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Author Topic: Scoping the 45-70BC  (Read 902 times)

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Offline Steelbanger

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« on: September 12, 2005, 01:48:27 AM »
Since the factory rear sight hasn't enough elevation adjustment in spite of the fact that I changed to a lower front sight, I'm considering mounting a scope on my BC. If anyone is using a scope, how high is it mounted in order to clear the hammer? I like low-mounted arrangements but looks to me like I will need really high rings.

This rifle with open sights does well at 50 yds using the Lee 500 grainer and using my 12X Leupold should really tighten the groups.

Was it here that someone said that the H & R hammer reminds them of a cats tail sticking straight up? Whoever said that, they nailed it.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2005, 04:01:16 AM »
Mounting a scope on a BC is no different than a Handi or an Ultra, same SB2 frame. Depends on the scope and how it's mounted, the power ring or ocular bell will more than likely interfere with the hammer unless you use high rings. I can usually get away with medium Burris Signature Zees on most scopes by placing the scope so the hammer swings in front of or just behind the power ring or just in front of the ocular bell, but not always. I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 Mildot scoped BC mounted in mediums which are .270" tall. Some have ground a bit off the top of the hammer spur to provide a little clearance cuz it doesn't take much, but that might void the warranty, dunno for sure.

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Offline Haywire Haywood

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2005, 04:47:35 AM »
I seem to recall someone saying that there was a hammer off a different model that was a lower profile and a drop-in replacement.  Pardner maybe?  I forget but I think it was available at e-gunparts.com.  Tim, maybe you recall that discussion.  I've slept once or twice since then.

Ian
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Offline quickdtoo

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2005, 05:08:55 AM »
Thanks Ian, I remember the thread and did a search, the Topper 158 hammer is apparently the one to try if anyone is interested...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=58681&highlight=modified+hammer

Numrich has 4 hammers listed for the M158 including a gold plated version!!

http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=1560z158

I found this at Brownell's....

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16500
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Offline Steelbanger

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2005, 05:26:10 AM »
Thanks for the input. I see there are several options available, but I guess I'll dig around for the highest ring set I have on hand & try that first.
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Offline knight0334

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2005, 05:59:33 AM »
Gold plated?!

Sweet!  I know what I'll be ordering for my BC and my Handi 45-70's real soon.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2005, 06:12:30 AM »
Before everyone gets excited, it's a gold "tone", not actual gold plating, I'm sure....whether it would work on the new H&Rs, I also don't know for sure and since there are 4 different hammers that "may" be available, which one fits the the new H&Rs is another question. :?
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Offline knight0334

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2005, 06:18:57 AM »
you would have to burst my bubble..  lol

Thanks for the warning.
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Offline Zeke Menuar

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2005, 08:19:48 AM »
Nikon Buckmaster 4x40 with Weaver high rings on an otherwise stock BC



ZM
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Offline Steelbanger

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2005, 08:44:57 AM »
Well boys, it's been a circus around here today. The mounting holes looked like they were filled with blue Loctite at the factory and then the  sight mounting screws installed. That blue stuff was hard to remove since it was totally hardened, but I succeeded. I mounted a Weaver base, found a set of what I believe are Weaver medium rings and dug out the 12X Leup. That doggone base only has two grooves for ring placement, one forward & one at the rear. Anyway, the scope needed to move backward another 1"or so which wasn't possible because the adjustment turrets were tight against the rear ring. Cannibal time. I dug out another H & R, removed the scope and switched bases with the BC. Now I have a H & R base with many cross grooves on the BC. Remounted the scope, eye relief is just about perfect, and stuck on a hammer extension. I'm boresighted and ready now. Range time later this week.

Thanks again for your input.
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Offline sureshot2040

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2005, 03:41:12 PM »
i had a buff classic barrel fitted to my ultra frame. i call it the "ultra buffalo classic" this gun has cinnamon laminated stocks on it and the monte carlo stock instead of a straight stock. i think that makes the difference in the way it looks with a scope on it
the scope is a simmons 3x9x50 and i used leopold medium rings on mine and it fits perfect. the bottom of the 50mm end is abt an eigth of an inch above the barrel
anyways mine is shooting minute of angle and a tad better so far using both 405 grain and 500 grain bullets
it is very accurate and i love it
its what im gonna be sitting in the woods with come opening morning
 :-D
sureshot
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Offline quickdtoo

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2005, 03:51:46 PM »
Quote from: Steelbanger
The mounting holes looked like they were filled with blue Loctite at the factory and then the  sight mounting screws installed. That blue stuff was hard to remove since it was totally hardened, but I succeeded.


