Author Topic: herters u9 or j9 need your help  (Read 3648 times)

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Offline licker420

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« on: October 13, 2005, 03:42:22 PM »
I have a herters rifle I accquired from my father, It is stamped St. Hubert co. Made in England, It is a 264 mag. I am looking to get a new stock for it and have found some on the internet.
I am not sure what this one is, I had read the ones made in England where  the u9 but they mentioned a different manufacture. Also any other info. about this rifle would be greatly appreciated. I am assuming it is a long action because of the caliber, I am a novice so bear with me.
Thanks

Offline Ramrod

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 04:33:13 PM »
If  my cloudy memory serves me right, the Herter's U9 was the Parker Hale action, a very well made British Mauser. The J9 was a Yugoslavian made gun. Both guns look to me to be better made than anything I have seen at my local Wally-world. When I have more time, I might be able to look up a stock for you.
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline licker420

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 05:05:52 PM »
Parker hale action, that is the name I had heard, Like I said it was stamped St. Hubert Co. Thats what has been making wonder.
Also the stamping that says St. Huber Co. made in England is stamped by a machine during manufacture The (264 mag) stamp appears to be hand stamped. I appreciate your time and if you find a stock that would be great.
Thanks

Offline Ramrod

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 05:47:56 AM »
I thought I knew where one was, but I was wrong.
These guys can make one up for you, plain or fancy...
http://www.rifle-stocks.com/actions_available.htm
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline licker420

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 08:48:22 AM »
Thats one of the sites I had found, as long as mine is a u9 i should be in business, Looks like they have some nice stocks there.
Thanks again

Offline Brithunter

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2005, 10:10:27 PM »
Hi All,

    Sorry to tell you that the U9 action was designed and made by BSA in Birmingham for Herters, there are three action lengths and BSA supplied them in the white with a rough final polish as Herters were having the barrels made in the us and fitted there as well as the stocks, the rifles wre then blued in the US but it seems they were not final polished before the bluing.

    The action is not Mauser but I suppose as it has two front lugs it could be agrued that it's Mauser based, however as Mannlichers also had two front lugs this is a questionable agrument :roll:

    BSA then further refined the action and produced their own version called the Monarch if memory serves me correctly. P-H had nothing to do with these rifles, the U9 anyway as P-H was a seperate rival firm in Birmingham. I have seen one U9 for sale here in the UK and that was a 7mm Rem Mag which must have been brought through the PX or brought into the UK by a service man as they were never offered for sale here. This rifle had the complete set of Herters bits, cope mounts (Wavers re-badged), sling+ swivels and a Herters branded scope. It was in excellent condition and if I ahd the money and a space for a 7m i would have seriously considered it for the collection. It sold fairly quickly too!

Offline Ramrod

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2005, 05:01:15 AM »
Brithunter, Thanks for the correction. I said my memory was not good. :) But the Parker Hale was a Mauser copy was it not?
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline Brithunter

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2005, 06:39:58 AM »
Hi Ramrod,

    Parker-Hale used Pure Mauser 98 type actions for certain models of their production, most noticably on the Models, 1100, 1200 and Safari. Oh and including the model 81 Classic :oops: , the 1100M used a slightly longer magnum length action to house the .375 H&H and the .458 Win Mag, I am not sure but I also believe that they also chambered the .300 H&H as well. The Midland 2100 used a different action with a bolt which resembled the Springfield 03 one, as for the model 1000 I think that may have aslo been pure Mauser. Oh I do now remeber that the 1100M was possibly available in 404 Jeffries but I cannot find my old P-H flyer so I cannot check  :oops:

    Some of their actions were war repatriations from WW2, tons of new unfinished and partly finished actions were grabbed by the allies from Germany. P-H used some of these to build rifles, others came from Santa Barbra in Spain and some I believe from FN. The Spanish ones were marked on the side of the tang of the action although it's sometimes faint after the cleaning and polishing for the blacking.

   Parker-Hale also built rifles on the Le Enfield action and I believe some P-14/17's. They also made a superb line of target sights and sporting sights as well as target shooting accesories like slings, ammo boxes and scope mounts and spotting scope stands. P-H converted the No4 Enfields into very good target rifles like the T4 in 7.62x51 with a heavy barrel and twin zero aperture target sights and a globe fore sight with inter-changable elements.

