Author Topic: S&W 500 or 454 Casull ,Which is Better ? (Read 9364 times)

WildBill · « **on:** February 27, 2003, 06:42:07 AM »

Say on whitetail deer ,which of these to calibers is better . Is the bigger 500 going to really out do the 454 Casull ? Just want to get some opinions. Of course I just bought a Raging Bull 454 a couple years ago thinking it was the big boy around these parts ,is this just a gun to buy to say I got one bigger? I will probably stick with what I have an let someone else keep up with the Jone's.Besides my wife would use it on me if I spent that much on another toy right now ! Of course the recoil might get both of us!

Questor · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2003, 07:08:40 AM »

Call me a crotchety geezed-out old duffer, but I don't see any reason to use anything heavier than a 44 magnum for whitetails. I'd only go to a 454 if I were specializing in really big hogs and heavier game.

If your heart is set on one of those two calibers, I'd pick the 454 because it's very versatile. You can load light and moderate loads that are very 44-magnum-like and very suitable for whitetails. The advantage is that 454 guns, with shorter barrels like 6" Raging Bull, are relatively light and compact compared to big honkin' monsters like the 500S&W.

The recoil of the 500 is astounding, at least on paper, and it's definitely something I'd want to avoid.

Paul H · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2003, 07:43:28 AM »

I'd stick with the 454, if you can't kill a whitetail, or hog, or elk, or moose with a 454, then the 500 isn't the answer! With the 454, you can actually carry the gun on your hip, and shoot it reasonably well.

The 500 is an answer to a question nobody asked.

You don't see folks trading in their 7mm and 30 cal magnums for 375 Ultramags or 416 Weatherby's for whitetails, same deal with existing handgun hunting rounds and the new 500.

myronman3 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2003, 12:35:29 PM »

red foxy,
if i could get my wife to talk like that i think i would have the perfect woman. i always thought "wouldnt it be nice to meet a woman with interest in handguns and hunting" but didnt think they existed. now only how to figure out how to get some of you to rub off on my wife! NOT LIKELY! but it is nice to know that there is one out there anyway!

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2003, 12:38:22 PM »

I agree with the crotchety geezed-out old duffer. Now I like that handle.

There is absolutely no need for either on deer. Massive over kill on your end even if not on the deer's end. The .44 magnum is still all the gun anyone hunting deer needs. I've shot a truck load of them with it and it has never yet let me down. If I'm gonna be hunting in places where I expect shots to be over 100 yards I usually have something else with me for those shots. Up to that range a revolver is fine and the .44 mag is more than adequate. I've used it on two at about that range. Didn't range them or step them off but know the areas well enough to know it was close to that at least. All the rest have been much closer using it.

So if ya just gotten have a bigger harder kicking toy to play with feel free but don't think when you get it you are doing so from need on deer of any size. The old .44 mag has been used very effectively in the hands of experienced shooters to take every game animal out there most likely to include the very biggest and baddest.

GB

KING · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2003, 04:24:00 PM »

:-D :-D I will have to say that a .44 will do anything that you would want one of the larger calibers to do. The .454 is a nice gun,and I enjoy shooting mine. I will probably get one of the new .500 dragon stompers off of my butt type guns,but,it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay tooooooo big for anything in the whitetail range. I have always figured that if the round blew through both sides, all that extra power got to go someplace else instead of in the animal to add to the shock effect. Im sure that someone will tell ya that a huge slug, on a texas heart shot on a big buck is a good shot to take,but I wont do it. Big guns sometimes do not make for good shots,and some chancy ones to boot,with a crippled deer at the end. Stay safe.....King :roll:

thomas · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2003, 06:36:25 PM »

Just think of the Big Blood trail the 500 will leave.
Hey I think the 454 might be a little more versital than the 44.
If you are a one handgun type of guy a SRH or raging bull in 454 is the gun. As for the question that was asked?
If it is ONLY for deer then the 454 over the 500.
Heck I think you need all three
tom

Zachary · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:47:02 AM »

If you saw a blood trail from one deer shot with a 454 and another similarly sized and shot deer with a .500, I honestly don't think that you could tell the difference.

The 454 IS overkill for whitetails. I have my 454s for the hogs - which can be pretty hard to put down.

Everyone is right about the 44 being big enough, especially for deer. With all the hype in recent years about Ultra Mags, Super Mags, and Sonic Mags, people just seem to forget that the .44 Mag has, and will continue to, harvest a bucket load of deer and hogs.

The reason that I bought my .454s and 480s is that I wanted a cartridge with more authority on a big charging boar. I DO think that the .454 would be better in those situations.

