760 action tube

[vinconco]

I have a Remington 760 and am trying to remove the action tube assembly. It is very tight and any punch or dowel that I try will either bend or break before the tube loosens. Brownells used to have a tool for this made by Tom Menck but has since discontinued it. Does anyone out there have a solution to my dilemma?

[Dave in WV]

Have you applied heat ie: a propane torch? Maybe it has some strong loctite agent on it.

[gunnut69]

Try freezing the parts in a deep freeze.  It will shrink the male component (the tube). This should break any rust bond that may have formd.  As the part equalizes apply 'KROIL' to the juncture. This highly penetrative oil should invade and lube the threads..easing the tube's removal..

[vinconco]

The problem I'm having is finding something to fit the holes in the action tube that won't mar or deform the tube or break when enough pressure is applied to loosen (or) tighten it back on with enough torque.     For that matter how would you "torque" it back on and to what spec?  Since the action tube is the "nut" that holds the barrel on I'm sure there would be some kind of spec to torque it to.    It would seem that some sort of spanner wrench should be used that would engage 2 holes at a time ...... looked in Brownells, no luck.   I'm sure that Remington doesn't use a "punch or sumpthin' "     Somebody must make a tool for it....

[The Gamemaster]

Take the screw out of the end of the forearm and remove forearm.

Then take a propane torch and heat the tube near the end until it gets hot.

It has red loctite on it and will not break it's adhesion until it gets over 350* F.

The you can use a large punch inside of the hole to turn the tube.

If you cannot get a large punch to fit inside of the holes - Sears sells the punch - and you can size it with a simple drill bit.

You can drill the holes out to 3/16ths of 1 inch and use the next size bigger punch.

The only person that will know that you made the holes larger is you and me.

The tube should turn out then with very little difficulty.  I have done over 20 of them and none of them were ever rusted.  Just loctite'd from the factory to keep the barrel from comming loose.

Don't forget to use at least Blue Loctite to the threads before reassembling.

The torque should be about 40 - 50 ft. lbs. - Or about as tight as you can get it before it bends the punch.  Craftsman punches are lifetime guarenteed - so just use it and then take it back and get it replaced after you are done.  What do you care if it gets bent.

The secret to getting it apart is to make two large pieces of plywood that will work as jaws in a mechanics vise in a work shop and put a piece of carpeting between the gun and the wooden jaws and tighten in the vise.  That will hold the gun while you are trying to take it apart and put it back together.

[vinconco]

Gamemaster;
   Thanks for the info.  The reason I'm wanting to take it apart is that this 7600 carbine has a shifting "point of impact" and someone suggested that it may be a loose barrel.  I have changed scopes to a known good scope, checked the base and base screws to make sure it was tight and the screws not bottoming out etc. but still this carbine has a shifting zero.  I know these guns are capable of shooting as good as most bolt guns and I hate to let this carbine go if it can be fixed.  Let me know if you have any ideas on what this problem could be.

Steve

[gunnut69]

I have found the 760 pumps quite accurate but they are a bit sensitive to where the forearm is rested on the bag.. Also check the bolt head for contact between the bolt head and the barrel extension. I like at least most of the lugs to bear..

[vinconco]

I have found the 760 pumps quite accurate but they are a bit sensitive to where the forearm is rested on the bag.. Also check the bolt head for contact between the bolt head and the barrel extension. I like at least most of the lugs to bear..

Gunnut;   Thanks for your response

Actually, this gun is a 7600 carbine.   Unlike my 760 rifle, the 7600 forearm doesn’t touch the barrel when in battery so I'm not sure that has any effect when shooting on the bag.  The forearm seems to “free float”

By bolt contact, do you mean lug contact?   The 7600 has only 2 or 3 lugs (I don't have the gun in front of me) but not the rows of many like the 760.  I can see uneven bolt lug contact causing a loss of accuracy but this carbine exhibits great accuracy but then shifting groups.   I can sight it in, no problem, and then check it in a week or so and the impact point of the group has shifted 2" or so.  Normally this would indicate a scope or mount problem but I have eliminated them as possibilities by changing scopes (twice) and pulling the mount and checking screw depth, then re-installing the base to proper torque w/ loctite.

