New Medium Bore Bullets for 2006

[Lawdog]

The following is a list of Medium Bore bullets that Barnes is bringing out in their TSX line in 2006.

7mm Caliber
.284 150-grain TSX Boattail
7mm Caliber
.284 175-grain TSX Flat Base
.30 Caliber
.308 165-grain TSX Boattail
8mm Caliber
.323 180-grain TSX Boattail
8mm Caliber
.323 200-grain TSX Boattail
.338 Caliber
.338 250-grain TSX Flat Base
.35 Caliber
.358 200-grain TSX Flat Base
9.3mm Caliber
.366 250-grain TSX Flat Base
9.3mm Caliber
.366 286-grain TSX Flat Base

The 150 gr. TSX Boattail for the 7mm I will be waiting for them to arrive at the store.  Can’t wait to try this one.  That 165 gr. .308 TSX Boattail looks interesting.  Got to give this one a try.  I also like the two new additions for the 8mm shooters.  That 180 g. 8mm TSX Boattail should make for a flat shooting deer/Black Bear load.  Absolutely going to try that 200 gr. .358 TSX in my .35 Whelen.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

I think I will try the .338 250-grain TSX Flat Base.

[Graybeard]

Ho hum. I'd rather throw rocks than shoot Barnes bullets. I'm more accurate with the rocks.

[Redhawk1]

Ho hum. I'd rather throw rocks than shoot Barnes bullets. I'm more accurate with the rocks.

I shoot Barnes bullets all the time, my accuracy is extremely good. Could it be the shooter.  :-D

[Graybeard]

The shooter?  :eek:  Well my rifles shoot ALL other brands into less than MOA. So what do you think?  :lol:

[jro45]

I agree with Graybeard about Barns bullets. I have no use for them.

[Lawdog]

Graybeard,

Ho hum. I'd rather throw rocks than shoot Barnes bullets. I'm more accurate with the rocks.

Have you even tried the new TSX line of bullets or are you basing your statement on the older X bullets that one had to play with seating depth(a lot of the time) to get decent accuracy?  There is a HUGH difference between the X and the TSX line of bullets.  You might try the TSX bullets as I believe you will be pleasantly surprised.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

I agree with Graybeard about Barns bullets. I have no use for them.

You just don't know how to clean the copper fouling out of the barrel.  :-D

[Graybeard]

I know how. I have plenty of experience doing it and plenty of the proper equipment to even include a Foul Out. But really why would a sane person want to waste time on a bullet that fouls so much worse than the rest of the bullets in the world and which most folks agree don't shoot as accurately as hand tossed rocks?

I've given all the various versions of the Barnes bullets a fair shot. I do not own a gun in which they give hunting level accuracy. I own a LOT of guns.

[Ramrod]

I have agree with the old guy here. If my sorry old Core-lockt bullets shoot more accurately than the premium stuff, and kill everything I shoot them with, what do I need premium bullets for? Bragging rights at the local club??? Sorry, I don't care  to keep up with the Jones, it is not only very expensive, but IMHO, the Jones are idiots.

[Redhawk1]

I have agree with the old guy here. If my sorry old Core-lockt bullets shoot more accurately than the premium stuff, and kill everything I shoot them with, what do I need premium bullets for? Bragging rights at the local club??? Sorry, I don't care  to keep up with the Jones, it is not only very expensive, but IMHO, the Jones are idiots.

I don't know what you all are doing wrong, but all my guns that I shoot Barnes bullets in shoot extremely well. I have taken all kinds of game out to 300 yards with one shot. I don't just shoot Barnes bullets, when I am working up loads, I try all kinds and my reloading bench will attest to that.

I don't try to keep up with the Jones, I just get what works for me. I could care less if you think the people that shoot Barnes Bullets are idiots. But you don't shoot my guns and you sure don't have to buy my bullets for me. If you don't shoot premium bullets, why do you have to come here and knock those of us that do? Does it make you feel better?
You want to use Core-lockt bullets and they work for you, great.  I don't knock what works for you so don't knock what I use.  :evil:

Graybeard my post was a joke for jro45. About the copper fouling. I know he does not like the copper fouling from Barnes Bullets.

