Sight in help/question...

[bigbore442001]

Gentlemen( and ladies if you are there)

I am in a quandry. The club's rifle range has been voluntarily shut down due to a house being hit by a stray round( very suspicious circumstances i..e a 45 ACP hitting the side of a house, goingthrough two wall at 2 1/4 miles away)

Anyways. I have my 375 JDJ and it isn't properly sighted in> I would like to sight it in at 100 yards and then I can practice. But it looks like I will have to sight it in at a very close range. What I mean by that is, I can sight it in at say 25 to 30 yards, but there isn't a place I can go sight it in at a longer distance. I seem to remember reading that you can sight a rifle( the 375 JDJ is in my opinion in this catagory) at a short range and it will be dead on at 100 yards.

Can anyone give me some ideas? Thank you.

[Redhawk1]

It will not work. If you are sighting in at 25 or 30 yards and that all you are going to shoot. But if you try a 100 yard shot after getting sighted in at only 25 or 30 yards, there is not telling where you will be at 100 yards. The only way to sight in at 100 yards is to shoot at 100 yards.  

[Steve P]

Why are you sighting it in?  Have a trip planned?
My friends and I always sight in our deer rifles a couple of weeks prior to season.  Check loads, reloads, rifle function, etc.  Good to clean out the cob webs (if you know what I mean   )
I always shoot my gun again on the way to my hunting spot.  After turning off the main roads, I find a spot and blast a soda can or two, off hand, out to about 100-150 yards.  Just want to make sure, again, that my gun is ready for opening morning.  

Leave a little early.  Find state, federal, or blm land to blast a few rounds a few miles before getting to your hunting spot.

Steve  

[skb2706]

"45 ACP hitting the side of a house, goingthrough two wall at 2 1/4 miles away) "

Now theres a hot load..........I 'm still stuck in the quandary of how that happened.

That by the way is not suspicious...its a lie. Didn't happen...at least not that way.

If you can't sight in at 100 yds. then you are saying you would not get a shot that far anyway....like Steve p said.....whats the point ? Sight it in for the longest shot you will get.

[BCB]

bigbore442001,

Sure you can sight your handgun in at 25 yards--why not?  There are several ballistic programs available on the Net.  I am not sure of the web address, but they are out there.  If you know your velocity and bullet BC you can have the program calculate a 100 yard zero and it will show you impact points at various ranges--25 yards included.  Sight so bullet impact is at 25 yards is as indicated in the program.  Now then, it might not be a perfect 100 yard zero, but it will be dang close.  Good-luck...BCB

[Redhawk1]

bigbore442001,

Sure you can sight your handgun in at 25 yards--why not?  There are several ballistic programs available on the Net.  I am not sure of the web address, but they are out there.  If you know your velocity and bullet BC you can have the program calculate a 100 yard zero and it will show you impact points at various ranges--25 yards included.  Sight so bullet impact is at 25 yards is as indicated in the program.  Now then, it might not be a perfect 100 yard zero, but it will be dang close.  Good-luck...BCB

So wrong. Once your gun is sighted in at 100 yards you will have two areas where the bullet crosses the same point of impact. Where it is still rising and them coming back down.

I hear of so many people that think that what you said is correct, but it is not. In order to do a 100 yards sight in you MUST shoot 100 yards.
No matter what distance you shoot at, it is your job to shoot at that distance to make sure your gun will be where it needs to be. I limit myself to 300 yards, and I shoot to 300 yards, I know at 100, 200 and 300 yards where my bullet is.

Why are you sighting it in? Have a trip planned?
My friends and I always sight in our deer rifles a couple of weeks prior to season. Check loads, reloads, rifle function, etc. Good to clean out the cob webs (if you know what I mean  )
I always shoot my gun again on the way to my hunting spot. After turning off the main roads, I find a spot and blast a soda can or two, off hand, out to about 100-150 yards. Just want to make sure, again, that my gun is ready for opening morning.

Leave a little early. Find state, federal, or blm land to blast a few rounds a few miles before getting to your hunting spot.

Steve

I have all my guns sighted in early, matter of fact, if I get a new gun and scope I go to the range and get it sighted in. I shot my guns year around, not just prior to hunting. I don't understand why you question why he wants to sight in his gun now.  :?