I will check the wear pattern on the lugs when I get home this weekend.

I have been battling this for a while now so your ideas are certainly appreciated and hopefully we will find the solution soon.

Thanks

Steve

[gunnut69]

The 760 also floats the barrel but there is precious little barrel in the receiver supporting the length protruding forward. At least that's my guess why they seem a bit sensitibe to the forearms position on the bags. It's at least worth a try.. I understand the weapon is a 7600 but I also understand that model is a slightly changed 760.. They made it easier to make and so I assumed it's problems woulld resembal those of it's predecessors. You may also want to fire a group from a purely cold barrel.. Many rifles will not group in the same place with a warn barrel..  If the rifle were a one piece stocked bolt gun I'd check the barrel contact.. but??? Check the groups after the rifle has thoroughly cooled and see if they've moved.

[vinconco]

 Siskiyou;
   I learned the copper lesson just after I learned the lead one and these Remington pumps seem to be very prone to copper fouling so after each session I clean it until no green / blue. 

Gunnut;
I have an old 760 rifle (30-06) that shoots as good as any bolt hunting rifle I have owned but it had the problem of a noisy forearm.  I guess wear in the rails and loose tolerances caused the forearm assembly to really get loosey goosey and this makes things tough in the deer woods.  I solved the problem by gluing a pad on the barrel that makes contact with the forearm (like a pressure pad in a bolt rifle forearm)  This quieted things down considerably and the rifle shoots sub MOA and stays on zero.

Gunnut
I have had barrels that (walked) when warm and I suspected the 7600 at first but since I shot and sighted it in warm then it should have gone back to zero when it warmed up again.... it didn't.

I remember the first time I got on this subject on another forum someone suggested that the barrel might not be all the way tight and so far that’s the only thing I haven't verified.....because of the action tube.   Since I'm beginning to believe a proper tool isn't available I will try heat and fit a punch to the holes as Gamemaster suggested.


 

[gunnut69]

I've worked on several and all exhibited the trait of impact shift from differing forearm positions.. Of course I wouldn't have even been involved if there had not been some problem.. The only tool I've ever used to remove the tube is a heavy punch and a propane torch.. there is a tool I've seen to remove these. It was simply a tube with an internal diameter the same as the external diameter of the tube. It had 2 holes that matched the holes in the forearm tube. In use the 'wrench' was slipped over the forearm tube and a piece of drill rod was inserted thru both. The other end and a large thru bolt with knobs, much like the stock bolt wrench sold by Brownells.. The thing is the heat is still needed and I've never had any problems..

[vinconco]

Gunnut;
    Thanks for the info on the tool.  I do understand the process now.   

What I'm not sure of is the forearm contact thing.  I have a 760 with full forearm / barrel contact that shoots sub MOA groups to the same place day in and out, off a bench or bipod.  Offhand groups still shoot to the point of aim.

Then the 7600 with no forearm contact shoots good groups that wander around the paper over time.  I generally check the zero a couple times during deer season and I always have to adjust the 7600 a couple inches but not the 760.  So if we take forearm contact and scope / mount off the table, what is left?

note:  when I installed the "pressure pad" on the 760 rifle to quiet the forearm rattle the groups shrunk 50%

[The Gamemaster]

The wrench you are talking about is called a spanner wrench.

They have been around for a couple of hundred years now.

Finding one for a Remington 760 / 7600 is nearly impossible.  The only people that would have had one would be a place that was a authorized Remington repair center - and most of them guard them with their lives.

There is no way in he11 that the barrel can come loose in one of them guns.

The factory makes sure that it is tight.

Your best bet is to sell your 7600 and buy a used 760 Gamemaster.

I saw a couple of dozen of them in the last week  in my travels and most of them retails for about $350 - $450 depending on condition and options.

Wal Mart is what ruined the gun industry.  You cannot tell Remington that you want to buy 100,000 rifles a year and you want to buy them for $50 less than what they would sell them to their other wholesalers and not get all of their blems and rejects.

The origional system ( 760 Gamemasters ) had a series of lugs on the bolt that locked into the barrel and they are a very accurate rifle out to about 300 yards.