[Graybeard]

Understand.

But why do you "assume" those of us who do not have your success with Barnes bullets are "doing somthing wrong"? Did it ever occur to you that the rest of the world might NOT be wrong and that Barnes bullets just plain do not work in the vast majority of rifles? Maybe you've lucked up and got rifles in which they do. So have others. But taken as a whole all of the reports I've seen on Barnes bullets show the vast majority of folks who try them find they just plain will not give hunting accuracy from their guns.

This MUST be true cuz even Barnes in their manual and ads at times comment on this point. They really harp on it heavily to try to convince those of us who've found out differently that their bullets really aren't such a problem. They even made a radical change in them by putting grooves in them just to address the issue. Even that doesn't seem to have made any difference tho.

But for me cleaning isn't the issue. I realize that no matter the bullet I shoot the barrel has to be cleaned, just a matter of how many bullets go down it before the cleaning begins. Now I hate to clean barrels as much as anyone but that's not a deciding factor for me.

Accuracy is. I've worked hard to make them shoot. I've experimented with powders, charge levels, primers, cases and of course seating depth. NOTHING helps. They are at best 2" to 3" shooters for three shots at 100 yards and most of the time far worse. FAR WORSE. This is in at least 5-6 bore sizes and 20 or more guns.

For those of you who've lucked up and own guns that will shoot them I say fine. Have at it. Just don't try to convince the rest of the world they will work for us. They won't. And even if they did for 90%+ of the shooting and hunting that folks do they aren't even the best choice IF they will shoot.

IF they will do what they are claimed to do, then they are most appropriate in smaller caliber guns being used for chores best left to larger bores. Or for use on really thick skinned or tough game where maximum penetration of a truly tough target requires their unique character. Even there more conventional premium bullets like the old stand by Nosler PT, Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded and such are pretty much their equal with half or less the cost in many cases.

Now I'm not trying to talk anyone who likes them out of using them. Could care less. But I do intend to continue to explain to folks who don't know better that the few of you who have success with them DO NOT represent the majority and that just because they work for you is NOT reason why they should waste their money on them.

Since preach them as the greatest thing since sliced bread. They plain real world facts are they are not. They do not work for more folks than they do work for. Even for those they do work for they take an inordinate amount of experimentation with out rageously expensive bullets to get them to work.

In the real world most of us shoot and hunt in they simply are NOT needed nor or they the best choice. If in yours they are then go for it. I support you in that use. Just don't try to convince the rest of us they are best for us. They aren't.

[Ramrod]

Redhawk1, I never said people who shoot premiums are idiots. But there are those who always have to have the newest, shiniest, fastest gee-gaw, not because it is "better" than what he has, but because it is "better" than what his neighbors and buddies have. He is the "jones" I'm talking about. Sorry if you took it personal.

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk1, I never said people who shoot premiums are idiots. But there are those who always have to have the newest, shiniest, fastest gee-gaw, not because it is "better" than what he has, but because it is "better" than what his neighbors and buddies have. He is the "jones" I'm talking about. Sorry if you took it personal.

Ramrod, no problem, maybe I just took it wrong. :wink:

Graybeard, I may have found the guns that the Barnes Bullets work will in and it is not just a select few. I have a Browning A-Bolt in 338 Win Mag that I found a great shooting round on the first try with 185 gr. Barnes TXS bullets, I have a Browning A-bolt 243 I have great success with, a Tikka 300 Win Mag with 165 gr. Barns X I have great success with, A Encore in 416 Rigby that shoots 300 gr. Barnes X bullets extremely accurate. I have several other rifles I shoot Barnes bullets in, and my accuracy is extremely good. Not just as hunting accuracy but better.

When I give my feed back on Barnes bullets, I am giving my hands on experience and knowledge of the Barnes bullets. I don't try to make anyone buy them, shoot what makes you happy. Me I will stick with Barnes bullets.

