Author Topic: posting of loads on this fourm PLEASE READ (Read 25577 times)

Lloyd Smale · « **on:** September 28, 2005, 10:45:35 PM »

From here on out as long as im moderator of this forum any loads which i feel are heavy posted for any gun on this fourm will be edited. If you wish to post a load you use you MUST post a loading manual by name and series and a page you got it from. There are to many beginning loaders on here that can get in serious trouble pushing guns to the limits. It only takes a small error at the level some of these loads are at to destory a gun or worse. If you wish to pass on loads it is an easy matter to email them. This is my stand and it will be inforced and if anyone continues after being warned i will take steps to ban you. This is my stand and i dont know how Greybeard feels about it but it will be inforced strictly. There is alot of confusion right now especially with .45 colts and i myself have allready been corrected suggesting loads to someone with a ruger not knowing he had a new small framed gun. Its just to easy to make a mistake.

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2005, 03:44:46 AM »

I have no problem with the stated policy Lloyd. I have tried hard to keep unsafe loads off these forums but I can't watch all threads on all forums to make it happen.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2005, 08:23:23 AM »

I agree 100%.

oso45-70 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2005, 03:31:02 PM »

Lloyd Smale

Great idea because of the newbies that need advice should spend some money on loading manuals and not depend on the say so of persons on line. There are some that freely give out numbers not knowing how much the person knows about loading. ( A good way to get some one hurt ). A good stand Lloyd and i appluad your decision.......Joe..........

sawfish · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2006, 09:42:17 AM »

Agreed! Some of the Newbies (and some of the Oldies) would also do well to read the Loading Manuals from left to right. Instead of vice-versa.

Catfish · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2006, 03:39:46 PM »

I once found a post, not on this board, where a guy gave a load for a rifle round useing 4895 data by mis- typed and gave 4227 as the powder. For anyone who has any idea about the burn rate chart you could tell at a glance that this load would blow-up any test gun. I posted and the guy must have been watching the board because he came right back with the correction. It was an honest mistake, but it could have gotten someone hurt real bad. For that reason I recomand that that you check any loading data you get from any place other than a known safe source, ie. powder manufacture or good manual. With the improvements in powders even the older manuals have some dangerious loads in them. If your an Ackley fan you should know that mosy of his data was hot in his day and can be real dangerious today.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2006, 08:55:07 AM »

DITTO

I never did feel comfortable with giving loads out over the internet. Like you said, too many FNG's out there to get themselves hurt. I will give out powder and bullet manufacturers, but not specifics.

Well done sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sawfish · « **Reply #7 on:** December 26, 2006, 07:03:39 AM »

I agree with Lawful Larry. It is too cumbersome to require the moderators to check every load posted. If one slips through, the uninformed might presume it is safe. Perhaps the policy should be as Larry stated bullet and powder type only-no specific load. Just MHO.

6Shooter · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2006, 10:02:03 AM »

I can't understand why people would try to reload any caliber without a manuel.
My grandfather who knows so much about reloading told me a load for .45LC that he had loaded for years and was a load I had shot for years but when I started to reload the same round, I first checked the book.
Check the book! Always!

OLDHandgunner · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2007, 03:24:26 AM »

I have no problem with people posting their favorite loads. BUT everyone should have and use updated loading manuals. I still buy a loading manual from a different company every year or so, just to keep up with new calibers, powders, bullets & loads. A couple of my favorite manuals so far is Lyman # 48, Lyman Pistols & Revolvers & of course my old favorite Ken Waters Pet Loads. LOAD SAFELY!!!

halfbreed · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2007, 03:25:02 PM »

Hello guys, I kind of have a differant take on some of this, I have asked for favorite loads on a couple of differant rifle cartridges. OF COURSE I checked the replies with a couple of differant manuals just to be sure they were within safe working limits. I only have so many differant powders on hand. And I know there is someone here who has tried other loads, seating depths etc.
John

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2007, 04:11:26 AM »

Quote from: halfbreed on February 17, 2007, 03:25:02 PM

Hello guys, I kind of have a differant take on some of this, I have asked for favorite loads on a couple of differant rifle cartridges. OF COURSE I checked the replies with a couple of differant manuals just to be sure they were within safe working limits. I only have so many differant powders on hand. And I know there is someone here who has tried other loads, seating depths etc.
John

I could tell you all my secret, favorite loads and none would propably do you any good. The main most important factor in the reloading equation, is the gun. No two guns will shoot alike. So all this information is more then likely useless to you.

I work up loads for all my guns, even if they are the same calibers. But if you are not really worried about consistant shot placement or POA/MOA reliablility -- then just go and buy factory ammo. This would be the easiest and less troublesome route to take.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2007, 04:23:16 AM »

Just to add another suggestion. Do you think it would be a good idea to require a certain minimum amount of information with load data. Some people will list just the powder charge and bullet weight.

