Author Topic: Bad experience at a local gun store today...  (Read 2720 times)

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Offline Atomic Chicken

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Bad experience at a local gun store today...
« on: September 20, 2005, 11:41:29 PM »
Greetings!

Something happened today while browsing at a local gun shop.  I've been in the place probably 30 or 40 times in the last 2 years, and I've always had helpful, friendly service from several of the knowlegeable salespeople they have working for them.  Today, I walked up to the counter and asked a salesman I hadn't seen before if I could examine a Sig P239 (.40S&W) and a Glock model 23 side by side.  He was kind of surly, asking me why I would want to see both of them at the same time and "why couldn't I just look at them one at a time".  I told him I wanted to compare size, weight, and balance because I had left my own Glock 23 at home.  He gave me a scowling look, then placed both on the counter in front of me.

It got worse.  Being unfamiliar with the P239 mechanism, I asked him how to field strip it.  He replied VERY tersely with obvious annoyance that he "didn't know about" Sig handguns, and "why was that important anyway?".  I said that I would like to see the inner mechanism of both guns side-by-side, particularly the unlock mechanism of the barrel-to-slide interface.  He got more annoyed, and told me to not use words he didn't understand - what was I, a "university guy" or something?.  I think he was referring to the word "interface" - not that it really matters... this just ISN'T the sort of thing you say to a potential customer if you want to make a sale!

At this point, I'd had just about enough of this jack@$$, and told him I would figure out how to strip the Sig myself.  I first grabbed the Glock and in about 3 Sec. had the thing into 4 pieces+the magazine, set down on the table next to the Sig, and reached for the Sig to attempt the same.  Before I even had the Sig magazine released, the guy literally YELLED at me to "not take the guns apart" drawing attention from everyone in the store, then rapidly started walking toward another employee (I assume he was the manager or someone higher-up than this idiot) at the far end of the counter (about 40 feet away).  He was huffing and literally red in the face, I thought he was going to have a heart attack before he reached the other worker!

I spent the next 5 seconds or so re-assembling the Glock, set it down on the counter next to the Sig, and walked over to the pair of them (both of whom had started walking toward me) and before anyone could say a word I politely addressed the (supposed) manager saying that both pistols were fully assembled, his employee should be working in a McDonalds intead of a gun store, and that I would be taking my future firearms business elsewhere.  The both looked at me with open mouths, as I walked out of the store.

What do you all think?  Was I out of line in any way?  I've replayed the incident in my mind a few times this evening, and can't quite grasp how examining a pistol and field-stripping/reassembling it would offend any gun store owner with a thousandth of a brain... or cause anyone working at a gun store any anxiety at all.  I've routinely stripped pistols and examined the bores, checked for tightness of parts, fit and finish, and signs of wear MANY times in the past with not even a raised eyebrow... did I just hit the "jerk jackpot" today?

Enough... I'm going to bed. :(

Best wishes,
Bawko
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Offline jhm

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2005, 02:41:00 AM »
No you didnt hit the salesperson any different than anyone else who didnt know you or your ability, as you stated in the beginning of the post you didnt know him, but having owned 2 gunshops I have dealt with several customers whos point of looking at firearms and examining them wanted to take them apart to impress staff and to prove to themselves that they could, so it was my policy to NOT allow any customer to take any weapon apart unless it was PAID IN FULL,  I am sure it has cost me a few sales and probably a few more lookers but it hasnt led to any lost parts and damaged guns from someone who wanted to take them apart, you did the correct thing by telling them you would go elsewhere, it probably will make both parties involved a little bit better off. :D    JIM

Offline Redhawk1

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2005, 04:19:46 AM »
Thew sales person we indeed rude. But in the same token, all the gun shops I have been to will not let you disassemble any guns. It is the stores policy. personally I would of asked for another person that could help me better. But then again I go to the same gun shops I have been going to for 14 years ands never had that problem.  :D
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Offline Questor

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2005, 04:39:30 AM »
I agree that the disassembly, if allowed, will be done by the clerk and not the potential customer. It also depends on the clerk. Some have particular facility with a brand of gun and can readily demonstrate the disassembly if no tools are required. Otherwise, they're not likely to know much about the details of disassembly.

The only time I've asked for such a demonstration was after I bought and paid for my first 1911.  The guy that sold it to me was very facile with the 1911 and showed me how to take the slide off and replace it. That was good enough for me.