[bigbore442001]

Where I will be hunting, about 275 miles north of me, I can get shots out to 200 yards in  clear cuts. Here in my home area, the shots are pretty much limited to 50 yards or less due to the foliage and brush. This is all due to what I see as a planned accident to shut our rifle range down. If it were open, I'd be shooting at 150 yards.

The whole deal stinks and many club members are angry that hunting season is a month or so away and cannot practice.

I just got this barrel and I expected to get it in sooner than now. It was rechambered and took longer than expected.

[Redhawk1]

Where I will be hunting, about 275 miles north of me, I can get shots out to 200 yards in  clear cuts. Here in my home area, the shots are pretty much limited to 50 yards or less due to the foliage and brush. This is all due to what I see as a planned accident to shut our rifle range down. If it were open, I'd be shooting at 150 yards.

The whole deal stinks and many club members are angry that hunting season is a month or so away and cannot practice.

I just got this barrel and I expected to get it in sooner than now. It was rechambered and took longer than expected.

I don't know the area you live,but is there a farmer or land owner that you know that will let you use there land, or is there another range you can go to further away?  That does suck, I have several places to shoot and I am always looking for new places.  

[bigbore442001]

Redhawk, You gave me an excellent idea. I know of a farmer with a cornfield that I may be able to just sight in the gun. Set up a  bench on the tailgate and see what I can do.

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk, You gave me an excellent idea. I know of a farmer with a cornfield that I may be able to just sight in the gun. Set up a  bench on the tailgate and see what I can do.

I offer my services to the farmers in my area. Do some odds and ends in return for the privilege. One thing I also do is make sure I leave the area better then how I found it. I take a garbage bad with me and clean the area I get permission to use. The farmers appreciate that. Good luck in finding a spot to shoot.  

[BCB]

Well, now that is interesting…Let’s pretend I sight my rifle/handgun in at 100 yards and then I shoot it at 25 yards.  I get an impact point.  Now then let’s suppose I change the settings on the ‘scope “just for something to do”.  Well, since I know where the impact point at 25 yards was for a 100 yard zero, I can just adjust the ‘scope to allow for that same impact point at 25 yards.  It will be zeroed again at 100 yards. This is assuming the same ‘scope, height above bore line, and reload (velocity).  Besides, if the data is plugged into a ballistic program for a 100 yard zero, the program shows points of impact at various ranges out to and past the zero range.  Sure I know the bullet crosses line of sight 2 times as it travels, unless it collides with something between these two points.  It doesn’t matter whether the 100 yard impact is the bullet dropping or the bullet still climbing as long as 100 yards is the zero.  I have used ballistic programs to just get a bullet on the paper at 100 yards using the 25 yard impact point.  It sure as hell will work…BCB

[Keith L]

You can also use a bore sight to determine where in the grid a 100 yard zero is and check your rifle to see to it that it is close.  My Leupold came with a pattern to use, making copies for each gun.  After sighting in use the bore sight and see where the cross hairs are on the grid.  mark that on the sheet and you have a place to start when testing.

The important thing is all these methods are a place to start.  There is no replacement for shooting.  If I can't shoot lots going into hunting season I won't hunt.  I need to know where the bullet is going.  I won't have that confidence unless i have been shooting.

There are a fair number of folks in the woods during deer season that haven't shot for years.  And some shoot and if the gun goes bang they are happy.  And there are a fair number of deer that die and are not found by the sloppy hunters that gut shoot them and can't find them.  I have enough faults without taking this one up as well.

[KYODE]

BCB .... :agree:

except.........a bullet NEVER rises. when it leaves the barrel it is immediately dropping, and will continue to drop. the force of gravity rules.
the bullet crosses yer line of sight(thru yer optics).......but never rises.

if you know your 25 yard impact and 100 yard impact EXCATLY, there is no reason you can't sight in at 25 yards. your margin of error will be greater doing so........so you SHOULD double check at other ranges. if your shots are not long range.....sighting at 25 yards would do ok.

a tad low....1/4"-1/2" er so low at 25yds will put ya in the ballpark at 100. i like sighting in 1 1/2" er so high at 100 with rifle calibers in rifles or handguns......or the same at 50 yds with straightwall pistol cartridges, muzzle loaders etc.

[BCB]

KYODE,

You are correct in that a bullet never rises by itself.  It can be accelerated to rise above the line of sight by using the angle of the barrel.  So, the bullet does rise, but because the barrel is angled above level.  Did I say that correctly!!!!!!!!!!!