They were all full floated barrels and no amount of leaning on the forearms would make them shift their point of aim.  You could however cant them in a different direction than what they were sighted in at and make the POA change some.  That's just due to a little slop in the rails and the tube and the forearm - not because something is putting pressure on the barrel.

Any wander that you have would be a result of a couple of different things.

1. Poor Scope mounts.

2. Poor Optic's - a cheap scope - or even a good scope that was junk from day one will give you nothing but trouble.

3. A improperly mounted scope. 

If you buy a scope and just mount it to the gun and it isn't bore sighted correctly or you use the wrong type of scope mount and the barrel is pointed one way and the scope is pointed the other - it isn't going to be accurate.

4. The wrong ammo for the job.  I don't know what caliber that you have but here is some examples.

I own two 30 / 06's and two 270 Winchesters, all model 760 Gamemasters

 2 are ADL's and 2 are BDL's.
 
I have owned at least 10 different Gamemasters in my life - everything from a 35 Remington - my first gun to a Model 6 - 270 my last gun.

I shot 150 gr Remington Core Loc's in the 35 Remington.
I shoot 150 gr hand loads in my 30 / 06's
I shoot 130 gr hand loads in one of my 270's
I shoot 140 gr hand loads in one of my other 270's

Now comes the fun part.

I took a barrel off one of my 760's and put it on a different 760, both were 30 / 06's

One was in mint condition - but was a ADL and the other was my favorite BDL that I wanted to make better - because the blue was missing and I do not plan on selling this gun ever.

The BDL was sighted in first.  It was 4 inches high and 3 inches to the left.
 I moved the scope and it shot bulls eye's again. 

The ADL I shot and it shot 4 inches low and 3 inches to the right. 
So what does that tell me?  That the action is pointed in the same place and the barrels were pointed in different directions - but that they were identical.

I will also add that when I changed the barrels I also changed the bolts and the parts that connected to the pump and the triggers.  Because I knew that the recievers were all machined the same way and the head space would be the same when I switched them.

The ADL had a cheap Weaver 3 x 9 x 40 scope and the BDL has a Redfield Widefield 3 x 9

Here is another example.

I have a BDL 270 and I shoot 130 Gr Hornadys and Winchester bag bullets and it shoots great.
I use 130 gr hand loads - but they are factory duplicate loads - 55.5 gr of IMR 4350.

 I wanted a gun for hunting bears and stuff and I didn't want to mess around sighting in between seasons.  So I took a second BDL that I had that only had a 3 x 9 x 40 Simmons scope on it and I sighted it in for 200 yards with a 140 gr Hornady Spire Point bullets ,  hand loaded for that gun and it is sighted in so well that it will put two bullets in the same hole at 200 yards.

It has done it several times since then - with ammo from different batches reloaded 4 years apart.  The scope has never been touched.

The other BDL 270 has a 4 x 12 x 40 Simmons scope and you can cover 5 shots with a 50 cent piece at 100 yards.  Which is more than good enough to hunt whitetail deer in Pennsylvania.

You would think that the scope with the higher magnification would shoot better than the scope with the lower magnification.

I also have the Model 6 that is a half way gun - almost a Gamemaster and almost a 7600.
It just has a cheap 3 x 9 scope on it and it will shoot, but not as good as any of the 760's !

Now a kid came over one day and he bought a new 7600 Remington with the synthetic stock and 2 boxes of 180 gr Remington Core Loc's and his gun had a $400 tatical scope on it.
Everything brand new, everything bore sighted and mounted in a gun shop by a gun smith.

He shot both boxes of ammo and never hit the target in the same place twice.

Just to make sure that he was not just a bad shot, I took the gun off him and took 3 shots.
It looked llike I was drunk, shooting at a road sign on the first day of deer season.

I tried my hand loaded 150 gr ammo and I could do no better with his gun.

I gave him my 760 / '06 and he shot 3 times and hit the bulls eye twice.

We took that gun of his and the shells back to the shop where he bought it and threw it on the counter.
Demanded a full refund. 
Bought a used 760 off the shelf - one of the oldest rustiest looking guns you ever saw and  2 new boxes of 150 gr Remington ammo and a $300 Swift scope and went back to the range and shot the crap out of the bullseye..

The new bolt action in them 7600's were not better than the older model - just cheaper for them to manufacture.