   Sorry to say that there is not a publication which covers P-H's line up fo rifles which to my mind is a real shame as it would greatly help in indentifying which model a rifle is and when it was in production. Models like the 1200 evolved over the years with different styling to the stock and also became a sub model the 1200 Super Clip which had a detachable magazine. Oh and I forgot the 1200V which has a 24" heavy barrel, I picked one of these up chambered for the 6mm Rem cartridge.

Offline Ramrod

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2005, 10:48:35 AM »
Brithunter,
Thanks for the excellent info. Such history is hard to come by on this side of the pond. :D
"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine." Patti Smith

Offline lilabner

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2005, 12:50:25 PM »
You may have a fine shooter there. I had a U9 (BSA) in .257 Roberts and it was quite accurate.

Offline 260 AAR

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2005, 09:42:47 AM »
Frank DeHaas book "Bolt Action Rifle" has an article on the Parker Hale Rifles [p 183] as well as a lot of info on the BSAs and the U-9 actions supplied to Herters and others. Well worth the reading. This is THE BIBLE for rifle owners.

Aloha, Mark
Hawaii No Ka Oe!

Offline Slamfire

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2005, 02:58:28 PM »
Quote from: 260 AAR
Frank DeHaas book "Bolt Action Rifle" has an article on the Parker Hale Rifles [p 183] as well as a lot of info on the BSAs and the U-9 actions supplied to Herters and others. Well worth the reading. This is THE BIBLE for rifle owners.

Aloha, Mark


I guess that makes Jack O'Conner's "The Hunting Rifle" the apocraphia, huh?
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline 260 AAR

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2005, 07:02:28 AM »
OConners books crap? Not likely!! Just that DeHaas goes into the various action lengths and has the measurements for mag boxes and tang screws to make it easy for a guy like me to figure if an action is suited for wildcatting etc. I have Mr. O Conners books too and enjoy the immensly. No harm intended for the O Conner fans.

Aloha, Mark
Hawaii No Ka Oe!

Offline licker420

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I have to start this over
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2005, 02:30:33 AM »
I still am not positive mine is a u9 it only has a single front lug.
Made in England, and there is a small stamp that says (bna).
I was expecting to see (bsa) I need to be sure before I order a stock.
Thanks

Offline Brithunter

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2005, 07:14:03 AM »
Hi There,

    Check the mark again ............ sure it's not BNP? because that's the Birmingham Proof mark.

Offline licker420

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maybe
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2005, 08:49:36 AM »
You might be right, guns at home I'm at work.
If it is bnp does that mean its a u9?
Thanks again for the help.

Offline Brithunter

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2005, 12:16:17 PM »
No not really but it means it has been though the British proof system. Can you post a photo of the action?

Offline licker420

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It say bnp
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2005, 04:47:59 PM »
It does says bnp on the left hand side of the chamber with a little crown on top.
On the right side it says  
 
MADE IN ENGLAND
 
ST. HUBERT CO.
I would be happy to post pics, do I need to take the stock off? for underside pics or will the top do.
Please let me know, I really appreciate your help, and thank you
Eric

Offline Slamfire

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2005, 07:01:54 PM »
Quote from: 260 AAR
OConners books crap? Not likely!! Just that DeHaas goes into the various action lengths and has the measurements for mag boxes and tang screws to make it easy for a guy like me to figure if an action is suited for wildcatting etc. I have Mr. O Conners books too and enjoy the immensly. No harm intended for the O Conner fans.

Aloha, Mark


So does Stuart Ottsen's "The Boilt Action Rifle", and you can understand his writing, while DeHaas tend to wander.  :wink:
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline licker420

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what about the topic
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2005, 06:15:04 AM »
I keep getting these e-mails assuming I'm going to get more information and its all about these opinions on these books, maybe someone should start a topic on the books instead of raping my topic, for petty arguments.

Offline Brithunter

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herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2005, 09:22:22 AM »
Sorry I cannot help you as that s not a BSA action as far as I know. Certainly not a U9. There are or were several companies which made up rifles for export only and were not sold here in the UK. I ahve an inkling that ST. HUBERT CO.  may be one of them.