But you are correct, the bullet begins to feel the effects of gravity the minute it exits the barrel.  Yet, I am still amazed at the fact that some people actually think the bullets exits the barrel and "climbs" due to the spin caused by the rifling!!!  And so it goes...BCB

[Steve P]

Hey, let it go.   I am saving lots of money here!!   :eek:

Per BCB, I dont have to shoot beyond 25 yards any more.  I can let all those 100s of dollars in ballistics programs, manuals, and charts I have handle everything for me.  No more excess shooting... :lol:

Per Redhawk, If I shoot at 300 yards, I know where my bullet will be at 100 and 200 also.  So saving more here again!!  

Oh, Redhawk, I can't ask why he is sighting in his gun?  Can't ask more important questions to confirm he gets the correct answer to his question?
 :roll:

Sheesh....lets get antagonistic and start fights rather than help the guy out!!   :twisted:


Big Bore 442001 Thanks for the reply.  Congrats on getting the new re-chamber.  Sorry for the probs at your club.  

If you can shoot your gun out to 50 yards at the club, that will be a good spot to get it sighted in on paper.  Get a good zero maybe half to inch high.  Once you are comfortable there, then go ask your buddy about a few longer shots in the cornfield.  Don't want to alarm him or the neighbors with a bunch of shots as you narrow your aim point where you want it.    Once you head up to your hunting spot, stop a few miles out and try a longer shot or two at longer distance.  Lets you know more how it will hit in case you do get a longer shot on your hunt.

Good luck with the new barrel.  Hope it helps fill the freezer.

Steve  

[Steve P]

Now that Big Bore has a plan to help him, time to help out some others.

Ballistics and firearms 101....NO gun is perfect.   NO sights are perfect.  No scope is perfect.   If they were, we wouldn't have to sight in and wouldn't have to worry about missing.  They would all hit,  all the time.  Sights have adjustment up and down, side to side.  Target scopes have target turrets for up and down and side to side.

It does not matter what price you pay for gun, scope, mounts, sights, etc.
If you shoot center at 25 yards, it will likely not hit perfectly between 12 and 6 on your bullseye at 100.  The bullet will likely hit left or right of center.  Out to 200 yards, this error will be magnified.  Out to 300, magnified even further.  But, it could be left at 200 and right at 300!!

So no matter how careful you are at 100 yards, even a half inch group, you are NOT guaranteed anything at 200.  You can surmise and even bet on how close it will be, but no guarantee.  And, of course, you have to shoot it to find out.  

Several cases in point:

 I have a Bullberry 22 barrel.  Will shoot 10 shots into about 1/4" group at 50 yards.  At 100, same ammo, shoots about 5" group.  Hmmmm.  Ammo goes all over the place past about 80 yards.

I have a buddy with a 280 Remington rifle that he built.  No matter how hard he tried, could not find a hand load that would give consistent sub inch groups at 100 yards.  With the load he finally settled on, I spotted him sighting in.  Half inch group of 3 shots at 200 yards.  About 1.5" at 100.  This year he shot by himself.  5 shots into about 1.75 inches at 100 and 3 shots in .75 at 200.  

I shoot silhouette in WA state.  In the winter it is kind of neat to watch the cast bullets because they leave a 'jet stream' or similar as they pass thru the rain.  This is not always an arc, but in some guns actually a spiral effect.

If you don't shoot your gun and hunting ammo at the intended range, you can only guess or extrapolate a hypothetical impact point.  In a perfect world, you can get close.  Then throw in the weather, humidity, etc and guess again.


So...go shoot your gun, have fun.
If you want to know where it might hit at 100, you have to shoot it at 100.
If you want to know where it might hit at 200, you have to shoot it at 200.
If you want to know where it might hit at 300, you have to shoot it at 300.
etc etc etc.

If you can prove me wrong, please do....I would love to go out and win one of my long distance shooting competitions due to new information.

Have a great day.

Steve  

[Redhawk1]

Hey, let it go.   I am saving lots of money here!!   :eek:

Per BCB, I dont have to shoot beyond 25 yards any more.  I can let all those 100s of dollars in ballistics programs, manuals, and charts I have handle everything for me.  No more excess shooting... :lol:

Per Redhawk, If I shoot at 300 yards, I know where my bullet will be at 100 and 200 also.  So saving more here again!!  