Zachary

chk · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:23:54 AM »

I just read an artical on the S&W 500. I have a Power Port 629 and I know it's enough for deer. The only reason I'd buy a 454 or 500 is for protection from say bears while fishing or some activity that a long gun would be a negative. I believe S&W did some thinking about the 500 since the grip frame is of K/L frame size and round butt so the reach to the trigger is short enough to use a cusion type grip. The advantage a 500 has to me is it operates at a lower chamber pressure so it sould have less or at least less of a quick sharp recoil than a 454. That said,I'd rather have a 12ga with Brenneke mag slugs than any handgun at close quarters with a bear.

thomas · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:01:35 PM »

CHK where did you find the Cup pressures for the 500?
Gary Reeder claims pressures that rival the casull resulting in BRUTAL recoil compared to the casull.
Where did you find your info? I would like to read it as the 500 really interests me as far as a Encore barrel.
Thanks
tom

chk · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2003, 03:26:58 PM »

Shooting Times latest edition has an artical on the S&W 500. The artical states the 500 has 10,000 psi less chamber pressure. I can believe this. If you think about a hydralic jack that has a 1" dia. ram vs. one with a 2" dia. ram,the one with the larger ram will lift more weight with less pressure. A larger dia. bullet needs less chamber pressure to get more power and can have more weight with less pressure too.

thomas · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:21:50 PM »

But that aside and IF they have the pressures right.
Recoil is a factor of bullet weight and powder volume.
No where in the recoil calculators do they ask for pressures.
and with MUCHO more powder and MUCHO more bullet weight No way do i beleive the recoil is even CLOSE. NO way would Reeder say the recoil of the 500 is BRUTAL compared to the 454 without it being somewhat true.
Given the case capacity and bullet weights I would say the 454 I have is a BABY compared to the new round, But then I do not think the 454 recoil is all that bad.
I will be buying this round ONE way or the other.
The whole world is waiting to play with this one.
Now Off to the Super Market I go!
tom

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2003, 07:53:52 PM »

No actually the WHOLE WORLD isn't waiting to buy one.

Only those who've bought into the magazine writer's hype. That's what they get paid the big bucks to do. Sell you every new toy the manufacturers come up with.

It will be short lived likely and will sell far less than the .480 Ruger and even less than the .475 Linebaugh which is for the most part a custom or semi custom proposition.

GB

Buckeye · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2003, 08:46:30 AM »

As a handgun cartridge there both to heavy and stout, for my use. I"d be just as happy with a lighter and yet powerful round that can be used in a med. frame, .41 Mag. :wink:

thomas · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2003, 10:46:00 AM »

Wait one year and bring this up again? I think it will be very interesting to see how well it sells.
We said the same of the 450 marlin. Marlin claims more 450 sales in the last two years over the 45-70.
Yes is is a handgun I know But i think it will be here to stay.
I would say both ruger and Taurus will have a frame to handle it about a year from now year.
tom

HoCoMDHunter · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2003, 04:09:51 PM »

I love the 454 because of the versatility. From a very mild 45 Colt to a full blown 454, there are plenty of loads for any kind of hunting you would ever want to do. Everyone agrees that the 454 is overkill for whitetail, unless you plan on taking one at near 200 yds. The S&W 500 is an answer to a question that no-one asked. Of course, my friends said that the 454 was overkill too, and they were right. A 44 mag or a ruger 45 Colt would be more than sufficient. A 454 or a S&W 500 is kind of like a great sports car. If you want one and can afford it, get it. If you can offer practical justification for one, let us in on your secret.

Jerry · « **Reply #16 on:** March 11, 2003, 07:37:14 AM »

:grin: Ahh, That's the beauty of America, I don't need a practical justification for getting one! I want one and have the money, so I will get one.

Zachary · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:40:20 AM »

In the Shooting article, the author said, if I remember correctly, that after a few shots or so, the muzzle brake fell off. :roll: That doesn't sound like a quality gun to me. Then again, we are talking about a hand cannon.

Still, if I bought one, and I'm not necessarily saying that I would or wouldn't, I would wait for the following reasons:

1. To let them work out all of the "bugs" and other quality control and design issues,
2. Determine whether the gun becomes popular or not. If it doesn't, then I don't want to be stuck with a "book end," a "door stop," or a boat "anchor."

And if I did buy one, it would only be for big mean hogs. (I have seen a 200 pound charging boar hit with 6 shots from a 44 mag and it still kept on charging. Granted, I don't think that it would take that many hits from a .454, but I would think that a 500 would do a more effective job.)

Zachary

S.B. · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2003, 03:05:35 PM »

I don't think your question has any relevancy yet. No one, except the people at Smith and possibly Corbon, has shot any of these, except the prototypes. Give it a year or so and repost your question.

1badmagnum · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2003, 12:25:21 AM »

454 is alot cheaper to shoot(never thought I'd ever say that!)
$3 per round shesh I could buy an armalite ar-50 and shoot cheaper.
buy hey smith fans,step right up and blast away!

