??   (how did i convince one of the BEST deer hunters east of the Mississippi to start buying Remington's after all that other hype he'd read and believed?)

or, maybe sssssss, sssssaaaaa,  maybe they don't have to straighten too many barrels with their manufacturing method.

i'll take roy dunlap's word for the problems created by straightening barrels when he says such bending is "very likely" to cause problems.

"Gunsmithing" by Roy F. Dunlap speaks of the potential for problems created by straightening barrels on page 188.

HOWEVER, jph'    that wasn't originally posted for your consumption but for those who might want to learn one more tip about a possible source of a problem with a rifle.    i never posted it for your use.

take care,

ss'