You'll find that a little heat applied to the loctited screws and the mounting holes after you remove the screws, will make the screws and loctite much easier to remove. I use a micro-jet torch that runs on a refillable butane lighter.

http://www.pyrosupplies.com/shop/page/product_detail/Product/dd6bdbe2e29e8522c234a0072c2c4ddd.html
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Offline FirstFreedom

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2005, 05:51:20 PM »
sheer blasphemy, tis.   :lol:
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Offline Steelbanger

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2005, 08:19:06 AM »
The suspense was killing me so I "had" to take the 45-70 to the range today. The bad news is that it doesn't seem to group any better with the 12X and the good news is that it groups the same as the open sights. And I'm sure that long range groups will be improved with the optics added. More on that another time. The biggest difference is the fact that now all I have to do is turn the target elevation knob up and I'm on at 200 yds, whereas with the open sights I had the rear all the way up and still had to hold over to whack our 200 yd ram. And with the scope I can see the bullet holes clearly at 100 yds.
As for appearance, the rifle with the long scope mounted looks pretty darn good to me and I still have a Marlin 1895CB with receiver sights to play around with. With winter a long way off I find myself running out of the 500 gr. Lees so this rifle may go on the back burner for a while.

And a note to Quickdtoo about the loctite. The screws turned out with no resistance since all the loctite was below them, filling up the holes. At first I thought that the holes were really shallow then I noticed it was solid sealant.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005, 02:34:53 PM »
I had the same problem with my 50 cal sidekick last year! I decided to try a red dot mounted forward. I think it was a #75 Weaver base, fit the hole spacing for the rear site perfectly. I am not worried about only one ring, as the Aimpoint only comes with one ring.



 Here is my set up on the 45-70. I REALLY like the Leupold Scopes and rings. These are the better line for the weaver base in MED height. As you can see it works very nicely for clearance.



Here is the gun with the lower profile hammer as Quicktadoo mentioned:



CW
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Offline cwlongshot

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2005, 03:41:09 PM »
Quote from: Steelbanger
That doggone base only has two grooves for ring placement, one forward & one at the rear. Anyway, the scope needed to move backward another 1"or so which wasn't possible because the adjustment turrets were tight against the rear ring. Cannibal time.


NO CANNIBAL!!!! Please!!!!!!
    Do you by chance have a Dremel tool? In the little kit of bits, with the Dremel, there is one that is PERFECT for adding an additional groove to any Weaver base! Its the "burr" thats a hair larger that 1/8". Put the base in a vice, mark the position of the new slot and drop the burr on the base.
 I hold the Dremel securely in both hands. Be careful, it will cut fast, be sure it is square and it will cut a perfect slot. Add a couple if need be. It looks like a professional did it, not some hack with a file!

 Good luck!
 CW
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Offline cheatermk3

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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2005, 04:30:02 PM »
cwlongshot wrote:
"...not some hack with a file..."

Musta seen the one I did...
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Offline Steelbanger

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2005, 11:54:45 PM »
cwlongshot,

The Weaver base I have has a step at the rear. The last one inch is about 1/8" lower than the rest of the base and that's where the new cross-groove would have to be located. And there you have it as to why I didn't cut a new groove.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2005, 01:07:38 AM »
Quote from: Steelbanger
cwlongshot,

The Weaver base I have has a step at the rear. The last one inch is about 1/8" lower than the rest of the base and that's where the new cross-groove would have to be located. And there you have it as to why I didn't cut a new groove.

 WOW, really!   :eek:
What brand of scope is this?? That relief is there for certain scopes adj rings, its not generally needed, sans the Bushnell Trophy scopes.  Even those have generous enough eye relief so that shelf is not the issue. Another option may be to use two rings infront of the turrets. But this sounds like a eye relief thing to me.
Could you post a pic, so I have a better idea of why this is happening?

Good Luck with ot!
CW
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Offline Steelbanger

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2005, 05:41:34 AM »
Here's where it's at right now & this is where it's staying.   http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=324713   Scope is a 12X and clear as spring water and the base is the one H & R supplies with some rifles.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Scoping the 45-70BC
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2005, 12:37:34 PM »
AHH....NOW I see!! Thats is one VERY NICE SETUP!!
SO its not a eye relief thing at all...its just one BIG MOTHER SCOPE!!! That old M8, fixed power line of scopes from Leupold was some of thier best!! That one you have a nice one!

For a time, I used Weavers HIGH offset rings. I would mount them back wards, with the offset in the rear. When the 4X4 ring came out I bought those.
 Then I discovered the Leupold ring, which is what I now use.
Here is a pic of the offsett Weavers I still have on my 17HMR Sporter. It too has a large scope on it. (A 4.5 X14 Nikon)



Here is a close up of the New Leupold MED height ring, with a 2X7 VX II Leupold Mounted on my Ultra 25/06. (My alltime favorite scope)



As you can see, the Leupold is a bit lower, but still allows enough room for not interfer with the hammer.

 Good luck with your new setup!! Post some pics of the groups it will shoot!!!

CW
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