I can't believe that the gun business attracts any but a certain kind of person.  The guys I know that have been at it for a long time all just like the trade and they stick with it because they like guns, shooting, hunting, and gun people.   Anyone else just doesn't last long (probably because there's not a great deal of money to be made.)
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Offline NONYA

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2005, 05:09:49 AM »
Maybe you should have asked permission before you started tearing down somebody elses firearms?You assumed they didnt mind and then you were offended when you relized you were wrong,how did they know you knew what you were doing?if you were selling a car would you mind if someone yanked the motor in your driveway to see how the cylinder walls looked when you have no idea if they are even interested or just window shopping?
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline unspellable

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two sides to this issue
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2005, 08:01:14 AM »
There are two sides to this issue.  One the one hand, the seller may not know if you know how to take it apart and put it back together.  They ma ywish t oavoid shop wear marks, nicks, cylinderr ings, etc.  I've also had dealers I know tell me they've had people take a gun apart, reassemble it incorrectly and then tell them it fdid't work.

On the other hand, I am hesitant to buy a gun with out taking it apart, turning the cylinder, etc.  I've been bitten more than once by buying a gun with out giving it a really through examination.  New as well as used.

But in either case, there's no need for rude behaviour.

Offline Dusty Miller

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2005, 09:20:31 AM »
Yeah, you shudda gotten permission before you took the gun apart but this guy is a bozo just the same and should not be dealing with the public.  Some people are socially sophiticated enough to shovel horse manure and some are sophisticated enough to deal with the buying public.  Maybe the store management will learn to tell the difference before they hire their next sales person.
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Offline Savage

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2005, 11:21:45 AM »
I think Jim pretty well summed it up. I would not alow anyone I didn't know to  disassemble one of my guns, nor would I expect to do so with someone else's without their consent. The potential for damage and/or missing parts is too great.
Savage
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Offline Chris

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2005, 03:17:06 PM »
Take you business elsewhere.  You were field stripping a handgun in a store in the presence of an employee...not tearing a motor down in a car lot.  Maybe you should have known better...maybe not.  Here's what I tell my guys..."The customer may not always be right...but he is always the customer!"  

All the guy had to say was "Sir, our store policy is that we can't allow patrons to disassemble the handguns.  Allow me get someone to help answer you questions and show you how the gun comes apart."  Problem averted.

BTW, the store wasn't located in No Cal was it?

...Chris   :D
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Offline jhm

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2005, 03:36:14 PM »
I dont think he gave the store employe a chanch, as he states in about 3 seconds he had the glock torn apart, comone fellows who owns a business where they allow the customers to just start taking apart the items to see if they might be interested in them, as hunting season is coming upon us most gunshops have to hire extra help during the rush season just like any other business, but I think it was a in-experienced employe being taken advantage of, as stated had been in the store 30 to 40 times before, it isnt always the guy behind the counter trying to help a customer who is in the wrong, and one gun on the counter at a time is a good practice also especially with a new employe.   JIM

Offline myronman3

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2005, 03:43:23 PM »
if for any reason i aint happy,  i take my business elsewhere.

Offline Atomic Chicken

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2005, 04:17:58 PM »
Greetings!

I've read the replies to this thread with a lot of interest, rolling things around in my head to try and make all the opinions and ideas fit with what I experienced yesterday...

I just need to say one thing to the guys who are saying that I "should have asked permission" and "didn't give the employee a chance", and that I somehow just tore into the disassembly without warning.

From the moment the two guns were on the table, after briefly comparing sizes and weights, etc. it was my CLEARLY STATED INTENTION to compare the innards of the two pistols side by side, something the employee KNEW I was trying to do... as I asked him questions about field stripping the Sig and comparing the slide interface, etc. etc. bloody etc.

Here's how I see it:

If this JERK (and that is DEFINITELY what the guy was!) had been the least bit responsive to what the customer (me) was asking him about instead of taking issue with "why would you want to do that" or "what does that matter" or "stop using words I don't understand... what are you - some kind of university guy!" then he would have clearly understood what I was after or at least said "hold on a minute while I get someone to help you".

As it was, I figured we had been bantering back and forth about why I would want to compare the two disassembled for enough sentences that it was clear to him what I was after... and maybe more conversation needed to happen, but HELL.... maybe the guy should have found someone else to help me if he was having such a hard time dealing with the situation and couldn't articulate a "you can't take them apart" if that is what he was thinking.

Maybe (probably) the guy was overworked, tired, not his normal department/WHATEVER..... but that is NO EXCUSE for him to treat me as rudely as he did, then make NO indication that I could not proceed with what I had been telling him was my intention all along.  Instead I got a very terse conversation containing a bunch of rude semantics and a level of ignorance I haven't experienced in years.