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 19, 2003, 05:43:44 AM »

The 454 of course. The 500 is NOT a caliber for a hunting gun. It was designed primarily for gang banger, cop killers. I repeat it I NOT suitable for hunting. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Dave2of5 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 19, 2003, 07:17:55 AM »

Because both are far above what is needed to take deer, I would say that the 500 would be better. After all this question is simply about which is biggest, baddest and best. Because the 500 is bigger - it wins.

MS Hitman · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2003, 07:24:59 AM »

I love my .44s and have killed a bunch of game with them. However, if I were to choose one revolver, it'd be the .454; and it damn sure wouldn't be a Super Redhawk or a BFR.

The .500 just does not do anything for me and I think S&W would have done better spending their effort on bringing back some of the classics as opposed to making a leviathan.

Don Dick · « **Reply #23 on:** October 06, 2003, 10:01:40 AM »

I would never buy a S&W 500, wait a minute whats that in my safe oh well
maybe I did. I never try to rationalize gun purchases I just wanted it so there.............

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 06, 2003, 05:19:35 PM »

I liked the S&W500MAG so much I got 2 of them. A Smith & Wesson and a BFR. Over 500 rounds between both guns and I still love them. I think it is here to stay. Just my humble opinion.

Questor · « **Reply #25 on:** October 07, 2003, 03:52:32 AM »

It just seems to me that it's hard to beat the 44 mag for deer-size game. I never "upgraded" to a more powerful caliber and have no plans to do so.

osceola · « **Reply #26 on:** October 07, 2003, 06:02:51 AM »

Hello MS Hitman. Could you provide some insight into the drawbacks of the SRH and BFR? One can purchase them for roughly 1/2 the price or so(maybe 1/3 on a used one) of a FA83. How about the Taurus RB? I'm looking at getting a new 454 and would greatly appreciate 1st hand experience and knowledge.

TScottO · « **Reply #27 on:** October 07, 2003, 01:50:42 PM »

I know the price of a FA83 seems to be alot of money for a handgun but for the quality of gun you get from FA it's really not. If you're not in a rush to get a 454 I would suggest that you save your pennies a little longer and go with the FA. It's well worth the wait and it's money well spent.

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

MS Hitman · « **Reply #28 on:** October 07, 2003, 05:47:11 PM »

Well osceola,

The SRH I had was crap, pure and simple. By the time I got through putting it in the shop or shipping it back to Ruger trying to get it to function, I could have bought a Model 83 and had some change left over. The SRH my friend, Larry Rogers owns, has such pitiful accuracy now he no longer carries it with him while hunting. I wound up selling mine to a guy that wanted it worse than me. I usually regret selling a firearm; this one I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Lastly, I am beginning to see many used SRHs showing up in the dealer's cases collecting dust.

The BFR is, in my opinion, a knock off of the Rugers and a poor attempt to cash in on the popularity of the Linebaugh and other powerful cartridges. Some posters have claimed to have fine firearms. I just have not seen it in the specimens I have handled.

I agree with Scott, save your pennies and get a FA. Used, you are going to pay a few hundred dollars over what a new BFR cost as best I can remember. However, the money spent on a a FA is money very well spent.

Last but not least, the service I and others have received from Freedom Arms would be very hard to beat. I am not the original owner of either of my .454 Model 83s, yet both were completely reworked on the inside when sent back to the factory for a check-up and installation of micarta grips. All the work done on the inside was warrantied. I fell on my .475 and scratched it while on a hunting trip. The revolver was finished for the cost of shipping! If I call up with a question, I can get Bob Baker or John Carey on the phone and get an answere from them without any hassle. I can not honestly say any of the above regarding Ruger or S&W.

I do not like the new S&W revolver. There have been too many instances of the cylinder rotating backwards under recoil as well as instances of pierced and broken firing pins. Another firend of mine owns a Smith .500 and it locked up on him with the fourth shot. Took some work to get it loose. Smith should be ashamed of themselves for charging as much as they do for a revolver that is still being tested and debugged.

Anyway, you asked and there it is. My opinion based on my experience.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 08, 2003, 01:09:41 AM »

I had the Super Redhawk in 454 Casull and shot well over 1000 rounds without any problems at all. I sold it to a friend when I got my BFR in 500MAG. The BFR is a great gun. I know several people that have them and they nothing but good things. I have a Redhawk in 44 MAG with more rounds that I can imagine and it works flawless. I have never had to send any of my guns to be fix. And I shoot the He*L out of them. My Smith in the 500MAG has not had any problems with full loads with 440 gr. bullets. As far as the Freedom Arms goes, yes it is a fine gun, very nice looking and well built. But a Ruger in 454 or a BFR will do the same thing. I am not shy to spend a lot of money on a good gun, but Ruger and BFR are hard to beat.