Author Topic: win M94 double charge (Read 1640 times)

hiram · « **on:** October 06, 2005, 05:23:09 PM »

I accidentally double charged a 32 Win Spl case with 28.5 gr of H110. I tiopped this off with a 180 gr cast bullet. The lever was difficult to open. When it did open, the downward movement was fine until I got to the end of the stroke--there was quite a firm spot to get over. The same on closing--the lever started off firm and then closed easily after getting by the hard spot. Any idea as to what is bent or damaged and what to replace. Thanks.

John Traveler1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2005, 08:01:08 PM »

That's really BAD news, Hiram. I wasn't even aware that H110 was a recommended powder for the .32 Winchester Special.

The action stiffness that you describe is probably due to the locking surfaces deforming and taking a "set". The vertical action locking bars buttress the rear of the bolt and travel in receiver slots as you cycle the action. If they really are damaged, I see no easy remedy except re-cutting the slots and using oversized locking bars. You almost certainly now have excessive headspace, and the rifle would not be safe to fire. Please have a gunsmith check over your rifle and recommend the repair.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2005, 04:26:12 AM »

JohnT is correct. The problem is called imprinting in mauser rifles and the old 94's can also be affected. The 'hard spot' is likely the lever forcing the locking bars out of the depressen they peened into the receiver rails. The action has simply been over stressed. Repair is problematical. Repairs could get expensive but the rifle is likely dangerous now. Even if a headspace check shows ok the headspace will worsen rapidly. The rifle should certainly be repaired..take it to a competant smith...

hiram · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2005, 10:30:04 AM »

Thanks for the info. I'll have it checked.

hiram · « **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2005, 04:50:32 PM »

I took the rifle apart. Everything that should be flat was flat. The bolt was straight. Pins were not bent. The locking bolt and bolt slid easily in the rails. It does appear that the bolt slides over the hammer with extra pressure at the end of the lever stroke, and that is where the trouble is. I will get to the gunsmith for his opinion.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 10, 2005, 06:52:58 AM »

Was the case damaged by the incident? The only thing I can think of that would cause the bolts movement to be more difficult at the end like that would be a swelled bolt face or a bent bolt?? Did the case head seperate, primer flatten, pierce? If the case wasn't damaged, it may be that something else has happened...

hiram · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2005, 11:24:33 AM »

On close inspection, there is a crack around the circumference of the case right below the shoulder. There was no head separation, no primer flattening, no primer backing out, or any other case damage. There isn't any discoloration on the neck from gas blowback. I neck sized the cases. Thanks for your input.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2005, 06:14:00 AM »

How did you reaach the conclusion that there was a double charge? High pressures leave cracks in the case just ahead of the rim, as the pressure locks the entire case to the chamber walls the bolt allows the casehead to move to the rear... The result is a ruptured case. A shoulder crack would likely indicate a case failure from overwork or case stretch. If there is excessive headspace and you necksize to compensate, the case may have already been stretched too thin and it fails. Perhaps you simply had a part break and ccause the hard movement of the bolt/lever. Keep us informed when you find out the cause. Many leverguns react badly to high pressures but the case is still the weakest point and should show some signs of a pressure spike. A normal primer indicates there may be something else causing the problem. The smith should be able to find the problem.

hiram · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2005, 12:18:17 PM »

I had 5 loaded shells. I fired three-all OK -- 14.6 gr of H110.
The fourth case misfired. I tried to fire it 3 or 4 times with no results. The fifth load was an extra loud crack, increased recoil, but not terrible, the the lever was locked closed. After fooling around, I got the lever to open. Near the end of the stroke was a firm spot. The same on returning the lever to bolt closed position. It started out difficult to move, got over the hard spot, and then closed with normal effort.

I went home and pulled the bullet on case #4. The case was empty--powderless. This with the increased recoil and noise leads me to believe the case was doublecharge.

There is one thing I will do tonight I just thought about while writing. I will attempt to charge a case, no bullet, with 29.2 gr of H110 and see if it overflows or holds the powder.

John Traveler1 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2005, 07:04:56 PM »

I can guarantee you that 29 grains of H110 will fit into the .30-30 case.

14.5 grains H110 is about a full load for the .30 US M1 Carbine, and the .30-30 Winchester case is more than twice the capacity of the .30 carbine.

John

gunnut69 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2005, 08:08:00 PM »

It'll fit in a 32 special case also..they're almost identical. Have you checked the bolt and receiver to be certain the action didn't spread when fired? The 94 built with higher pressures in mind had a re-enforced section at the rear to keep the action from spreading away from the locking lug notches.

hiram · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2005, 12:31:45 PM »

Went to the Gsmith and dropped off factory ammo for testing. I showed him the case and he said the case was reloaded too many times and thinned out--therefore the crack. He did see, with magnifiers, that primer did flow back around the firing pin. Enough of the appetizers. And now for the main course--The hammer extension moved under the heavy recoil and rubbed on the underside of the bolt. This happened when the bolt was out far enough to reach the hammer, henceforth, at the end of the stroke like I previously stated. The Gsmith will go to the range anyway for a checkout. I don't believe anything will come from this except a clean bill of health. But if someyhing does, you guys will be the first to know. Thank you all for your input.

Hiram

Kivaari · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2005, 03:53:36 PM »

Where did you get that load data?

Sounds like dangerously too little of a powder like H110. :eek:

hiram · « **Reply #13 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:49:48 PM »

Can't remember where I saw it but it was on the net. It filled less than half the case. Recoil was nothing, but enough to know that the bullet would not get stuck in the barrel. Its worth a try.

Charles/NM · « **Reply #14 on:** November 29, 2005, 07:33:39 AM »

Your double charge was the result of poor reloading technique. You should always look in all the charged cases in your loading block before seating bullets to insure all have powder to the same height. This is part of Basic Reloading 101.

clodbuster · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2005, 10:06:30 AM »

Hiram Why are you using H110 in the 30-30? Youre asking for trouble. Use a powder that nearly fills the case. say H335 or 3031 or many many other choices available. just my 2 cents worth.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2005, 12:28:30 PM »

What I'd like to know is how this played out.....did you get a clean bill of health for the .32? I'd hate to think you might be out a gun.............

hiram · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2005, 01:27:53 PM »

All is well, thanks. I have since fired the rifle in a 100 yd offhand match, my cast bullets, and I came in second. Williams FP sight and blade.

Thanks for the concern.

Hiram

Happy, healthy, and safe holidays to all.

clodbuster · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2005, 10:09:26 AM »

Well done Hiram!! Good shooting

hiram · « **Reply #19 on:** December 03, 2005, 06:28:39 PM »

Thank you.