I have bought a lot of firearms in my life, and a lot of non-firearms related items too.  I have NEVER been treated so rudely, in such a short period of time, with so little apparent provocation by a retailer in my ENTIRE LIFE!!!!  From the moment I asked to see the two pistols, it seemed like the guy took on a "put upon" and "why do I have to" attitude... then proceeded to take it out on me in as obvious a way as possible, sparing me no doubt as to his overall annoyance at having to (a) deal with a customer, or (b) actually do his job, or (c) be alive on this planet.

OK... glad I'm done venting about that... I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't a case of me just randomly grabbing a few guns and tearing into them without saying a word or clearly stating my intention... quite contrary, it was a case of clearly stating the intent, getting a bunch of nonsense BS as a reply with no indication that I could NOT proceed as I had suggested I was going to... then getting yelled at in front of a store full of other customers!!!

Enough... reliving it again is making me angry all over again... but I felt I had to in order to clarify what may have been misunderstood from my first post, and let you all know that I did everything I thought appropriate and polite in informing this "gentleman" as to my intended disassembly, for what little good it did me.

Best wishes,
Bawko
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Offline myronman3

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2005, 05:22:15 PM »
when i am in a sports store,  and someone comes up to me and asks if i need a hand, i smile, and then state in a booming voice (still smiling and friendly)  i am looking for     "......."(fill in the blank).   and then, before they can respond,  i also state that if they dont know their bananas about "......." go get me someone who does,  cause if you try bull$#!*** me, am going to eat you alive.  (still smiling).  

the ones that dont know,  chicken out instantly.  the ones that do,  smile right back and help you.   i always make it a point to talk with the manager when someone has been helpful to compliment them.   with all the know-nothings out there,  it sure makes you appreciate the few that have a clue.  

my wife and friends think it is a hoot.

Offline Dusty Miller

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2005, 09:13:11 PM »
Myron, what was THAT all about? :?
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Offline NONYA

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2005, 03:43:54 AM »
seems you already had made up your mind that you were not in the wrong and mistreated so wqhy ask our opinions and then tell us how wrong we are? :)
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline Atomic Chicken

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2005, 02:24:24 PM »
NONYA,

Perhaps what you say is true...

Perhaps also you have made up YOUR mind that I was in the wrong, and nothing I can post about the situation will make any difference to you?

Just a thought.

Best wishes,
Bawko
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Offline NONYA

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2005, 03:12:16 PM »
Perhaps I have,didnt I make that clear in my first post? :D
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline myronman3

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2005, 03:26:59 PM »
dusty-   i just get really tired of folks whos job is knowing what they are selling, and yet dont seem to have the first clue about any of it.    i just cut to the chase and let them know what it is right out of the gate.  
 
 i strongly suspect this is the situation atomic chicken is talking about.   i would just take my business elsewhere where i the atomic chicken.

Offline IntrepidWizard

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2005, 04:04:16 PM »
In Tuolumne Count Kalitaxia there are only two gun shops as Wally World is not in the Gun Business anymore and it has been years since I bought from a store but I had to get some parts at OHS so I took a very old in good condition 94 Winnie with saddle ring in 30 -30 serial # shows 1916 to them and a Colt Double action 38 long in good condition with the Pony symbol serial # 1906 to trade for two Marlins ,many interrutptions and after filling out everything I asked him on Consignemet[I told I was going to buy two guns from the sale] can I picke them up after what period of time and he said any with $40/gun I said hold everything Nellie and he said it was the law and I said goodbye.
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Offline jhm

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2005, 04:34:17 PM »
It takes quite a large amount of capital to stock a gunshop, and the dealer cost is alot higher than alot of fellows realize, then there is the overhead, Insurance, employe labor, lights etc. etc. then you get a character who comes in and wants to look at a few guns, and begins by slaming the cylinder shut by flicking his wrist like he saw a detective do it on a TV show, then procedes to look at a vintage colt single action, puts it on half cock opens the loading gate and spins the cylinder with his left hand like they do on the old westerns, and then procedes to field strip a 1911 becuase he saw it in a magazine all to impress the person behind the counter, you wouldnt have to tell me you were going to take your business somewhere else, you would be invited to GO and be quick about it, being polite to someone who would be the first to point out a little holster wear on a fine handgun and expect it for half price isnt one of my selling points.   JIM

Offline Chris

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2005, 06:17:47 PM »
Atomic Chicken:

Almost 300 people have viewed your post...and I'm sure you've told several if not dozens of your friends/colleagues, about your bad experience.  However, if you had been treated like a "customer"...you may have told two or three people max about your trip to this business.   Alas, many business owners watch their P&L and Balance Sheet like a hawk...and wonder why their business aren't growing or are profitable.

The moral of this story is...