[jro45]

Redhawk,  I have no problem getting the copper out of my rifles it just that when there is more than nessary I try to avoid using that bullet. Barns fits into that area. So I don't care if you use them thats up to you just don't keep pushing them at me.

[Lawdog]

Graybeard,

But really why would a sane person want to waste time on a bullet that fouls so much worse than the rest of the bullets in the world and which most folks agree don't shoot as accurately as hand tossed rocks?

I too have tried all the Barnes bullets from the old X to the newer TSX and Yeah the older X bullets really copper fouled the bore but the newer TSX doesn't foul any worse than any of the other bullets by Nosler, Hornady, etc. if you start with a clean bore to begin with.  As far as accuracy goes, the TSX give me as good or better accuracy than Nosler(all models), Hornady(all models), Remington Core-Lokt or most of the other bullets I have tried.  The only bullet I have found that consistently out shoot the TSX is Sierra MatchKing's.  Only problem with the MatchKing is it isn't made for hunting use(so says Sierra - I called Sierra and asked).

As far as performance goes the TSX performs exactly as Barnes advertises them to.  Our family gave them a try last year on big game using various calibers(from .257 to .458).  Only two of the animals required a second shot(both Black Bears - insurance shots(a habit I live by on dangerous game and I consider Black Bears dangerous game)).  The only bullets we recovered from game were perfectly mushroomed with no petals busted/sheared off.  Retained weight of all TSX bullets we recovered from both game and target back stops has averaged 98(+/-)%.  I have never gotten that kind of weight retention from any lead core bullet.  In the penetration tests that I ran(just for my own peace of mind) using plastic gallon jugs filled with water I found that a lighter weight Barnes bullet out penetrated heavier weight Nosler Partitions.  Calibers I tested were .257 100 gr. Barnes against the 115 gr. Partition, .308 165 gr. Barnes against 180 Partition, and .375 210 gr. against 260 gr. Partitions.  In every case the Barnes bullets out penetrated Partitions.  In talking to a number of PH’s they all
expressed worry(about wounding game unseen/behind the animals being shot) with over penetration of Barnes bullets from their experiences.

I used to use Core-Lokt/Hornady and other bullets back when I first started reloading(1962) but soon found out the Nosler Partitions just out performed(held together - out penetrated) them.  Use whatever bullet you want or what performs best for you.  I have done my own tests and know what works best in my rifles according to my demands.  I require a bullet that doesn’t ever break up(fragment), penetrates and is accurate without fouling.  The Barnes TSX bullets fill this prescription better than any other.  I apologize to everyone for getting so long winded here but when my sanity get questioned after all the test I have done over the years I just feel I must answer.  Please forgive.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk,  I have no problem getting the copper out of my rifles it just that when there is more than nessary I try to avoid using that bullet. Barns fits into that area. So I don't care if you use them thats up to you just don't keep pushing them at me.

IT WAS A JOKE. I was not pushing them at you! Sorry if you took it that way.  :?

[Redhawk1]

Graybeard,

But really why would a sane person want to waste time on a bullet that fouls so much worse than the rest of the bullets in the world and which most folks agree don't shoot as accurately as hand tossed rocks?

I too have tried all the Barnes bullets from the old X to the newer TSX and Yeah the older X bullets really copper fouled the bore but the newer TSX doesn't foul any worse than any of the other bullets by Nosler, Hornady, etc. if you start with a clean bore to begin with.  As far as accuracy goes, the TSX give me as good or better accuracy than Nosler(all models), Hornady(all models), Remington Core-Lokt or most of the other bullets I have tried.  The only bullet I have found that consistently out shoot the TSX is Sierra MatchKing's.  Only problem with the MatchKing is it isn't made for hunting use(so says Sierra - I called Sierra and asked).