   Of course ST. HUBERT is the patron saint of hunters and there is a ST. HUBERT Club but that's as far as I know.

   Good luck in your search. :oops:

Offline mrbigtexan

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Re: herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 09:17:39 PM »
i have a herters commercial mauser that was made in germany. it has a boltstop/ejector unlike i have ever seen on a mauser, anyone else seen one like this?

Offline mannyrock

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Re: herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2012, 03:58:47 AM »
 
Brithunter,
 
   You are the perfect person to write a short book on the Parker-Hale Rifles.  It doesn't have to be War and Peace.  Just a couple of good pictures and a couple of pages of text on each identifiable type or subtype.  You could then print it by yourself, and sell copies.  I'll bet you'd sell alot. 
 
Regards, Mannyrock
 
   

Offline Brithunter

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Re: herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2012, 10:32:05 PM »

Brithunter,
 
   You are the perfect person to write a short book on the Parker-Hale Rifles.  It doesn't have to be War and Peace.  Just a couple of good pictures and a couple of pages of text on each identifiable type or subtype.  You could then print it by yourself, and sell copies.  I'll bet you'd sell alot. 
 
Regards, Mannyrock
 
 




  Mannyrock ................................... hmmm sounds like you have talking to Mr Smith from Smitharms here in the UK  ::)  he has been on about my writing a book for some years now. It's OK for him being an academic type but I am not so really have no idea where to begin. Then of course there is my lack in skill with grammar . So for now I will just keep on learning what I can about them and gathering more information [size=78%].  [/size][size=78%] [/size]

Offline mannyrock

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Re: herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2012, 04:21:49 AM »
Brit,
 
   If you don't know where to begin, then that's because you are trying to write it sentence by sentence, instead of building a "framework" first, and then filling it in. 
 
  When you build a house, you don't start at one corner, and then build a finished structure one foot at a time.  You lay out a big rectangle, you build the foundation on that rectangle, and then you put up the frame walls to subdivide it into pieces.  After you do this, you go back and finish the walls, room by room, by putting on the sheathing or drywall.
 
   Layout for your book?  Easy.
 
  First Chapter:  A Brief History of Parker Hale.
 
   Second Chapter:  Parket Hale's firsts modern Bolt Action Sporter:  The Model "X"
 
  Third Chapter:  The Model "Y", successor to the Model "X".
 
   Fourth Chapter:  The Model "Z", successor to the Model "Y"
 
    Etc.
 
  I think you can see how this would work.  Just draw up an outline of the chapters, going Model by Model.  If there are submodels within the main models, then just divide the Chapters into subsections, based on the submodels.
 
   A final chapter would be "Interesting and Odd Variants by Parker Hale."
 
  Once your outline is laid out, you just start at the beginning, and fill it in.  Limit the book to bolt action sporters only, or otherwise you will be overwhelmed and never get anything done.   Once you write the bolt action book, you can always add a "Section 2",  and cover (in the same manner) some other type of PH rifle.
 
   All in all, pretty easy old Chap.     Write in short and simple declaratory sentences, avoiding the passive tense whenever possible.
 
   Personally, I think your posts have been very well written, and more than a few of them could have served as chapters of a book.
 
   Guess I high-jacked this topic, but maybe it will lead to a nice book.
 
Best, Mannyrock
 
   
 
 
 

Offline AJAX

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Re: herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2012, 08:01:16 AM »
Licker,
I feel your pain about having your post go off on a tangent.  In any event, would it be possible for you to post some pics of the rifle and particularly the action?  I find it hard to believe that someone is going to chamber the .264 in a one lugged action.

Ajax

Offline mannyrock

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Re: herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2012, 10:03:34 AM »
 
  My apologies Licker.
 
Mannyrock

Offline bilmac

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Re: herters u9 or j9 need your help
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2012, 12:09:13 PM »
I have had both the U9 and the J9 but it was a long time ago. If I remember right the J9 was all Mauser, so the ejector/bolt stop is a little box like gizzy on the left rear of the action. It has a little bump on the top so you can get your thumb on it to pull it away from the action and then the bolt will come out of the action. If your rifle is like that you have the J9.
 
I would dispute that your rifle has only one locking lug, Rifles with one locking lug are extremely rare and I don't think Herters ever sold any.