"If good news travels fast...BAD NEWS TRAVELS AT LIGHT SPEED!!!"   Hmmm?   :wink:

Be Safe!  ...Chris    :D
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Offline myronman3

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2005, 03:54:04 PM »
i hear you jhm... i have seen some of these pinheads you are talking about.   they annoy the hell out of me, too.   i always ask permission before i even look at a gun.   i ask if i can handle it,  then take my rings off and put them in my pocket.  i also wipe the gun off when i am done inspecting it.    I ALWAYS REQUEST PERMISSION BEFORE I DO A THING, AS SHOULD EVERYONE.  and i am very fair with my dealers.   i dont mind them making some money off me.  hell, they have to eat too.  
   but there are limits.  when they start taking me for granted and gouging me on prices,  i start buying elsewhere.   usually,  once you find a good dealer,  you're set.   i thought i was,  but it all changed.  but, there are plenty of gun shops in areas i frequent, and online buying is cheap and easy, so i have plenty of options.  

   bottom line is ask before you do anything.  and if you feel like you aint getting treated right,  go elsewhere.      best wishes to all.

Offline Mannlicher

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2005, 12:44:25 PM »
maybe you were a little defensive.    Nothing wrong with taking your custome to another vendor though.
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Offline Buffalo_Hunter

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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2005, 09:07:13 AM »
It seems to me that Atomic Chicken was a potential customer for a handgun and that the clerk was Rude,Arrogant,Argumentative and openly Hostile.None of that adds up to Customer Service Where I come from.Atomic Chicken asked the clerk to disassemble the SIG.but instead was met with stupid comments from the clerk who it appears to me had neither the smarts or common sense to handle the situation in a more appropriate fashion.Some possible solutions: (1) Get someone who could field strip the SIG, (2) advise Atomic Chicken that it was against store policy to field strip weapons.I agree that permission should have been obtained to field strip the weapon prior to doing so,and as far as the comments made earlier in this posting about not letting someone field strip a weapon prior to it being paid in full.I'm glad your shop is not near me,but then again if it was I'm sure that I would not be your customer with that sort of store policy and attitude being exhibited.I'm not out to impress any store clerk or gun shop owner,but would expect them to know their business ,just a I know mine in regards to my occupation.
I would uge Atomic Chicken to seek out another shop,and to let the store lose more sales,and suffer that way,until such times,if ever that they may come to understand that they are not doing him a favor to sell him a gun,but that he is the reason they are in business.Customer's keep Gun Shops in business and without good customers,the store won't exist.
Ignorant,half witted clerks are not the way to run a business,and Atomic Chicken was treated badly by the owners of this store,and I'm sad to say but there seems to be an element of guns shop clerks who act like jerks,and for some reason get off on acting like the idiots that they are.Spend your money where you are treated like a valued customer rather than as a pest and a pain in the neck for wanting to make a good decision on how you spend your money. :D

PS: Atomic Chicken,I would urge you to tell all of your friends,that this store treated you badly,so that they can shop elsewhere too.Money talks and that sort of shop deserves to lose sales.

Offline R.W.Dale

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2005, 10:12:15 AM »
Two great and sad realities of life.


 1  You're never gonna go to a carlot new or used and have a car guy who knows his suff sell you a car because they work in the service dpt. I once asked a VW sales rep if you could turn the traction-stability program off. His response "Why would you wan't to do that".


 2 Gunstores are NO diffrent.

Offline williamlayton

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2005, 01:24:28 AM »
Good and bad communications here.
Good and bad intentions also.
Good and bad emotions.
The clerk, used in the negative, was at the very least, incompetent. Incompetent as a sales person, communicator and representative of the store.
AC-and I say this with some compassion-perhaps you overstepped your bounds some. I would not say that I would have done much differently but I think I would have determined what they would allow and what they would not allow first. I think I would have asked what they would allow and what they would do. It is their store, be it good or bad.
I think that you had every right to have the questions you were seeking an answer too answered to your satisfaction. I would also believe that a competent salesperson would know his/her limits and find the answer or get someone who was capable of the answers.
Perhaps you did go too far. That does not necessarily mean you are a bad person, it just means you might reassess the situation and learn from it and go on.
Time will clear the air and your feelings.
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Offline 35Rem

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2005, 04:33:30 PM »
I guess it's too much to ask for a sales person to know about the products he sells?  It is sad, Krochus.  I too have been to car dealers only to find out I have learned more about the vehicle by spending 5 minutes online, on a website, than the sales rep knows about it.  It really kind of ticks me off.

