handi rifle vs. stevens vs others!!

[b23ball23]

if you had to pick between the two bargin hunting rifles for deer/ varmit...(243 caliber)which one would you choose??? (my first rifle)

i will be mounting bushnell/ mueller high powered scope
with all of the other goodies...bipod, etc

thanks for the help

BEN

[Qaz]

b23ball23- My first rifle was a old Remington 511 (22lr). That rifle holds a place no other gun will. I have always believed that a 22lr should be a persons first gun, and you will shoot it more than any gun you own. You can afford to shoot it!
 That said, what I would do is this; Pick out a nice medium priced rifle that just makes you go "ga ga" and set your sights on that. Try to convince your family to chip in for it for Christmas in leiu of presents and tell them that you will make up the difference. Get a job if you don't already have one and save , save, save! Remember, your first rifle will also be the most special one to your son or daughter that it is passed on to. A good quality firearm lasts for generations.
 
Good luck,
Qaz

[aulrich]

I have both a handi (204 ruger) and A Stevens (270 win) I had a handi in 243 I sold it to finance the 270.  The 243 Handi was OK accuracy wise but I was not impressed with the 243 as a deer round and it was too expensive for shooting PD's and wrecked coyote fur.  

The advantage for a handi is that you do not need to get a comprimise cartridge like 243.  You can get a more capable deer gun (yes 243 will kill a deer but there is better) and add a true varmint barrel for not much more money.

The Stevens has the advantage of being a repeater and probably a safer bet accuracy wise (although my 204 out of the box was sub moa and with hand loads under .5 moa, the 243 was 1.25" at best but I sold it before fully debuging it). I have not shot the Stevens yet but it's a pretty safe bet that I'll get it shooting around 1 moa or so  judging by other range reports.

[b23ball23]

yeah...stevens is a sythetic stock...not as pretty lookin as the walnut handi-rifle

I dont know how the prices compare so.WHAT DOES BASSPRO sell both of these guns for???

i really have heard that most of the NEF's are shooters......same with the stevens..

pros  for the stevens:
-bolt action
-accuracy is known(NOTE: i will NOT be reloading myself)
-quicker 2nd shot

pros for the handi-rifle
-cheaper (I think) dont know BPS price
-walnut stock
-also has accuracy i think (NOTE: i will NOT be reloading myself)


Aulrich- you mentioned i could add a true varmit barrel for not too much money......does this mean you can interchange the barrels??? sorry if this is a dumb question

well guys tough descision....... the choice to be able to have 2 different caliber barrels would also be very nice! (varmit/ target........and a deer/ bigger game)

thanks, sorry for the extensive questions........This is my first one so i want to make it good!!

ps: i had a job over the summer....made pleanty to support this purchase...but i dont want to spend it all (880$)

BEN

[warf73]

I’ve heard good things about the Stevens 200 have only held one and worked the action (in Gander Mountain) it seemed to be ok for a $270 rifle.

The NEF/H&R are good shooters I own a 223, 22-250 and have a 44mag barrel on the way.
My 223 is in the H&R Ultra (the fancier model is all) paid less than $250 out the door of Wal Mart. The rifles come with Weaver style mounts so there is one expense you don’t have to worry about. There Barrel Accessory Program can be found here http://www.hr1871.com/barrelAcc/index.htm

I’ve added the 22-250 and 44mag barrels to my H&R at a cost of $245 for both. I now have 3 rifles for under $500 (not including rings and optics)

So if you don’t mind shooting a single shot then the NEF/H&R is the way to go, and you can add to you rifle caliber select without a huge expense.

If you want a fast second shot or even a third I would say go with the Stevens.
There is a time and place for both rifles in my option it’s your call to decide which one fits your wants/needs.


Warf

[PEPAW]

I have a Handi and I think they are for people who like to tinker and have the time.    Mine has been a royal pain.   Would not shoot out of the box and finally I got rid of the .243 barrel.   Now working on a .270.   I like the gun, but not for its immediate accuracy.
I want a Stevens for the accuracy and dependability.     Everyone needs a gun that is tough as a hammer and costs very little for those rough trips.
I sure don't want my Sako to get any more dings!

pepaw

[aulrich]

PEPAW
is right  with a handi you need to be prepared to tinker, either with the gun or the loads.  The 204 shot good right out of the box where as the 243 took work to make it shoot.  Both were load sensitive so if your not a handloader it can be a pain finding factory ammo that works sometimes.  

