.308 v. 30-06 v. 7mm-08 v. .270

[Mainer]

I'm trying to decide between one of the above for my next Handi.

Use:  Medium range deer rifle (out to 200yds) and also antelope rifle (out to 250+ yds) for trips out West.

Additional Necessity:  Plentiful factory ammo from premium hunting rounds to cheap plinking rounds.

7mm-08 is probably the best cartridge for the above, but I'm concerned about cartridges derived from the .308 sticking in a Handi.  Also, ammo is not as plentiful as for my other choices.

.270 is normally an excellent round, but I'm afraid its performance would suffer in a 22" rifle.  I also wonder what muzzle blast would be in a 22" rifle.  In addition, I hear that high pressure rounds are more prone to sticking, and I believe the .270 is the highest pressure round offered in a Handi.

.308 would do the job, but, again, I'm concerned about cartridge sticking, and my understanding is that .308-style cases are more prone to sticking in a Handi.

Finally, there is the 30-06, an excellent cartridge, but more power than I need.  However, my understanding is that 30-06 type cases are less prone to sticking in a Handi.

Yes, there is the 30-30, but absent pointy-bullet handloads it doesn't offer the range I want.

Once factory ammo availability is factored in, the choice seems to be .308, .270, or 30-06.  But which one?

[AZ223]

You've opened a hornet's nest with this one, but here goes: There is some difference between the four cartridges you named at the beginning of the thread, on paper anyway. Most claim the .270 has a flatter trajectory, which is going to be the case with any load that has a higher velocity. I like the .30-06 because you can shoot heavier bullets in it if you wish, and as I handload, I can also get 150gr loads going 3000fps, which isn't too much different than the .270 using 130 or 140gr bullets. The .308 took over many of the '06 records for long-range matches; velocity doesn't necessarily guarantee accuracy. But how many shooters can wring out the absolute potential of any given cartridge? Not very many.

If this is for hunting, I'd say flip a coin, especially if you're looking to factory loads primarily. An animal hit with either bullet in the same place at the same distance won't know the difference. The nice thing is, these posts of "which is better..." always have a lot of information on the various calibers in question, so enjoy!  

[trotterlg]

I would think the obvious cartridge for a combo deer antelope would be a .243, but then the cases might stick. ;^)

[Mainer]

If this were to be a dedicated antelope gun, I'd gun buy a 24" Ultra Varmit in .243.  However, for deer, I want more penetration and more power to blast through brush.

[mitchell]

i don't know what this stuff is about the 308 family cases sticking but its not true .



to answer the question the 270win sounds like a winner to me

[Mainer]

I don't know if it's representative, but my now gone .243 would stick cases.  I mostly solved the problem by chamber polishing, but it would still stick PMC cases BIG TIME.  They require some force to push out with a cleaning rod, not just a light tap.

[.308]

30-06!   I would not be too concerned about having too much power. :wink: If Jack O'Connor were still around he'd make a good argument for the 270 I'm sure.

[mitchell]

i guess my luck has been different. i've had three handi's in the 308 family and of them i've only had a stuck case in the 243 but that was when the load was getting a little too hot . now of the 06 family he only one i've had (i have had 30-06 270 and 25-06)not have a FTE was the 270.

[Mainer]

Maybe I should buy one each of the .308, 7mm-08, .270, and 30-06 and rationalize it to my wife on the grounds that I'm researching whether the .308 family of cases truly is more prone to stick than the 30-06 family. :grin:  She's an engineer so she really should be all in favor of scientific experimentation. :roll:    Only problem is it would get quite costly to buy scopes for all those rifles. :wink:

[ScatterGunner]

get all of them if you can !

but if you hand load, the 30-06 will offer the best range of bullets and loads than most others. some of the other calibers will perform better under certain conditions, but the 30-06 is a really good overall cartridge. you can get jacketed bullets from 110 grain to 220 grains and lyman, lee, and others sell a really wide range of cast bullet molds.

sg

[mitchell]

