Author Topic: 10 inch .223 T/C Contender Bull Barrel: Is It Long Enough? (Read 3044 times)

Pack'N Paul · « **on:** September 11, 2005, 01:09:55 PM »

I'm in the market for a 10 inch .223 T/C contender Bull Barrel. I like 10 inch barrel, they seem to balance well for me.

I do have a question or two before I buy a 10 inch .223 T/C contender barrel.

Will the .223 have time to burn up all its powder in a 10 inch barrel?

Will the .223 loose speed and act. being shot out of a 10 inch barrel?

Thanks,

Paul

mikemayberry · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2005, 03:22:51 PM »

PackNPaul,

I have a similar idea for a 12" Encore barrel and will anxiously await the replies that come to this question.

Mike

jhalcott · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2005, 03:52:11 PM »

C'mon guys! Do you think Remington spent all that $$$ developing the 221 if they could just load 223's in the original 10 inch XP100?The 223 WILL do good in the short 10-12" barrels,It is a very good 200 plus yard small varmint caliber.Plus surplus ammo is cheap with decent accuracy to boot. I have a 223 10",14" and 21" also a Rem 700 bolt gun. Ammo is NOT interchangeable in these barrels. I use color coded boxes for each barrel! You will lose about 200 fps going to the 10" barrel from the 14" barrel. A 24" bolt gun can get 3400 from a 50 grain pill,the 14" barrel will only get 3000 fps from the same loads.! A 10" will barely break 2800 fps.

SD Handgunner · « **Reply #3 on:** September 11, 2005, 07:16:44 PM »

I too have always had a fondness for 10" Contender Barrels. Being primarily a Varmint Hunter I just had to try a 10" .223. Man was I disappointed, at first. I quickly learned that I could get good accurate loads with the 10" .223 BUT the velocity was less than I wanted, and the Muzzle Blast & Flash was horrible.

Then one day I stumbled onto 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips and IMR-4198 Powder. This woke up my 10" .223, made it quite shootable in terms of Muzzle Blast & Flash, and accuracy was quite good. I found that the 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip / IMR-4198 loads actually produce better trajectories and retained velocity than the 50gr. Remington and Winchester Pointed Soft Points I had previously used, and the bullet performance on little critters was much, much better with the 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Other powders I tried with the 40gr'rs. were H-4198SC, H-322 and W-748. I obtained the best accuracy and velocity with IMR-4198, and the most pleasant shooting loads as well.

Larry

Reed1911 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 12, 2005, 01:54:03 AM »

If you are not a handloader, we do load the .223 for short barrels.

Elwood · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2005, 10:45:35 AM »

Yeah, of course you will loose velocity.
but how much is to much? At ranges appropriate for a handgun it will not matter. One more issue is muzzle blast, WOW. It is seriously loud. Learn to read lips or always use ear protection.
Elwood.

mikemayberry · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2005, 05:06:20 PM »

Ron,

Can you elaborate on your loads for the shorter .223 barrels. I'm not asking for your "secret recipe" but more about how your loads perform out of the shorter barrels.

Any info you can give on speed, trajectory, recoil, etc. will help me determine if I want a 10-12 inch barrel in .223.

Thanks!

Mike

SD Handgunner · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2005, 06:01:26 PM »

Below are the loads I tested in my last 10" .223 Contender.

40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip - IMR-4198 - 2952 FPS
40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip - Blue Dot - 2784 FPS
40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip - W-748 - 2729 FPS
40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip - H-322 - 2688 FPS
50gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point - IMR-4198 - 2689 FPS
50gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point - AA1680 - 2427 FPS
50gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point - IMR-4227 - 2268 FPS
52gr. Speer Hollow Point - H-322 - 2545 FPS

The loads in BOLD were the most accurate, and the loads with IMR-4198 & Blue Dot Powders were the most pleasant to shoot. With the 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2952 FPS I have taken numerous small varmints out to and slightly past 200 yards when shooting from a solid rest. The Ballistic Coefficient of the 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip is quite a bit higher than that of the 50gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point I used, and as such provided better down range performance. I have also found the 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip to provide good bullet performance at reduced impact velocities.

Good luck should you choose a 10" .223, the 10" Barrels really do carry nicely and point quite well when a less than ideal rest is available.

Larry

Lone Star · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2005, 04:40:55 AM »

The reality check is.....no bottlenecked cartridge will give the same velocity in a 10" barrel than it will in a 14" or 16" or 22" barrel. That includes the sainted .221; the .223 will easily exceed .221 speeds in a 10" barrel. Remember that the .221 was developed over 40 years ago by a small team at Remington working on a shoestring; there is a lot more known today about handgun cartridges and loading for short barrels. Back in the early '60s, it was mostly conjecture and basic experimentation.

I use the 40-grain V-Max with BlueDot powder in my 10" .223 T/C with great results. Accuracy and report are much better than factory ammo. This is not a .22 Hornet duplication load either, it gets 2700+ fps.

I own a bunch of 14/15" T/C barrels and use them a lot, but I like the 10" versions too; they are easier to carry and shoot very well. :grin:

mikemayberry · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2005, 04:41:29 AM »

One of my friends who shoots .223 from a 14 inch barrel with factory ammo says he is constantly amazed at the muzzle blast and unburnt powder.

That's kinda what has been holding me up on this project. SD Handgunner, do you avoid these problems with your favored handloads?