Oh, Redhawk, I can't ask why he is sighting in his gun?  Can't ask more important questions to confirm he gets the correct answer to his question?
 :roll:

Sheesh....lets get antagonistic and start fights rather than help the guy out!!   :twisted:


Big Bore 442001 Thanks for the reply.  Congrats on getting the new re-chamber.  Sorry for the probs at your club.  

If you can shoot your gun out to 50 yards at the club, that will be a good spot to get it sighted in on paper.  Get a good zero maybe half to inch high.  Once you are comfortable there, then go ask your buddy about a few longer shots in the cornfield.  Don't want to alarm him or the neighbors with a bunch of shots as you narrow your aim point where you want it.    Once you head up to your hunting spot, stop a few miles out and try a longer shot or two at longer distance.  Lets you know more how it will hit in case you do get a longer shot on your hunt.

Good luck with the new barrel.  Hope it helps fill the freezer.

Steve  

Steve to address your questions to me. I was confused as to why you were asking him why he was sighting in his gun. My guess was, because he wanted to sight in his gun, he did not need to wait to go hunting to sight it in. That was and is my confusion on your post.

Second. When I was pointing out that I sight my gun in at 300 yards and know where my gun hits at 100 and 200 yards is because I also shoot at that range. So therefor I know where I am at, at the ranges I stated. You are just reading into my posts and trying to pick them apart and make them read the way you want them to.

It is not rocked science here. I don't care what anyone says. If you sight you gun in at 25 yards, it does not mean you will even be on paper at 100 yards.  But the reverse it true. Once you have a 100 yard sight in, if you shoot at 25 yards you will be very close to the 100 yard point of impact.  But if you say it works for you, more power to ya.  

KYODE and BCB, I know a bullet drops from the time it leaves the barrel, the rise I was talking about is when you point your barrel down range, there is 2 points that the bullet crosses the path as your line of sight. So I did not think that a bullet raised as it came out of the barrel.  

[Steve P]

"It is not rocked science here. I don't care what anyone says. If you sight you gun in at 25 yards, it does not mean you will even be on paper at 100 yards. But the reverse it true. Once you have a 100 yard sight in, if you shoot at 25 yards you will be very close to the 100 yard point of impact. But if you say it works for you, more power to ya.  "


Redhawk, thanks for your reply.  I was reading what was on the computer screen.  We can always read the words but can never read the body language nor interpret the intent.

In your quote above, I can give you two cases in point where it wont work.  The Winchester model 94 with sidesaddle scope mount and a TC Contender with high rise scope mount.  Once sighted in at 100, you will not have a good impact on 25 yard target.    You have to shoot both of them at 25 yards and at 100 yards.  You will have to change sight settings to zero your point of impact to a certain spot.

Keep shooting and keep knowing where they will hit.

Steve  

[KYODE]

no intelligence doubt intended redhawk1.
i was just unclear on your post. :wink:
 if nuthin else.....other young readers etc may understand that a bullet does drop imediately after leavin the barrel.

[BCB]

Steve P.

If you read my posts, I believe I indicated that the impact point at 25 yards must be known in relation to the 100 yard zero.  This can be found by using a ballistics program that is readily available on the Internet.  I did not imply that zeroing on the point of aim at 25 yards would allow for a hit on a target at 100 yards.  It is zeroing on the impact point at 25 yards relative to the 100 yard zero that is what counts.  I also understand that one could be vertically centered on the 25 yard impact zero and not be vertically centered at 100 yards.  There are many reasons for this including a ‘scope that is not mounted exactly centered to line of flight of the bullet or centered with the bore.  This will cause the bullet to cross the line of sight horizontally and possible vertically also, depending on velocity and zero of bullet path.
It is also true that the bullet may need to strike low to point of aim at 25 yards or dead on at 25 yards or high at 25 yards to get a 100 yard zero.  It all depends on the velocity and the height of the ‘scope above the bore.  My 270 is a bit over ½” low of point of aim at 25 yards for a 100 yard zero.  My 44 Magnum is approximately 1.4” high of point of aim at 25 yards for a 100 yard zero.  We may be getting mixed up by saying a 25 yard zero.  It isn’t a 25 yard zero, only in certain instances will it be an exact point of aim impact at 25 yards.
I am not certain that I understand your statement that is in red.  Where will impact point be at 25 yards with a 100 yard zero?  It will be different with different velocities and ‘scope mounts or open sights.
And finally, let’s say that I have my 270 shooting a 140 grainer at 2800 fps.  Now then, I just plugged this data into a ballistic program and it indicates that for a 100 yard zero, my bullet must impact 0.69” low to aim point at 25 yards.  So if I sight my rifle in to be 0.69” low to point of aim at 25 yards, are you saying it won’t have a 100 yard zero—or dang close?  The path of a bullet is predictable, thus ballistics programs, and knowing this path can allow for determining a zero at any distance by shooting at a lesser distance.  Sure there will be some minor error, but it sure will put one in the kill zone in most cases.  Many rifles have the rear sight that can be used to correct for distance.  The rifle is zeroed to a know distance and the sight is adjusted according to the greater distances—the military has used this for years…BCB