As far as performance goes the TSX performs exactly as Barnes advertises them to.  Our family gave them a try last year on big game using various calibers(from .257 to .458).  Only two of the animals required a second shot(both Black Bears - insurance shots(a habit I live by on dangerous game and I consider Black Bears dangerous game)).  The only bullets we recovered from game were perfectly mushroomed with no petals busted/sheared off.  Retained weight of all TSX bullets we recovered from both game and target back stops has averaged 98(+/-)%.  I have never gotten that kind of weight retention from any lead core bullet.  In the penetration tests that I ran(just for my own peace of mind) using plastic gallon jugs filled with water I found that a lighter weight Barnes bullet out penetrated heavier weight Nosler Partitions.  Calibers I tested were .257 100 gr. Barnes against the 115 gr. Partition, .308 165 gr. Barnes against 180 Partition, and .375 210 gr. against 260 gr. Partitions.  In every case the Barnes bullets out penetrated Partitions.  In talking to a number of PH’s they all
expressed worry(about wounding game unseen/behind the animals being shot) with over penetration of Barnes bullets from their experiences.

I used to use Core-Lokt/Hornady and other bullets back when I first started reloading(1962) but soon found out the Nosler Partitions just out performed(held together - out penetrated) them.  Use whatever bullet you want or what performs best for you.  I have done my own tests and know what works best in my rifles according to my demands.  I require a bullet that doesn’t ever break up(fragment), penetrates and is accurate without fouling.  The Barnes TSX bullets fill this prescription better than any other.  I apologize to everyone for getting so long winded here but when my sanity get questioned after all the test I have done over the years I just feel I must answer.  Please forgive.  Lawdog
 

Lawdog, I don't know about you, but I did not push the barnes bullet on anyone, and I don't think you did either. I gave my opinion and experience with them.

I was not the one that came to the thread and slam the Barnes bullets. You don't like them don't use them. THEY WORK FOR ME. Start you own thread about the bullet you like, I bet you won't see me there criticizing your bullet choice unless it is a Varmint bullet for a big game application.  :roll:

[Squeeze]

First of all let me say that I do not mean for this testimonial to
be taken as pushing Barnes Bullets.  I do mean to add to the
testimonials FOR Barnes Bullets, for no other reason that they
have performed IMPRESSIVELY for me.  Obviously, your mileage
may vary.

First, I initially had less than stellar results with Barnes XBT
bullets, accuracy wise...That was until I actually read the Barnes
data book.  That info broke several rules of thumb, that I
use for reloading.  First start .050" off the lands.  I don't know
why these bullets like to jump, to the lands, but they do.  My
groups took a huge leap towards tight, when I seated the bullets,
.050" (+\- .010") off the lands.  Secondly, they like to go fast.
Many of the chamberings I load for, with the powders I use,
seem to like to be less than MAX loads, for the most accurate
load for a given rifle.  When I started pushing the velocity
up to published maximums, with XBT's, and XLC's, several
rifle's groups tightened up even more.  Now I have few problems
getting Barnes bullets, to shoot itty bitty groups, as long as the
rifle is capable of shooting itty bitty groups.

On game performance of the 130 gr. .30 cal XBT bullet, on
northern whitetails, have been well, almost too much.  
Shock, and energy transfer, are pretty wild with this bullet.
Given I hunt where a poorly hit animal might make it to
adjacent property, and could risk being lost to an unfriendly
neighbor, I prefer "too much bullet".  As of this moment,
I have only had "Bang Flop", or "Bang, Stagger, Flop",
responses from big northern whitetails, hit with this bullet.

I am clearly NOT in this majority, that Mr. Graybeard writes
about.  I do have a bunch of Barnes bullet loads, that are
accurate, and have shown some pretty impressive on-game
results.  I am not a Barnes Bullet fanatic.  I also load with Nosler,
Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Berger, and CT bullets.  These days, when I
pull the trigger on large game, there is a Barnes bullet headed
down range.

Finally, Thanks Lawdog, for posting the new 2006 additions
to the Barnes TSX line up.  I am happy to see more bullet offerings,
in this exceptional family of bullets.

Squeeze

[Redhawk1]

Squeeze, very well written. I just wish sometimes I would take the time to answer as thrall as you did.  