I would think that as a minimum for heavy loads you would need to know: Bullet style, weight, Powder type and weight, OAL, brass brand, primer brand and type, and crimp info. I always like it when people come straight out and SAY this is a heavy load.

Even a new reloader ought to know his limits. I didn't play with other people's heavy loads when I first started. In fact I still don't. Although I eventually cooked up some of my own, mainly because I just can't find published data on 200 gr. lead and Lil' Gun in .357s.

slabsides · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2007, 08:40:11 AM »

Too many people use even the manuals incorrectly. They go right to the MAXIMUM and maybe a little more, banking on the assumption that the published load has a 'safety factor' built in. Nothing could be more wrong. I've been reloading cartridges for over 45 years, and I have NEVER found a max or near-max load to be as accurate as a milder one. Some of the most accurate cartridges I ever loaded were with the little Lee 'loader in a box' that used scoops. As a young, underpaid guy with three babies to feed, I couldn't afford the nice RCBS set-up I have today. And those mild loads with safe scooped charges shot as well or better than factory. In a couple of cases, MUCH better. This is the reason that manuals give a loading RANGE (I don't even think they should call it Minimum and Maximum.) Somewhere in this SAFE RANGE you will find the best accuracy for your gun. Rest assured, it will not need to wring the last xx feet per second of velocity from your bullet to do the job. It will usually be found that the optimum load is 3-5% below the safe limit. And that's the load you want. When someone asks me for loads, I'll recommend a best powder and bullet AS I HAVE FOUND THEM TO BE FOR MY GUNS. It's then up to the loader to find the right recipe for himself. You can't have someone else zero your rifle for you, and you can't have someone else find the best load for it, either. In that respect, shooting is pure 'do it yourself'.

warrior1 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2007, 04:03:44 PM »

it's a good call lloyd. preventing even one accident is reason enough.

georgeld · « **Reply #15 on:** August 09, 2007, 02:01:47 PM »

Lloyd:
I'm all for this overseer policy.

I've asked for and given a bunch of loads that I've found were real good for my use and guns.

I also posted a load by mistake that was over max 2gr and wasn't aware of it until I started having
problems. Then checked the jug lable. Sure as hell there it was!! Yikes! No wonder they seemed hotter than normal. aa2200. Although my gun shoots them well, and handles good, extracts easy, etc.

After reading the above posts I shall start rethinking the info I've been and will post from now on.
I thank you all for opening my thick head to the 'possibles'.

George

wyocarp · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2008, 10:57:45 AM »

I guess in practice I agree with you guys. But on another level, I think we are dumbing down our society with all our rules of protection. Just like the yield to pedestrian signs, I don't expect cars to stop for me. We are raising people who aren't encouraged to think or observe. I personally don't mind people getting ran over by vehicles. It allows me to show my children that they can expect everyone else to look out for them, which will work some of the time, or they can look out for themselves.

I would think that most people coming on these types of forums and asking questions are people who do a little more research than the average joe. I allow people to make mistakes instead of cuddling them. We should give information when asked and allow for people to be individuals, otherwise let's just take all the guns away because we would be safer without them.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:04:49 AM »

Don't have to worry about me. My memory is so bad I can't remember anything I haven't written down anyway and I don't carry a manual with me.

sasu · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2008, 08:33:09 AM »

I always cross check every new load in several loading manuals. I do not trust a single loading manual because it is so easy to make a typographical error. If I see an interesting load on the 'net, I definitely cross check the data.

Sometimes there is no official load data available for a combination I need, then I extrapolate from other similar powders and other similar calibers.

I sure hope no one tries a load straight from a forum posting!

Bigeasy · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2008, 03:28:34 PM »

Forums are a good place for general info - Like "a 240 grain XTP at 1350 fps is a good 44 mag deer load in a superblackhawk". But you should ALWAYS use an up to date loading manual to find a safe load to reach the stated goal.

That way, the next time a guy tells you about a load he is using to get 1600 fps with a 300 grain SWC in his 45 LC, you can be sure you are not standing next to him at the range......

mrussel · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2010, 06:02:05 PM »

Quote from: Catfish on August 16, 2006, 03:39:46 PM

I once found a post, not on this board, where a guy gave a load for a rifle round useing 4895 data by mis- typed and gave 4227 as the powder. For anyone who has any idea about the burn rate chart you could tell at a glance that this load would blow-up any test gun. I posted and the guy must have been watching the board because he came right back with the correction. It was an honest mistake, but it could have gotten someone hurt real bad. For that reason I recomand that that you check any loading data you get from any place other than a known safe source, ie. powder manufacture or good manual. With the improvements in powders even the older manuals have some dangerious loads in them. If your an Ackley fan you should know that mosy of his data was hot in his day and can be real dangerious today.

Whats even worse is that these loads will get into a google search. Its not just the new reloaders here that will see it but anyone who does a search on google.