So if you not the sort who likes to tinker the Stevens is the way to go.

As for the wood the "ultras" have more attractive laminate stock but the rest mostly have pallet wood.

Seeing you budget I'd skip the handi for now, the two barrels will both need glass and that will force you to buy cheap glass.  Get the Stevens but in 7-08 it's a cannon for varmint but not a whole lot more than a 243 but it a way better biggame round.

[PEPAW]

Doesn't the Stevens come in a 25-06?   Still too big for varmits, but great for deer.

pepaw

[Mac11700]

PEPAW
is right with a handi you need to be prepared to tinker, either with the gun or the loads

No he isn't...your going to have to find what will shoot in all rifles...none are 1/2" shooters with every factory load out there...but some will do exceptionally well with the ones they like...



55 grain Winchester Supreme amm for the 243...no load tinkering...only lapping the barrel and chamber as usual (.904" 5 shot group)



30-06 Ultra-Comp...150 grain Federal Fusion factory ammo...same barrel treatment as the 243...(.233" 5 shot group)

If you want a bolt gun...the go for it...if you want a single shot...well go for the Handi...both are good values...and you can get one that will shoot extreamly well...without all the tinkering...I know...every one I have will shoot accurately...with factory loads...and handloads...


Mac

[aulrich]

"but some will do exceptionally well with the ones they like"

Thats what I mean by tinker if you don't handload, trying different types of ammo.  It makes me twitch when I think of how much it can cost to find the perfect load with factory especially if premium loads are involved.

I think of it as the Wally mart shooting match, if you went down to bought one of each of them and a box of plain ammo (pick your brand). Which would shoot better groups.  I think if there is an edge it would go to the Stevens (except 223 and white box winchester i would not take that bet).  

If you took the 2 and were allowed to tweek (with stock parts) I would say all bets would be off.

[b23ball23]

finding the right load would be a good experience for me as an inexperienced shooter, so i'm up to it


ok, heres what i've been thinking!!!

i am leaning towards the handirifle in .243 for mostly varmits and predetors
then i will send it in and buy a 7mm-08 barrel for deer hunting purposes
(so one shot will take a whitetail down)
I dont really know how bad it kicks....but i dont want to be black and blue just from sighting it in

one concern.... well once you have the 2 barrels, do you interchange them on the gun by yourself?? or what?


thanks for the help!!!

BEN

[handirifle]

My suggestion, since you're going the Handi route, is get a 223, or 22-250 or 204, for the varmints and then add a 7-08 or similar barrel for deer.  The 243 and 7-08 are very close to each other, but the 7-08 can use a lot heavier bullet, cause they are available.

The recoil of the 7-08 is very tolerable in the Handi, my 280 Rem barrel kicked a lot less than I expected and it has a bit more power then the 7-08 (same bullets, more speed).  By the way, I was getting over 3100fps with 139gr bullets with loads well under max listed loads.  Why limit yourself to the 7-08?  Recoil of the 280 is very tolerable, greater power/range and better for bigger game like elk if you desire.  Plus you get a 26" barrel.  My .02 worth.


Yes, it take about one minute to exchange the barrels once you have them.  remove the forearm screw, break open the action and lift off the barrel.  Do it in reverse to install.  It takes about that long to do!

[warf73]

b23ball23

Since you don't reload I would go with the 223 or 22-250 for cheaper varmit ammo.
Not saying the 243 is or won't kill varmits but the ammo will cost more over the 223 or 22-250.
You can buy the 223 or 22-250 in 40 packs(Winchester White Box) from Walmart. I've even seen 40 packs of 22-250 made by Remington.
Just trying to let know you can get more bang for your buck with the lighter calibers.

