Author Topic: Barsness article---------is there a way estimate velocity?  (Read 438 times)

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Offline bluebayou

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Barsness article---------is there a way estimate velocity?
« on: September 27, 2005, 07:28:22 PM »
First off, Handirifle, I am sorry about the smart aleck comment, I edited it out.

The article got me to thinking, is there software or otherwise, a way to estimate velocity?  Or for the same money should I just invest in a chronograph.  If I am going to do this for the rest of my life then I might as well spring for a chrono.  In the mean time is there a download that you could trust with the 7-08's 50000 CUP inches from your face?  After 6 months of handloading I am at the "know enough to be dangerous" stage.  The two books that I have are an old Speer manual (old data was discussed in Graybeards post) and a new Lee manual.  I am getting kind of leary of the Lee manual now, seeing how no one references it or suggests it to new people.  

I guess that I am thinking out loud now, but back to my original question is there a way to figure velocity or should I just make a chrono my next purchase instead of another rifle.

Offline John Traveler1

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calculating muzzle velocity
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2005, 11:29:58 PM »
A generation ago, a device called the Homer Powley Ballistics Computer was available.  It was a circular sliderule device, as I recall, and it was used for estimating muzzle velocity and chamber pressure from a measurement of a cartridge case's water capacity.  Knowing this, the caliber, and bullet weight, a user could estimate (pretty closely) the ballistics of a cartridge and the type powder to use before loading any ammunition.

I've not seen or heard of the HPBC for many years, and can only assume that it has been discontinued because of advances in personal computers and ballistics software.

A chronograph would be a fine addition for anyone serious enough about his ammunition loading to develope accuracy and performance loads.

Your estimation that many handloaders do not have a good opinion of the Lee manual are correct.  Too many errors in data collection and simply bad information makes this a poor reference for any new or veteran handloaders.


HTH
John

Offline Questor

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Barsness article---------is there a way est
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 01:37:01 AM »
Considering the relatively low price and authoritative results that a chronograph will give you, there really is no other option. Anything that just software can do for you will just be an estimate and will not take into account any nuances of your particular equipment and components.  If you want estimates of velocity, just use the data in the reloading manuals. You already have that and it will be at least as good as what the software will do for you, and probably better.
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Offline Graybeard

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Barsness article---------is there a way est
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 03:25:58 AM »
The real world answer is NO, there is no way to with reasonable accuracy estimate the velocity you'll get. Just too many factors. Velocity is as elusive as pressure to pin down without measuring it. Luckily tho chrono's are relatively cheap as compared to pressure measuring equipment so there is no reason not to own one. Buy the best get an Oehler. If at some future date you want to upgrade and add pressure measuring you'll already have the base for it.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline BCB

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Barsness article---------is there a way est
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 09:58:10 AM »
According to the postmark on the envelope that contains the handheld Powley Computer, I purchased it about 15 years ago!  Back then, I absolutely hardly had the funds to purchase a chronograph because the inexpensive, but fairly accurate ones weren’t readily available.  Regardless, the Powley computer was like a slide rule.  It functioned on the fact that its data was based on IMR powders.  I used it for my 270, 308, 30-30, and later the 7-30 Waters.  I recorded the predicted velocities using the powder charges of IMR powders that the Powley computer recommended.  I could crudely use points of impact to sort of verify velocities and they were dang close as predicted by ballistics manuals.  Later, I purchased a chronograph—I now have 2—and just for curiosity, I compared the Powley predicted velocity to the chronographed velocities.  They were literally within a couple of percentage points of what the chronograph registered.  So, it appears the Mr. Powley was able to predict velocities to a fairly good degree of accuracy.  But, my oh my, how tedious that handheld Powley computer was to manipulate.  It will be a part of my reloading equipment, although not used anymore, to be passed on to some other reloader.  I wonder if that person will even know what it was intended to be use for.  And so it goes…BCB

Offline Blackhawk44

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Barsness article---------is there a way est
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 01:06:00 PM »
Go here http://chrony.ca/products_SCMMCM.htm.  Spend $49.95 on this and $3 on a pocket calculator and you have everything you need until you get your monthly reloading column into publication.  As GB said, you can't even begin to 'estimate' velocity from any type of data or 'pressure' indications in any rifle.  A chronograph and two or three late issue reloading manuals will do fine until you get your own laboratory.