[Lawdog]

Redhawk1,

Lawdog, I don't know about you, but I did not push the barnes bullet on anyone, and I don't think you did either. I gave my opinion and experience with them.

I don’t try to push bullets off on anyone either.  When someone asks for a bullet recommendation I tell what I use or would use.  If I find a bullet that does what the manufacture advertised it to do, whether it be something new or otherwise, I forward the information along.  I tried the older Barnes bullets(X’s and XLC’s) but I never recommended them due to inconsistency in accuracy.  To much playing around with seating depth to get the accuracy they were capable of.  For over 40 years I used/recommended nothing but Nosler Partitions.  I have tried most every bullet out there but for hunting nothing Partitions.  Now I have found something better.  Better performance which means better penetration using lighter weight bullets and better accuracy than any except match grade bullets.  The Barnes TSX line.  This is why I made this thread about the new TSX bullets coming from Barnes.  I believed hunters/shooters would benefit from knowing.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Lawdog, I have success with all the barnes bullets I shoot. I still shot the Barnes X with great accuracy. I also shoot the new TSX bullets.  

[Graybeard]

I wish one or both of your rascals lived close enough to come over and borrow some of my rifles and see how they shoot in them. Then if you managed to work up a load they actually did work I'd surrender. But ya don't so I guess we'll just keep on disagreeing on Barnes bullets.

[Redhawk1]

I wish one or both of your rascals lived close enough to come over and borrow some of my rifles and see how they shoot in them. Then if you managed to work up a load they actually did work I'd surrender. But ya don't so I guess we'll just keep on disagreeing on Barnes bullets.

I wish I did live close also, I would love to but some wear on your barrels.    :-D

All joking aside, I do have very good accuracy with my Barnes bullets. I don't have to work hard to find an accurate load either. Graybeard, I guess you just have buzzards luck.  

[Lawdog]

I wish one or both of your rascals lived close enough to come over and borrow some of my rifles and see how they shoot in them. Then if you managed to work up a load they actually did work I'd surrender. But ya don't so I guess we'll just keep on disagreeing on Barnes bullets.

I wish I did live close also, I would love to but some wear on your barrels.    :-D

All joking aside, I do have very good accuracy with my Barnes bullets. I don't have to work hard to find an accurate load either. Graybeard, I guess you just have buzzards luck.  

Redhaqk1, you took the words right out of my mouth.     Wouldn't it be great to spend a few days at a range burning ammo that the expence of didn't come from our pockets?   :-D   Forget the daydreaming for now, as for the older Barnes X bullets I still shoot some of them too.  Mostly because I spent the time to work up accurate loads and because Barnes doesn't have that particular weight in their TSX line.  

Graybeard,

Just because you couldn't find the right combination to make Barnes bullets shoot accurately in your rifles doesn't mean they won't.  I have worked with a few hunters/shooters and got their rifles to shooting Barnes bullets accurately.  Just took a little time in adjusting powders/charges/bullet seating depth and the right combination came about(even in Remington rifles :-D  :-D  :-D ).  As I don’t know what you tried I am at a loss as to why you had no luck.  To bad you didn’t find the right combination as now you don’t know what you’re missing.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Graybeard, you should of come to the range with me today. I was shooting some new loads. I had some 185 gr. Barnes TSX and some 200 gr. Hornady loads. I could not get the 200 gr. Hornady loads to shoot a good consistent group. I went to my 185 gr. Barnes TSX and had 1 to 1 1/4 inch groups at 200 yards. I was shooting my Browning A-Bolt in .338 Win Mag and I found my next Caribou load. And you guessed it, a Barnes 185 gr. TSX.. :-D

[Squeeze]