If you are willing to change from a 243 to a 223 for varmits I would get this one http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3138383 this is the one I have.
Then send the reciever off to get your 7-08 barrel and then your set.
Well until the next barrel  :grin:

Barrel change out is very fast less than 2mins (and thats if your really slow at it)

Warf

[b23ball23]

sounds perfect, i'll check into the deer calibers..........so i'm thinking .223 for varmit, then send for a deer barrel

any suggestions to what deer caliber you would reccomend so there is not too much recoil (15 year old, dont want my arm blown off, but i'm not a wimp)??

is the H&R ultra worth the extra 60$ compared to the handi??

thanks

BEN

[warf73]

The price difference really depends on your preference on the looks.
Both rifles are built on the SB2 receiver and the barrels are the same only thing your getting is the better looking wood.





It's just the looks that you are buying, nothing more.

As for the deer caliber that would be a little easer if we knew the hunting conditions i.e. woods, open fields things of that nature.
What would be the most common distance game will be taken?

I really think with out knowing all the particulars the 308 would be a great round.
Ammo is cheap, extremely large bullet weight ranges in factory loading for this caliber also.

Not sure but I would say the 308 has taken every animal on this content.

Warf

[aulrich]

Glad to see your up to it, realy both options are good ones, and it is hard to look past the versatility of the two barrels, and yes you can do it yourself it takes maybe 2 min.  

Make sure to introduce yourself  to the NEF/H&R group, a real active bunch of guys,  real good at helping out. Be sure to go through the stickys there is a ton of information in there, There is some stuff you need to do before you take the gun out and shoot nothing complicated basically just cleaning.

As for recoil none of the rounds mentioned are big hitters, wear hearing protection and you should be good to go. The .223 ,22-250 or 204 ruger is a big can of worms.  But they pay me to work so I'd better get back at it. :roll:

[PEPAW]

Besides tinkering, there are a heck of a lot of things people have suggested to help your Handi shoot better.    With a Savage, generally you tweek the trigger and find the best of the ammo for your gun.  
My 700 will shoot anything.    
But I like the Handi and will carry it this year on several hunts.    Right now I am refinishing the pallet wood (completely unfinished underneath the barrel and buttpad)    - "tinkering".  

pepaw

[MSP Ret]

I have heard good things about the Stevens but have not seen one. The Handi on the other hand in a commodity well known to me. Accurate, reliable, light to carry and reasonably priced. I would easily choose the Handi but I would not pick the .243 for deer....<><.... :grin:

[AZ223]

My vote is for the Handi, because I own two and they shoot very well - .223 Ultra and 17HMR, both are bull barrels. I haven't heard much about the Stevens. If I were going to venture toward a bolt gun I'd probably go for a Ruger M77 or Savage; I've heard good things about both. Price is higher than a Handi, but that's the market. I think paying under $250 for a shooter is a bargain in anyone's book.

For comparison, I have an older Remington 700 BDL in .30-06, and it shoots very well. The tradeoff is that it's not a "target" rifle -- with a skinny barrel, it's lightweight for hunting, but once at the range and on a hot day in the desert, that barrel heats up and it's hard to keep it on track sometimes. My .223 weighs more than the 700, and the 17 is the same, but they're more fun at the range. Like I said, it's a tradeoff.

[b23ball23]

ok, sounds like the Ultra in .223 for starters. Then once i'm getting used to it i will buy a deer caliber, the only one for the Ultra are 308 and 25-06, i'm leaning towrds the 25-06 for recoil reasons.

25-06 Is plenty for a deer in one, clean shot if i'm not mistaken (let me know if i'm wrong) :grin:


Now, the handi, which lacks the looks, and the bull barrel, has more deer caliber options and ends up being around 60$ cheaper.

the deer calibers for the ultrs are:
25-06 (26 inch barrel)
.308
.450 marlin

The options for the handi rifle barrel exchange are:
.270 win
.280
30-06
.308
and 7mm-08
HMM?

Guys this help has been tremendous, dont worry, i'm already annoying the NEF/ H&R centerfire forums :grin:


THANKS AGAIN

BEN

[Haywire Haywood]

If I had to choose between the two, I would chose the Handi because I have a couple, like how they perform and have never heard of the Stevens rifle.  Like others here, I wouldn't choose the 243 either.  Neither would I choose the 7-08, not because of any ballistic deficiency, but because you are probably not going to see ammo for it in every mom and pop place you might go to.  I would choose a 308 or a 30-06 for that reason.  You can send in for a 223 barrel later if you have a need for a varmint gun.