Maybe I should buy one each of the .308, 7mm-08, .270, and 30-06 and rationalize it to my wife on the grounds that I'm researching whether the .308 family of cases truly is more prone to stick than the 30-06 family. :grin:  She's an engineer so she really should be all in favor of scientific experimentation. :roll:    Only problem is it would get quite costly to buy scopes for all those rifles. :wink:

bite the bullet brother its for the good of us all!!!





i have had or still do have the fallowing: 30-06, 270, 25-06, 223, 204, 22 hornet, 243, 7mm-08, 308, 45-70 ,450and thats it i think. the only one to have sticky cases were the 30-06 25-06 and 223 all where fixed with a chamber polish. also with nef going to extractors say good bye to stuck cases forever.

[Mainer]

Seriously, though, how does the .270 perform out of a 22" barrel?  I really wish H&R made the .270 with a 24" barrel.

[JPH45]

Mainer, I doubt I'll answer your question........ I've been weighing what I may want for a next rifle. I shoot lots of cast, but it could be nice to have a rifle/barrel I wouldn't mind running full bore once in a while. I've been looking at the 25-06, 7-08, 280 Remington and 30-06. Of them, the 7-08 is quite intriguing to me. With 140 grains it is very like a 308/30-06. But stuff heavy weight bullets in it and it gets down to 30-30AI performance, ie, 175 grain bullets at 2200-2400 fps with powder charges that are still small as compared to something like the 280 Remington/30-06. As well, Accurate lists data using 8700, a very slow cheap powder used in 50 BMG. Interesting as well, it performs within the same velocity/bullet weight range as the ever popular 6.5x55 Swiss. The 25-06 is intriguing as well, but is enough overbore that is begins ot take on some magnum characteristics, and once again 8700 (WC 872/WC860) give very near full velocity performance. As things go, the 25-06 and 270 are kings of long range medium game hunting. Was a time prior to stuff like the 7mm Remington Mag., that these were as good as it got for a shooter going after stuff like antelope. Maine's got plenty of whitetails, albiet  heavier somewhat than down here, but with the possibility of moose and heavy black bear on your local agenda, I think the 7-08 offers something to look at more than casually. It offers high speed light weight bullets, and heavy bullets at moderate velocities that have a solid, long history of killing heavy game well. I think the 7-08 is the one you're really looking for.

Edit for spelling and info blooper.

[Mainer]

I agree that, in theory, the 7mm-08 would be ideal for my purposes.  But here are my two concerns:

(1)  That it might be a case-sticker (not a huge concern because I could just trade it for another caliber at a minimal loss);

(2)  Ammo is not as widely available nor available in as many flavors as it is for the .308/30-06/.270.

On the one hand, I want to take up handloading for rifle cartridges--which weighs in favor of the 7mm-08.  On the other hand there's something to be said for being able to buy ammo at Walmart/K-mart on the way to the range after a long work week.

[trotterlg]

I am constantly amazed at how well the PR departments of the gun makers along with the "experts" who write in the magazines are able to convience otherwise normal people that it takes an ever escalating amount of energy to kill a deer.  When I was young, which was a while ago, a deer would die just fine when shot with a 25-20, and an elk would drop in it's tracks with a shot from a 30-30.  Now days it takes at least a 270 for deer and 7mm magnum for an elk.  If it keeps up at this rate we will need those 06's just to pop a groundhog in a few years.  Get real people, a 243 is plenty enough gun to kill anything that won't eat you, and it will leave something for you to eat.  Larry

[JPH45]

I agree that, in theory, the 7mm-08 would be ideal for my purposes.  But here are my two concerns:

(1)  That it might be a case-sticker (not a huge concern because I could just trade it for another caliber at a minimal loss);

(2)  Ammo is not as widely available nor available in as many flavors as it is for the .308/30-06/.270.

On the one hand, I want to take up handloading for rifle cartridges--which weighs in favor of the 7mm-08.  On the other hand there's something to be said for being able to buy ammo at Walmart/K-mart on the way to the range after a long work week.