Redhawk,

What ever did those poor caribou do to you to warrant launching
a 185 gr. Barnes at them! :-D   And out of a .338 Win Mag!!!!  I guess you
want DRT.  Or in this case, Bang THUMP.  Having spent some time
around Alaskan Caribou, I was thinking if I ever went back to the
tundra, to shoot caribou, I would take my .25-06, with a 115 gr TSX.
Or maybe my 300 WSM, if I really wanted to plant them, and to
have something to defend myself with, in the case that Mr. Brown
wanted a piece of me, or my caribou.  I helped an ex-Marine
sniper, pack a caribou out, that he took with a .270 Win.   DRT, but
the problem was where "There" was.  I helped the same guy pack
a moose out of a river bottom, loaded with Alaskan brown bear,
that he took with that same .270 Win.  I wanted a 338, just for
personal protection...60lbs of moose meat on ones back, in
a population of bears, isn't pretty.  My wimpy little .41 mag,
strapped to my hip, didn't provide much comfort.  Given the
opportunity, I would have easily shed 10 lbs of moose meat,
for 10 lbs of big bore rifle.  But a .338 for caribou???  Anyway,
good luck on the caribou hunt.

Squeeze

[Graybeard]

It's NOT just me that can't make them shoot guys and we all know that. On forums like this on every site that has them the stories run against Barnes bullets by a land slide. When I read magazine articles with long lists of loads tried invariably some with Barnes bullets will be there. Almost without exception those will be the least accurate of them.

I've noticed a brand new concept in Barnes bullets that has been announced. Has a plastic tip in a copper bullet with a base hollowed out and stuff with some thng other than lead. Danged if I recall what tho at the moment.

You Barnes guys need to go get you some real soon.  :eek:

[Redhawk1]

Redhawk,

What ever did those poor caribou do to you to warrant launching
a 185 gr. Barnes at them! :-D   And out of a .338 Win Mag!!!!  I guess you
want DRT.  Or in this case, Bang THUMP.  Having spent some time
around Alaskan Caribou, I was thinking if I ever went back to the
tundra, to shoot caribou, I would take my .25-06, with a 115 gr TSX.
Or maybe my 300 WSM, if I really wanted to plant them, and to
have something to defend myself with, in the case that Mr. Brown
wanted a piece of me, or my caribou.  I helped an ex-Marine
sniper, pack a caribou out, that he took with a .270 Win.   DRT, but
the problem was where "There" was.  I helped the same guy pack
a moose out of a river bottom, loaded with Alaskan brown bear,
that he took with that same .270 Win.  I wanted a 338, just for
personal protection...60lbs of moose meat on ones back, in
a population of bears, isn't pretty.  My wimpy little .41 mag,
strapped to my hip, didn't provide much comfort.  Given the
opportunity, I would have easily shed 10 lbs of moose meat,
for 10 lbs of big bore rifle.  But a .338 for caribou???  Anyway,
good luck on the caribou hunt.

Squeeze

Squeeze, I went last year to Alaska and took my Tikka 300 Win Mag. It did a great job. I used a 165 gr. Barnes X and had a one shot kill at 300 yards. I want to take the .338 Win Mag, just to take a different rifle this time. Also we did encounter a big Grizzle last year and I thought the .338 Win Mag would offer a better back up for bear.  I could take my Tikka back, but whats the fun in that.    :-D  My guns have to earn a place in the gun safe.  

[Redhawk1]

It's NOT just me that can't make them shoot guys and we all know that. On forums like this on every site that has them the stories run against Barnes bullets by a land slide. When I read magazine articles with long lists of loads tried invariably some with Barnes bullets will be there. Almost without exception those will be the least accurate of them.

I've noticed a brand new concept in Barnes bullets that has been announced. Has a plastic tip in a copper bullet with a base hollowed out and stuff with some thng other than lead. Danged if I recall what tho at the moment.

You Barnes guys need to go get you some real soon.  :eek:

If I took your advice long ago, I would not be having the success I am having with Barnes bullets.

I try all kinds of new bullets, but at least I can speak from experience and hands on, not what someone wrote in a gun rag.

The only way I am going to find out how something performs in my guns is to shoot them. Sorry if you are a Barnes hater, but I seem to see a trend of more people shooting Barnes TSX bullets.

I think this horse in road into the ground.   :-D