Paper cartridges

[Woodbutcher]

Gentlemen:
 In the recent post comparing .58 cal and .62 cal, BS spoke of using paper cartridges, and hard lead balls.
 It would be real good to learn more about paper patch rb, some of the little hints that go beyond the basic info from the sites on the web.
 Since I don't have a smooth bore, ( yet! ) the ones I make for my rifle are for pre measured charges only. Nevertheless, ideas on adhesive selection, wax, closure, other materials and techniques, ect, would be very interesting.
 So far, the easiest method is plain paper, wide enough to be wrapped around a half inch dowell a couple times, using white glue. Cut to length and use a clothes pin on one end till the glue hardens. Fill it and fold over with tape. You can make a lot of them, pretty fast. Sure beats carring a can of powder, and measurng every charge at the range table!
 Seems the simplest way of doing things needs the experience of fumbling, or advice from those who have. I would appreciate the advice!
                                                                              Woodbutcher

[roundball]

Gentlemen:
Sure beats carring a can of powder, and measurng every charge at the range table!

Since you mentioned 'range table', I'm going to assume you're talking about simple convenience for the duration of a range session, as opposed to some sort of PC / re-enactor requirement.

If that's the case, the easiest, fasted range reloading I've ever found is to simply use pre-measured charges in 35mm film canisters...get as many as you want from film drop off places for free...load them up ahead of time at your convenience at home, and seal them in a ziploc.

I keep several ziplocs filled with 40 canisters, each set of canisters with different powder charges for different loads/calibers, etc...I shoot a 40 shot range session every Saturday morning, take the ziploc bag with the 40 premeasured charges I need for that particular morning, and off I go.

When I get back to the house, part of my clean up activity is to reload / resupply everything so I'm 100% ready for the next trip.  35mm canisters are not PC of course...only suggested them since they are so unbelievably convenient, fast, and free

[BS]

According to Daryl S. a slow twist with wide shallow groves is best. No deeper than .008, with .005 or .006 better. He uses .003 bubble jet paper and 2 and a bit wraps in his .69 cal with a .684 WW ball. The shallow rifling doesn't foul as quickly as deep ones.

I have been trying different thickness and wraps with my 62......it shoots well at 50, but have not found the right combination at 100. The rifling is .012 deep, with equal lands and groves.

I am going to try heavier loads next time, and see if that helps. My lead is only about 1/2 as hard as WW, that may make a difference too!

Daryl shoots 165FF with his 69 cal. and is getting 1 1/2" groups at 100yds. Green River barrel with a 1in66 twist.

This is the fastest speed loading system that I have ever used, and so simple.

[Woodbutcher]

Gentlemen, thank you for your comments.
 Dear Roundball:
 I was using plastic prescription containers, ( they ain't PC either ) but it's a little clumsy pouring into a 50 cal, so I went to half inch paper tubes. The little funnel I was using would get lost in the bore of the cannons you fellas shoot.
 Dear BC:
 Paper patch RB!!! I really like this!! It works in cartridges, so why not RB? Evidently it does for you and Daryl S. I like simple, and fast also! Should work in a 50 cal.
 Do you tie the end with the ball or just fold it over? When you tear open the powder end to pour, do you tear off more paper, or just stuff the whole thing in? Do you use lube, or a grease cookie? What holds the tube together, string, adhesive, or moisture?
 I'd better stop before this gets out of hand, but I sure would appreciate more of your thoughts on this.                        Woodbutcher

[Evil Dog]

This is a copy of a post I made quite a while ago concerning making paper cartridges, hope it helps.

From my rather jaded point of view, anything other than a paper cartridge just isn't proper with a Brown Bess. I rolled mine using 2 complete wraps of recycled news print, a .715 round ball and 85gr GOEX FFFg. Dipped the paper tube in melted Crisco before adding powder. Using the smaller ball loading was never a problem, didn't need a short starter and could easily load with the factory supplied steel ram rod. Rip open the tail of the paper cartridge, dump the powder down the bore then thumb the ball into the muzzle with the paper still wrapped around it as a patch. Just as long as I did my part, that ol' Pedersoli would hit the mark every time. The only problem was if the paper cartridges were approaching 6 months old.... by then the Crisco would have soaked through the paper wrap and contaminate the powder. Even more fun was adding three or six .345 round ball on top followed by a thin overshot card... buck and ball was also a traditional load with the Brown Bess.

[Ramrod]

Evil Dog, thanks for the Bess info. BTW, that's a real nice little gun you have in your avitar. What caiber is it? :wink:

[Evil Dog]

Hey Ramrod.... that's my favorite toy, a half scale Napoleon... 2 1/4" smoothbore.  Fires a cast zinc ball that weighs right at 1 1/2 pounds in front of 500gr GOEX "Cannon".  Recoil is usually 2 to 3 feet.  Currently working on a mortar of the same caliber.

[yottey]

Back in the 70s I used cigerette rolling papers for cartridges for a 54 sharps breach loader it worked great!yottey

[russianblood]

I use to use ZigZag paper to make cartridges for my 1858 Remington revolver. I'd use the glued edge to wrap around the conical bullet, add the powder, then twist the end shut.