The same does seem to hold true about gun dealers.  Many times they have uneducated people behind the counter.  (By uneducated, I mean about the products they sell, not just "University" guys, although guns are pretty technical machines)  

It is almost easier, sadly, that one can learn more from the internet (although you must be careful in what you read) than you can from spending some time in a gun shop.  
Believe me, it hurts to admit that.  I have always loved just hanging out in gun shops, soaking up the, well, BS mostly, but you can learn a thing or two in a good shop.
These days, people are just looking for a paycheck, and don't really care about anything else, be it product or customer.

Atomic Chicken, as others have said, it may have been prudent to ask to disassemble the pistols directly. Some folks aren't very deductive.  However, for the clerk, there are definately better ways to handle a situation than what you experienced.  The "manager type person" should also have taken control of this situation, by trying to resolve it, taking over, etc.
If you frequent this shop, and generally like the service, prices, etc., I would give them a second chance.  IF that particular person still works there, the best thing to do would be to attempt to educate that person on firearms, if possible.  Maybe someone else will benifit from it.  Apparently the sales person should, with his limited knowledge.  If not, just don't use that person for anything, ask for someone else.  If you feel very strongly about it, talk to a manager about your experience.
If you won't miss the place, let your money talk, and don't spend it there, thats easy.
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Offline Broken Spoke

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Re: Bad experience at a local gun store today...
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2005, 02:42:41 PM »
Quote from: Atomic Chicken
Greetings!

Something happened today while browsing at a local gun shop.

BEEN THERE DONE THAT IN FACT JUST RECENTLY!!!

THE ANSWER TO YOUR DILEMMA IS SIMPLE, IF THIS BAG BOY HAS RECEIVED COUNSELING IN THE FORM OF "ANGER MANAGEMENT" BY THE OWNER(S) OR MANAGER AND CHASTISED TO THE TENTH POWER AND YOU HAVE AS YOU SAID VISITED THIS ESTABLISHMENT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS WITHOUT RECEIVING THIS TYPE OF TREATMENT I WOULD CERTAINLY CONTINUE TO PATRONIZE THE LOCATION.

NOW ON THE OTHER HAND IF THIS CLOWN WAS ALLOW TO ESCAPE THE DISPLINARY ACTIONS DESCRIBED ABOVE I WOULD TAKE MY BUSINESS "$$$$.$$" THAT IS TO ANOTHER LOCATION WITHOUT LOOKING BACK!!!!!

I WOULD ALSO MAKE EFFORT TO TELL ALL OF MY GUN OWNER FRIENDS ABOUT THE EPISODE, "NOTHING PERSONAL JUST BUSINESS YOU KNOW".
 
THESE DAYS THERE IS JUST TO MUCH COMPETITION,  IE, GUN SHOWS, ONLINE SALES, LOCAL VENDORS ETC; TO BE PLACED ON A PEDESTAL  IN FRONT OF YOUR PEERS SO TO SPEAK,  AND THEN DRESS DOWN BY SOME IDIOT MAKING REMARKS THAT YOU WON'T SOON FORGET.

A PERSON WHO BY HIS OWN ADMISSION IS "INTIMIDATED BY HIS OWN IGNORANCE OF THE ENGISH LANGUAGE" AND WHO PROBABLY STILL PLAYS TIDDLEDY WINKS IN THE AFTERNOON WHILE PUSHING BUGGIES INTO WALLY WORLD DURING THE DAY.
my 2 cents    
 :twisted:
DON''T WORRY ABOUT THE MULE GOING BLIND JUST LOAD THE WAGON  :cry:

NOW, SMOK''''EM TILL THEY MELT!! :shock:

Offline kimber45fan

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2005, 03:55:04 PM »
WOW
I patronize some of the same gun shops JHM does and I  know that  permission must be gained in advance to dissemble a firearm, too many cases od scratching the frame of a 1911 with the slide stop, slamming cylinders with the flick of  a wrist etc, most owners get burned once by potential customers showing off(one shop had a  hole from the showroom into the bathroom from a fellow checking the trigger on an officer model the owner had "slicked up" with brownells graphite, the fellow did not check to see if the gun was loaded, the gunshop owner was talking to another customer and bang the  gun fired, you could have heard a pin drop. Personally I dont strip the gun down...but thats JUST my opinion...gunshops are one of my favorite socializing places..hate to see stress and hard feelings..
 8)  :D

Offline Chris

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Bad experience at a local gun store today..
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2005, 07:42:01 PM »
kimber45fan:

Let's see...

Gun shop  :-)   + customer  :grin:  + unattended  :?  +gun loaded  :o  + gun fired  :eek:  = Gun Shop Out of Business (or should be)  :roll:  

...Chris  :D
"An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike!" Spiro Agnew