It always confuses me when folks talk about the need to get ammo while out on a hunt somewhere..... When did you last go hunting and forget your ammo??? Obviously I'd be all for your taking up reloading. The last factory ammo I bought I was 2 1/2 years ago when I first got my 44 and 357. I had traded my reloading equipment for some work I needed done on our house as we were building (good trade at the time) at some factory ammo was all I was able to shoot. As soion as I could I got the Lee Challanger press kit, some powder, primers, and cases from Midway and haven't gone back for factory ammo. You can load jacketed bullet loads for half what you pay for factory. Once you start reloading, your trips to the range will revolve around the ammo you make.  The one thing about the 308 or 30-06 is that lots of folks throw away perfectly good brass at the range. You'll always have a source of brass available, and the price is right too. You are right though, there is a premimum to pay for factory ammo that is less commonly used.

[bluebayou]

Just so that you guys know, at Walmart the 140 gr Power Point and the 140 gr Corelokt are stock items in 7mm-08.  At least they are in the Southern Arkansas/North Texas/Eastern Oklahoma type area.

[Mainer]

Larry:  I partially agree with you about the trend to use too much gun.  It amazes me to walk into a discount store and see 7mm Mags and 300 Win. Mags., but not a 30-30 or .308 on the rack.  That said, I think the .243 may be a little light for deer under local conditions.  I'm not saying it won't do the job, I just want a little larger margin for error.  I consider the 30-06 and .270 to be the MAXIMUM I would use for my purposes (deer in Maine, antelope out West) and they may be too much of a good thing, especially on antelope.  7mm-08/.308 seem to fill the gap.

JHP45:  I'm not just talking about ammo for hunting, I'm talking about the ability to buy ammo between my house and the range on a Saturday morning.  I'm also concerned about being able to fly from Portland to Butte or Missoula and be able to get off the plane and buy the same load I've been using back home.  Do the airlines/TSA allow you to check handloaded ammo?  I don't know.

Bluebayou:  I'll need to take another look at the ammo shelves at my local WalMart.  Maybe I missed the 7mm-08.

Thanks for the input!!

[myarmor]

Ok lets see:
Range: 1-300yards
Game: Deer and Antelope
Other: Wide sorce of ammo, and cheap plinking rounds as well.

It might just be me, but thats the exact definition of the 308 and 30-06.
And the ability to shoot much farther than 300 yards.
Not that the 7-08 or 270 wouldn't do it, they would do it just as good, but for it's the cheap rounds that push the 308 and 30-06 ahead if this was my decision.

[poncaguy]

My favorites are the 7MM-08 and 308.  My first rifle was a Rem BDL 30-06, shot good but didn't like the performance  on deer (me, not the caliber)Sold it and bought a BDL 270, shot it for years, all deer just bang-flop , but maybe 2 or 3 ran 20 - 30 yards. I have bolt guns in 25-06, 7mm-08 and 270 WSM. But in handi's the 7mm-08, 308 and 45-70 are definitely my favorite deer rounds.

[.308]

 It always confuses me when folks talk about the need to get ammo while out on a hunt somewhere..... When did you last go hunting and forget your ammo???

:-D  :-D  :-D  Now that's funny.

[Mac11700]

My choice for your long range antelope/deer rifle...the 25-06...it will do everything you want it to do...and in the last 2 of them in a Handi that I own..both gave less than MOA with factory Winchester Supreme 115 grain Silver Ballistic Tips....The cases don't stick...they are extreamly accurate with most factory loads,and Walmart carries the ammo...If I wanted something larger...it would be the 280..but finding ammo might prove more difficult...I've checked in the 5 surrounding Walley Wolds here ...only 2 carry the Remington 280 loads.The 30-06 is my 3rd choice...not because it isn't capable...but I've only seen a couple that would produce sub-moa accuracy with factory loads consistantly...and my Ultra-comp is one of them.Antelope and deer at long range requires a-lot more practice from you...and it also requires your rifle to be up to the task as well....2 inch groups at 100 yards is acceptable for a-lot of people for deer...push that range to 400-500 yards plus...and it is a whole different ball game....not only do you have to caplable..but your scope & rifle do too...The terrain in some Western locations will require you shooting prone...it would be a real good idea if you practiced from this position..just to see if you can actually hit a antelope target in the vitals at these ranges...it isn't as easy as shooting off the bench at a bulls eye at 100 yards...I'm not saying you can't already do this...just that it won't hurt to practice and to see if your rifle/scope/ammo set-up is capable and comfortable enough...