Your only option would be to invest heavily in a reloading outfit and try to develope a load that your gun might like.  Working with different powders and different bullets until you find something that is a little more accurate.  Or just getting rid of the gun and let someone else worry about how it shoots.

Borrow another scope and some mounts and  tryi to see if it would improve the accuracy some.

Taking it to a gunsmith and having the head space checked out along with the barrel - hane them slug it to see what diameter it is and also putting a new crown on the end of the barrel.  All which will cost you money.  Or just getting rid of the gun and buying a good used one.

I will sell you a set of Weaver Detachable Scope mounts and the rail for $15 + the cost of shipping.

[vinconco]

 Gamemaster;
   
I like the idea of solving the problem by just buying another gun…. Can’t believe I didn’t think of it right away.

[gunnut69]

One other thing I thought of,, Ruger No.1's with loose butt stocks can have really strange accuracy gremlins.. Perhaps the butt stock isn't tight.. Doesn't have to be loose exactly just not good and tight?? As to Gamemaster's thoughts, I am simply astounded,, and lost.. The rifle shoots fine..it just has a wondering zero.. And I think the 7600's may actually be better designed than the 760's. All those lugs are nearly impossible to accurately machine but the smaller numbers on the 7600 make the task much easier..

[Modoc ED]

It has red loctite on it and will not break it's adhesion until it gets over 350* F.

I personally own two Remington 760s and one Remington 7600.  One of the 760s was made in Feb 1952 (purchased used) and the other was made in Apr 1966 (purchased new).  I have had both apart for various reasnons and did not see any signs of Loctite (Red, Blue, Green or otherwise) on the threads of the action tube.  I have also had a couple of friends 760s apart and no sign of Loctite on their rifles either.  I'm not saying it (Loctite) wasn't used on some rifles, I'm just saying that I've never see it used on any rifle that I have worked on.

When you put it back together, tighten the action tube firmly until it is snug.  Do not crank it down too tight.  Just use some common sense and patience and don't be "ham fisted".  A little penetrating oil at the junction may be helpful.

[Modoc ED]

Original post deleted by Modoc ED.  Not germane to this thread.  Sorry for any confusion.
ED

[Modoc ED]

One other thing I thought of,, Ruger No.1's with loose butt stocks can have really strange accuracy gremlins.. Perhaps the butt stock isn't tight.. Doesn't have to be loose exactly just not good and tight??

That's a good thought gunnut69.  Sometimes, it's the simple things.

vinconco -

Check all the fasteners on your rifle to ensure that they are correctly tightened - screws, nuts, pins, whatever.  It's just good maintenance to do so.  Just as important as proper cleaning.   

[Modoc ED]

That Captain Jack was one bad dude.  I go past the Stronghold at least monthly.

[vinconco]

Modoc ED
    Many thanks, this was the info I was looking for.

Steve

[Keith L]

Modoc Ed,

Note that I am posting this on this thread as to not provoke your sarcasim. 

If we get a vote I hope Gunnut doesn't make your other thread into a sticky.  Were he to do that for each gun that raises a question we would have several pages of stickys to sort through prior to reading new threads.  While it was quite helpful for a few readers to see the information you posted, and it was good of you to put it up for them, it is hardly important for the majority of readers who will never have a similar gun in their hands.  It will be available for anyone to find using the search function.

I think your response to another poster like on the other thread is uncalled for.  That is not the norm on this board.

[vinconco]

Modoc Ed;
   I've been looking at the pic of the forend nut tool and I have a question about the  1/4" x 3/16 "ears" at the business end.  Are these to engage a drill rod inserted through the action tube holes? 

[Modoc ED]

Modoc Ed;
   I've been looking at the pic of the forend nut tool and I have a question about the  1/4" x 3/16 "ears" at the business end.  Are these to engage a drill rod inserted through the action tube holes? 

No.  It is to engage a forend nut that held the forend on the early model 760s.  Your 760 may not be held on by this type of nut but rather by a screw.  I posted the diagram to help those with the fore end nut mounted forends.  Regardless, it is still a good tool to have in your tool box.

[Modoc ED]

Modoc Ed,

Note that I am posting this on this thread as to not provoke your sarcasim. 