[Redhawk1]

"It is not rocked science here. I don't care what anyone says. If you sight you gun in at 25 yards, it does not mean you will even be on paper at 100 yards. But the reverse it true. Once you have a 100 yard sight in, if you shoot at 25 yards you will be very close to the 100 yard point of impact. But if you say it works for you, more power to ya.  "


Redhawk, thanks for your reply.  I was reading what was on the computer screen.  We can always read the words but can never read the body language nor interpret the intent.

In your quote above, I can give you two cases in point where it wont work.  The Winchester model 94 with sidesaddle scope mount and a TC Contender with high rise scope mount.  Once sighted in at 100, you will not have a good impact on 25 yard target.    You have to shoot both of them at 25 yards and at 100 yards.  You will have to change sight settings to zero your point of impact to a certain spot.

Keep shooting and keep knowing where they will hit.

Steve  

You are so correct in the body language or even the emotions on a computer. I see where you are coming from with your examples.

The reason I said that was, I know so many guys that go out and sight in there guns at 25 yards. Then they shoot at 100 yards and don't hit paper.  Some get lucky and hit the targe and then make adjustments. I have sighted in so many guns I think I could do it in my sleep by now.  

[Redhawk1]

no intelligence doubt intended redhawk1.
i was just unclear on your post. :wink:
 if nuthin else.....other young readers etc may understand that a bullet does drop imediately after leavin the barrel.

I just did not want you to think I was a mental midget.  :-D  :-D  

[Steve P]

"And finally, let’s say that I have my 270 shooting a 140 grainer at 2800 fps. Now then, I just plugged this data into a ballistic program and it indicates that for a 100 yard zero, my bullet must impact 0.69” low to aim point at 25 yards. So if I sight my rifle in to be 0.69” low to point of aim at 25 yards, are you saying it won’t have a 100 yard zero—or dang close? The path of a bullet is predictable, thus ballistics programs, and knowing this path can allow for determining a zero at any distance by shooting at a lesser distance. Sure there will be some minor error, but it sure will put one in the kill zone in most cases. Many rifles have the rear sight that can be used to correct for distance. The rifle is zeroed to a know distance and the sight is adjusted according to the greater distances—the military has used this for years…"

According to the book, your rifle will have a 100 yard zero.  You have to shoot it at 100 yards to find out.  You may be high, low, left, right, etc.  The book may say you are pushing 2800 fps.  Only a chrono will tell you for sure, at the distance you measure it.  Everything is hypothetical and if you don't learn more for your particular gun and ammo, you are doing yourself and your game animal a disservice.
The path of a bullet is NOT predictable.  The path of a bullet is hypothetical at best.  My case on the bullberry 22 barrel is excellent example.  If that barrel shoots 1/4 groups at 50 yard, it should shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards, right.  Or 1" groups at 200?  My buddies 280 goes from 1.5" at 100 to .5 at 200.  Shouldnt it shoot one hole at 300?
You are correct in your last statement.  You zero a rifle to a given distance and then adjust your sight according to distance.  You may even hit what you are shooting at.  The older military rifles had adjustable sights on them.  These sights were calibrated for the action, barrel length and specific load being shot.  If the military changed their load, they also changed the sight.  
My advise to you is this:  take your 270 load, chrono it, and confirm the velocity.  Grab your book, and note where the book says you should hit for your given velocity and bullet weight.  Go out and shoot your gun at 50 yards.  Write down where the book says you are hypothetically going to hit, write down where you actually hit, and write down the sight adjustments needed to hit where you actually want to hit.  Keep these sight settings!  Repeat this for 100, 200, and even 300 yards.