Mac

[FirstFreedom]

For those purposes, the .270 Win is the way to go, IMO.

Subtract antelope, then 7mm-08.

Add Elk, then .308 or .30-06.

The above does not account for sticking cases.  You'll have to get that issue worked out prior to the season, regardless of gun choice.  If you do not or cannot work it out, then you will simply carry with you into the field a collapsible or threaded take-down ramrod to eject stuck cases.   What I have done on one of my Handi SB2 frames is order an extra Huntsman forearm with ramrod, and throw it on regular rifle barrels, in order to have a ramrod in the field.  But it jars loose easily when attached to non-Huntsman barrels, and thus could easily be lost, it would seem, so I can't really recommend the practice.

[lostsniper308]

im .308 all the way.

[bjohnsonaz]

30.06 Ammunition all over the world. Reduced recoil ammo is gaining favor probably making it good for the shorter range needs. And you could use it for that Moose in Maine!

[Ditchdigger]

I would go with a 280 mainly because of the 26" tube. I hav'nt heard of any 280 brass sticking or anything bad about them. It will also be very close to the 7 mag. in speed and flatshooting.  Digger

[Mainer]

Whoa!!  No need to get close to 7mm Mag. for my purposes.

I'm still going back and forth between the original four cartridges I listed and you guys throw 25-06 and .280 at me!!  I'm not saying they're not good cartridges, but I'm trying to narrow things down.

It will probably be .270, .308, or 30-06.  What I pick will probably depend upon the whim of the moment.

Still, though, does anyone have any input on a .270 out of a .22" barrel?

[Mac11700]

It'll work...but... I haven't seen one yet besides the Ultra-Comps that shoot as accurately and consistantly as the 25-06's and the 280's though....and the longer barrels give you quite a bit of extra velocity from them,if you can find a good shooting Ultra-Comp either in the 270 or 30-06...I would go that way...but for those needing to shoot prone...they can kick up a-lot of dust...and they are very noisy to those off to one side or the other...not too much more to the shooter or those directly behind...if you can find a 30-06 Ultra-Comp ...go for it...it will serve you very well...it's one of my favorites...

150 grain Federal Fusion ammo 5 shot group @100 yards...





Mac

[trotterlg]

You will probably lose about 50 fps per inch of barrel, so about 100 fps difference over a 24 inch barrel, could be slightly more depending on the bullet weights you shoot.  You can make up any difference using a very good low drag bullet or just shooting a boat tail bullet instead of a flat base one after the bullet has traveled 100 yards.  You are worrying about insignaficant things, the accuracy of the rifle and the glass you have on it is far more important than how fast the bullet is going.  You like the .270, so get one, tune it up and it will kill anything in North America at any range you can hit it.  What you really need is a 25-06, it is near perfect for what you want to do with it.  The .270 would finish in a strong second or third place.  Larry

[FirstFreedom]

I think a 22" bbl is fine for a .270, and will utilize the vast majority of the powder burn.  I think one only 'needs' a 24+ bbl for things like 7mm rem mag or other mags.  I'd probably go with the .270.  It's so incredibly versatile.  If I had to pick but one centerfire cartridge for all hunting, it would be either .270 win or 6.5x55 swede.  I'd have to put the .270 a smidge ahead of .25-06 for your purposes, because of the longer bbl life than a .25-06, and the heavier bullets in case you ever DO decide to hunt elk, caribou, moose, etc.