Mike

Possum · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2005, 07:35:15 AM »

I shoot Blue Dot in my 14", but I would also opt for it in a 10" due to the fast burning nature of the powder. There is very little recoil with this powder also.

The faster burning powders will burn in fewer inches of barrel than the slower burning powders. The factory 223 are designed around rifle length barrels and therefore have more powder left unburned in the barrels. Someone correct me if I have mis-stated something.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2005, 08:44:05 AM »

SDhandgunner, You didn't tell us how many grains of powder you were using.

Lone Star · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2005, 10:41:40 AM »

At normal pressures, virtually all powder is burned in the first few inches of the barrel - that's where the peak chamber pressure is found. The produced gasses are still flamable but with no oxygen left in the barrel they can't burn. Once they hit the muzzle they get oxygen and burn bright. Shorter barrels have higher muzzle pressures so the blast and flash are greater than in longer barrels.

If you shoot over snow you'll not see piles of unburned grains of powder under the muzzle of handguns shooting normal-pressured loads. At lower pressures, there can be a lot of unburned powder. And some powders just are not fully consumed no matter what the barrel length - Alliant 2400 for instance. You'll find partially burned grains of 2400 even when firing a full power load in a 22" .44 Magnum barrel.

It is usual not to list specific loads on this site to avoid liability and typo problems. Do a Google search for BlueDot and .223 and you can find plenty of data; here for instance:
http://www.savageshooters.net/Reloading/223_LoadData.html

Pack'N Paul · « **Reply #13 on:** September 15, 2005, 04:13:18 PM »

A Huge Note of Thanks to each and everyone who posted on this thread. There is a world of information here.

:grin: Paul

mikemayberry · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2005, 05:02:38 PM »

PackNPaul,

Thanks for letting me jump in with a few bonus questions on your topic. Hope your project works out well!

Mike

Pack'N Paul · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2005, 05:29:06 PM »

Mikemayberry,

I think your questions added alot to the thread. Please feel free to add to the thread anytime you've got a question.

Paul

Steve P · « **Reply #16 on:** September 16, 2005, 09:14:09 AM »

There is nothing wrong with shooting a .223 cartridge out of a 10" barrel. This is a good economical way to get some shooting in. You will NOT get the performance or velocity as you would in a longer barrel.

As stated before, the .221 fireball and some of the other cartridges were designed with the shorter barrel in mind. Yes, there are more desireable cartridges for the 10" barrel, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun.

If you look at some of the prior posts, they are using blue dot and 4227. Both powders are normally used in pistol length barrels.

Anyone using powders like ww748 and H322 are likely not getting a complete burn in the 10" barrel. Silhouette shooters tried this years ago with the TCU family of cartridges. I tried and tried to get a good load in my 12" hunter barrel. They shoot fine and are accurate, but you get dirty brass and barrel and flames out the muzzle. There are better powders out now.

AA 1680, Lil Gun, VVN133 may work better for you in the 10" barrel. Use a Winchester Small Rifle primer to get the best ignition. Even these can give you muzzle blast and dirty barrel if going for top loads. Keep the loads mild and neck size only. I think you will be suprised at the accuracy you find.

Just my opinion after a many thousands of rounds thru 10" contenders.

Steve

Pack'N Paul · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2005, 04:38:14 AM »

Thanks So Much for the valuable information.

Paul :-)

TC Shooter · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2005, 06:02:09 AM »

For the .223 in the TC I like the Super 14. I had one a few years back and the pic (sorry for the poor quality) shows the typical groups at 100 yards. Back then I usually loaded with H322 - the blast was not severe in the 14" barrel and the accuracy was good.

In the 10" TC after subtracting the approx. 2.2" OAL of .223 cartridge you actually have about 7.8" of "usable" barrel where the Super 14 gives you 11.8".

Lone Star · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2005, 08:51:01 AM »

Quote

In the 10" TC after subtracting the approx. 2.2" OAL of .223 cartridge you actually have about 7.8" of "usable" barrel where the Super 14 gives you 11.8".

.....and a 16" barrel gives you a 13.8" usable length and a 26" barrel only has a 23.8" usable length....your point being? :wink:

If you really want a lot of flash and report out of a 10" .223, try loading a 40-grain bullet with a max charge of H-335! :shock: :shock: :shock: I'd rather sit next to a ported .30-.378 Weatherby.

TC Shooter · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2005, 10:45:15 AM »

My point being that the Super 14 is a more efficient barrel length for the .223 and has worked very well for me as far as accuracy and less muzzle blast. Did not mean to offend anyone or ruffle any feathers.

mikemayberry · « **Reply #21 on:** October 11, 2005, 05:27:26 PM »

Having now shot my new 12" Encore .223, I can say that muzzle blast and kick are not going to be a concern.

Have started the process by using Ron Reed's custom reloads and will continue to break in the barrel. First impressions are that it is going to be great.

Ron custom loaded 50 rounds for me to get started with a faster burning powder that left virtually zero residue in the barrel. He also sold me the new barrel and agreed to help me find a great load combination.

I will continue with reports of accurary on this barrel. I can only add that I expected more noise and blast but would catagorize it as about 2/3 less than my 12" 44 mag with the same setup.

Can't wait to see what it will do as the barrel breaks in and the loads are developed.

Thanks to Ron for everything. Did I mention that he is an advertiser on Graybeard Outdoors and a frequent contributor on the forums?

Mike