Now you have data 50, 100, 200, 300 yards:
1. You have hypothetical impact point from your book.
2. You have actual impact points from hitting the target.
3. You have sight settings on hitting where you actually want to hit.

Now compare the data.  1 and 2 are not the same.  You don't need them anyway.

Take #3.  This is where your gun, load, and sights need to be adjusted to hit the target where you actually want to hit.  This is the important stuff.  The rest is just stuff.

Steve  

[Redhawk1]

The best thing still in my opinion is to shoot at the distances you intend to shoot while hunting.  

[Keith L]

The best thing still in my opinion is to shoot at the distances you intend to shoot while hunting.  

Nothing beats that!

[BCB]

This has been an interesting discussion.  We all have opinions and so it goes…
Forty-two years ago, I became of age to hunt and I honestly worked an entire summer to purchase a new Model 70 Winchester in the 270 Winchester cartridge—I still have that rifle and it shows minimal wear and tear though it has served its purpose well.  I remember reading all the gun magazines I could scrounge from my relatives and the 25-yard shoot in was discussed in at least one article.  I distinctly remember it because of limited areas to shoot a rifle for a good zero where my parents lived.  We had an old abandoned surface mine site near by and I could shoot about 40 yards at this location.  The side of an aspen tree was my leaning rest.  The ‘scope was a Western Field (?) model that cost less than 20 bucks, I think.  Regardless, I was able to shoot at the short distances in an effort to acquire some type of zero at or near 100 yards and during the hunting season when visibility was better due to the leaves falling from the trees, some longer shots were made.  The gun rags indicated that rifles of the velocity or near the velocity of the 270 could be sighted to be about ½” low at 25 yards and be acceptable for 100 yard shots.  Funds were certainly limited and a box of factory ammo lasted a couple of seasons.  It took only a few shots to attain enough accuracy to be confident on longer shoots.  I made due with what I had to work with.  And in my entire career of hunting, I have never made an inhumane kill on any animal, and I have certainly taken my share of deer here in Western PA.
I now own my own shooting range and I have 400 yard capabilities at my range.  I have a small pavilion built and a very solid table to shoot from in the shelter.  All my equipment necessary to shoot stays there as it is out of the weather.  Steel pendulums are located at various ranges and are movable so distances can be adjusted.  Thousands of dollars worth of reloading equipment remains at my residence, and yes, I have a couple of chronographs so I know the velocity of my reloads.  I have been reloaded ammo for almost as long as I have been hunting.  It would be difficult to know exactly how many rounds are launched downrange every year, but it is many for sure.  Almost exclusively cast bullets these days.  I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in 44 Magnum.  It is zeroed at 75 yards with 429650’s (about 315 grains).  Velocities are well known, and my ballistic programs predict points of impact at whatever range I kindly or unkindly ask it to calculate.  I can honestly rattle a groundhog sized piece of steel at 250 yards simply by reading the ballistic printout.  Holdover is known by points located behind the steel.  I have never zeroed this handgun at a distance greater than 75 yards yet I can shoot 250 yards with it. It remains my opinion that the distance of know impact points can even be closer than the 75 yards and still calculate hit points at greater distances. The same is true for several Contenders that I shoot at longer distances.  Whether the laws of physics are predictable, maybe I don’t know, although I certainly thought I did know.  I do know that the part that isn’t predictable is the shooter.  Therein exists the problem that can occur.  And so it goes…BCB

[Steve P]

BCB if you can hit gongs at 275 with that redhawk, then you need to go out to a silhouette match and knock down some 200 meters rams.  Once you see them fall, you will be hooked.  50 meter chickens, 100 meter pigs, 150 meter turkeys, and the 200 meter rams.  You will want to keep a record of your sight settings.  Once hooked you will want to go to different ranges to shoot and the sight settings can be different.  

My silhouette book is full of sight settings and it is suprising to see how much you have to change the sights depending on weather, lighting, direction of sun, target color, temperature, etc.  It's great fun.

Shoot straight.  I have a deer hunt coming up.  Have some partitions to load.

Steve