Frank Lee Scarlett · « **Reply #21 on:** December 18, 2010, 12:28:11 PM »

I agree, too much can go wrong if you are not very, very careful when reloading not just for handguns but of any firearm. Safety first, last and always.

Ladobe · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2011, 10:09:21 AM »

My take on it has always been that posting any load data on an open forum is being just as foolhardy as the person asking for it is being, and both should be banned from forums completely for the safety and probable liability issues alone. The information is readily available from many sources, including on-line, that accept the responsibility for publishing it if someone is not too lazy to find it for themselves.

Just my opinion, but it's the one I'm sticking with.

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2011, 12:20:32 PM »

I do tend to agree that both the person asking for load data on forums and anyone giving out such loads aren't using their head for what GOD intended. All load data should be obtained from reliable pressure tested data and for the firearm in which you plan to use it.

I'd not go so far as to say all such persons should be banned as if we did that it wouldn't be long until no one was left. Still I do not like folks giving specific load data on this site and for sure nothing that they don't provide the source data on. I'd rather just see them referred to the data source.

I sure don't get any of my load data from the internet and especially not from forum sites. I might ask someone what powder or powders they have found to work best in some chamering if it's completely new to me but I'll find the specific loads in one of the dozens of loading manuals I own or I'll buy another one for the data.

Ladobe · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2011, 03:03:49 PM »

Thanks Bill for your input and PM.

I wasn't very clear in what I posted above I guess...

I was not suggesting that folks doing so be banned for doing so (as your forum rules now stand). Rather that the practice of asking for or posting load data on any open forum might be a good idea to ban from GBO entirely by adding to or changing the board rules that they are unacceptable practices on GBO, for the good of all members and visitors.

L.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2011, 01:27:34 AM »

i really dont see a problem with guys posting as long as they have specific sources listed as to where they got it. No doubt for 99 percent of loading questions a guy should be looking in a manual and following it to the the letter. Thats why i put the stipulation in that they post a specific manual or sorce. Im not the one that would get sued but i still wouldnt want to feel i had anything to do with someone getting hurt if i can provent it. Back when i posted this there were a couple incidence of some bad info given and i felt that rule would make it so i didnt have to baby sit this fourm 24 hours a day. For the most part guys have been good at it. Another reason i did it on here is theres a reloading fourm just for loads and posting them here takes away from that forum. Since i made that rule there hasnt been much trouble with it and i dont think it justifys banning the posting of loads totaly. Its not greaybeards job or mine either to walk you through the world of reloading and protect you from idiots. We do it because we care not because its our duty. Believe me this is one of the most monitered forums on the internet as far as keeping the idots and egotistical ### ##### away.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:16:56 AM »

I understand the intent of the post but would add that there are loads listed in older manuals that used different testing ( not psi) that have been found to be over max. today with better testing. Hornady also had some data that was incorrect .
Sometimes a fourm like this is the only place such imformation is passed along to some .

ironglow · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:25:29 AM »

Proper move Lloyd.. I can recall years ago, as a beginning hand loader, when I took for gospel, a load mentioned by a well known big game hunter/author...I found some pretty flat primers coming out of my .44 mag Blackhawk !

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2011, 07:03:50 AM »

I'm wondering what ever happened to the concept of individual resposibility? In the case here the poster should be sure of the data posted and the user should double check it against tested data in a manual. The user should also work up to the load as is mentioned adamently in every loading manual. I we say anything about loads what is to prevent "the newbie" from just using the max load in any manual anyway, they do it all the time. We now need to "police" them?

This is supposed to be a forum where we can openly discuss things, especially loads in certain places/topics. If we have to talk in generalities then what's the use, might as well just put a big notice up front and say "go look in loading manual as we will not discuss the particulars here." That is going to curtail a lot of technical discussion that many of us enjoy reading, comparing with our own loads and perhaps learning there is something better. Yes there can be overloads but that is also a problem with loading manual data. That's why any user of any data should work up to the load whether it comes from a manual or here. If we think all "data" that is published is safe in our firearms then perhaps we should read the caustion in most all loading manuals. Just because a load is listed as safe in a test rifle/fixture does not mean it is safe in your rifle. That's why they all say to work up to the load.

To censure information here?

? Do we really need to keep ourselves from ourselves?

? Has there been a problem with any "newbie" using any data mentioned here or are we just percieving a problem based on a pet peeve when there isn't a problem?

Larry Gibson

MePlat · « **Reply #29 on:** July 05, 2011, 09:29:15 AM »

Being paralyzed with fear is becoming the rage in this country.
We have to abide by the rules of any forum to remain on it regardless of how silly they are. They all have some silly rules.
I will abide by rules to remain here.
Just like indoor ranges not letting one shoot reloads. What kind of person, unless they have plenty of money, can afford factory ammo as much most good pistol shooters shoot?
Well pretty soon we won't be able to do much of anything except go to work, eat and sleep and even that may cause problems.
We may get sued over that.