If we get a vote I hope Gunnut doesn't make your other thread into a sticky.  Were he to do that for each gun that raises a question we would have several pages of stickys to sort through prior to reading new threads.  While it was quite helpful for a few readers to see the information you posted, and it was good of you to put it up for them, it is hardly important for the majority of readers who will never have a similar gun in their hands.  It will be available for anyone to find using the search function.

I think your response to another poster like on the other thread is uncalled for.  That is not the norm on this board.

Well gee wizz KeithL. How's this.  The moderator for the Gunsmithing Forum creates a thread maybe called Gunsmithing Stickies in the Gunsmithing Forum, locks appropriate threads, puts them in the Gunsmithing Stickies Thread and then there is only ONE thread with multiple stickies in it.  That way you avoid pages of stickies to wade through.  They do it that way on several forums.  Some forums even have a separate Sticky Forum just for stickies.

As for my interface with the poster you are talking about, that is between he and I and I have sent him a Personal Messge about it.

Now as for your statement -- "it is hardly important for the majority of readers who will never have a similar gun in their hands." (comes across as sarcastic to me)  I don't think so.  Have you ever been to the "Semiauto and Pump Action Rifle" forum.  There are a heck of a lot of people who have semiauto and pump action rifles and whether they are ALL 760s some of the info I provided applies to many rifles.

What it all boils down to in the end is that I was only trying to share some info via a copy of an original OEM Instruction Folder and was really hoping that more guys would do the same for reasons I stated in an earlier post in this thread.  In case you missed it, it is to keep the old guns going instead of seeing them go to waste in the back of a dark closet because they need maintenance and attention.

[Keith L]

Ed, you are the one who made it public.  I just called you on it.

[Modoc ED]

Keith L -

Upon reflection, I guess I may have POed you and maybe some others.  I wasn't trying to force my wants on the Forum and hope it didn't come across that way although it probably did -- my bad.  In order to preclude any confusion, anger, etc., I have removed my "Remington 760 Gamemaster Instructiion Folder" thread from the Forum. 

Let's move on and enjoy the merits of this Forum.

ED

[gunnut69]

Actually folks there is some merit to both arguments.. Locating takedown instructions and parts blow ups can be a frustrating task.. But I hesitate to create a sticky for each weapon.. How about a sticky for the 'PURPOSE' of posting such instructions and diagrams. Further, it would be a place to request assistance in such a search.. Aby objections or comments. I learned some time ago that 2 heads(with brain engaged) are better than one.

[Keith L]

I like Modoc Ed's suggestion to have a sticky to hold the sticky's.  I am thinking about asking Matt if we can do that.  One of my forums has sticky's that preceeded me and I would like to keep them organized.

In a way I regret now having said anything.  I think having the scanned in manual available by search (or in the aforementioned sticky for sticky's) would be an asset.  I never thought it needed to be removed.

[Siskiyou]

Modoc ED:  I must have missed something last night while I slept, but feel fortunate to have copied your information on the M760 while it was still posted.  Of special interest was the Action Tube wrench.  At times the nut backs off a little and may prevent the action from locking up. Tightening the nut will take care of the problem.  According to Remington they manufactured approximately 1.03 million copies of this firearm.

I believe the described wrench will also serve the purpose on the 870 Wingmaster, which Remington says they have made approximately 8 million copies.  I do not know if the Wingmaster always used the same nut.

And thanks for the PM.

[Modoc ED]

Modoc ED:  I must have missed something last night while I slept, but feel fortunate to have copied your information on the M760 while it was still posted.  Of special interest was the Action Tube wrench.  At times the nut backs off a little and may prevent the action from locking up. Tightening the nut will take care of the problem.  According to Remington they manufactured approximately 1.03 million copies of this firearm.

I believe the described wrench will also serve the purpose on the 870 Wingmaster, which Remington says they have made approximately 8 million copies.  I do not know if the Wingmaster always used the same nut.

And thanks for the PM.

The wrench for the 760 forend nut is smaller than the wrench for the 870 forend nut.  The 760 forend wrench is not made by anyone that I know of anymore.  That is why I posted the specs because I thought some of the guys might find it useful.  You can currently buy a 870 forend nut wrench from Brownells.  As a matter of fact they have several styles.