Ian

[bajabill]

for the barrel acc program, it doesnt matter if you have a regular handi or an ultra.  Just that  it is a newer centerfire rifle receiver.

All caliber choices are open to you either way.  I would get the ultra first, so you have the better looking stock, then add barrels every couple of months or so :lol:

Remember that the stock is either for a scoped rifle OR open sights.  Monte carlo stock for the scopes, straight stock for open sights.  Once you work your way up to a 45/70, get the entire gun in the Buffalo Classic.

BTW, you need a bolt action rifle also, and why not consider a lever for nostalgia for a well rounded collection.

[Badnews Bob]

I own 6 Handi rifle receivers and around ten barrels, All of them shoot well enuff to take deer or varmits with. I'm still not sure if I like'em or not, I think I need to get a couple more just to make sure. :shock: My recommendation for a deer rifle would be a .270 ammos easy to find and they don't kick bad at all.

[b23ball23]

i like the way you think bill!!!!


i think i'll start with the ultra in .223 or similar..then send in for the deer barrel, maybe the bull barrel, maybe not, dunno what caliber either it will work out

thanks for the help

HOMEWORK TIME


BEN

[dgii]

If 6mm is your desire then NEF or other is the only way to go.  Savage is only showing Quarter bore and larger for the Stevens right now.  Looks like it is the long action only right now.  I believe that is the number one selling action for them, cost being the main focus for the lineup.  The more you make the less it cost.  If the barrel quality is equal they should be good shooters.  If it had less bolt throw Savage would rival the best in out of box accuracy.  For the cost not to many do as well with out tuning and bedding.

[mjbgalt]

not long action only. thats just the link that comes up first on the stevens page. that got me too. just put your mouse arrow over the stevens 200 link and it will pop out "long action/short action" and you can look at either.

-Matt

[mitchell]

(15 year old, dont want my arm blown off, but i'm not a wimp)??

hi , mitchell , 19 years old , 175lbs, work out often , but still don't like to blow my arm off either . i've had a lot of handi's , i've had both the 7mm-08(sold it to a kid for his first deer rifle) and i still have the 243. now don't let anybody tell you the 243 wont kill deer just fine (they drop like lightning hit them) but if i where going to get two handi's one for varmints and one for deer the deer rifle wouuld be ,with out a doubt, a 7mm-08 . the one i had shot cheap remmys real well and killed deer just great and you could shoot it all day long and not feel a thing.

[b23ball23]

Ok, this i very helpful

one thing; does the 7mm-08 come in the bull barrel? i'm pretty sure it is just the 22inch barrel.

now what is special about 24/26 inch bull barrels?? is it they are thicker and dont heat up as quick?

any accuracy differences?


THANKS

BEN

[aulrich]

Bull barrel is a bit of a misnomer, short of the ultralights the ones all of the ones I have seen would be bull barrels.  As for the tube lenght that will have varring effect on muzzle velocity. In round like the 7-08 you would be able to measure difference with a cronograph, but in the field no deer will tell the difference.

Now in a round like 25-06 it needs at least 24" 26 being better to get full effect. In a nutshell it how much powder your burning in relation to the size of the bore.

If they still have them (you need to call NEF customer service)  the 270 compensated barrel.  The 270 a step up again from the 7-08 in both power and recoil. But the compensator reduces that recoil, it does it by diverting the gases sideways though holes in the end if the barrel instead of out the front, it significantly reduces recoil.  But the downside is that it makes the gun really loud. But the last that was reported they only had a few left.

When you come home with the 223 make sure to also have the winchester white box 45 grain loads.  Of those who have 223 most report that the winchester load is usually a good or great shooter.

Also just to warn you do use 5.56 millatary surplus in you handi. NEF recommends against it.

[b23ball23]

Ok, thanks for the help on the bull barrel stuff and the white box info.

what do you mean by 5.56 military?

i'll look up the deer caliber info

7-08,  .280, .270, 25-06, and many more options!!! Just more stinking descisions for me to make!!

as of now its seems like i will start out with the ultra in .223, then send in for one of the calibers listed above

bushnell bannor 6-24x
gun cleaning kit
scope mounts/ rails (dunno if rails are needed?)
sling
bipod
whinchester white box ammo, along with some others
hearing protection
and something i might have forgot



THANKS for the help

BEN