445 SM range time

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Range report on 445 SM

1st off it looks like I have an oversized chamber due to case swell at the web more noticeable with 445 than 44 but still there, may be cleaner brass its shinier
44mag web 0.453/ ring made ahead of web 0.4595/  ½ down case 0.4565/ & neck 0.454
445sm web 0.453/  ring made ahead of web 0.4595/ ½ down case 0.458& neck (new reamed area) 0.453  fired case slowly tapers from the web to neck
unfired 44mag web  0.453/   ahead of web 0.452/ ½ down case 0.4515 & neck0.452 factory win 240 soft point white box (assuming .429 bullet)
unfired 44sm web  0.453/ ahead of web 0.4515/ ½ down case 0.451/ & neck 0.4525 with .430 bullet

paper clip was used to check for head separation but no catch just slight noticeable outward bulge due to the oversized chamber


Used 240 white box win to sight in, not good 8 inch pattern I think I have a lg bore so
I slugged the bore with the egg sinker method .432 go figure

Looks like win 296 is the way to go for vel. I used a number of powders with 240xtp, 265 horn & 300 nosler

Did not really set up for superb accuracy mostly crony work but looks like 265 with 31.5 win 296 did the best 1.25 at 50(not much sleep the night before & too much coffe)

All loads had a heavy crimp
 aa1680
35gr 240xtp 2015 ave 21spread
36gr 240xtp 2020 ave 35 spread
37gr 240 xtp2060 ave 44 spread
no real increal vel with powder increase

32.5gr 265horn 1845 ave 10 spread
33.5gr 265horn 1860 ave 48 spread
34.5gr 265horn 1935 ave 10 spread


29.5gr 300nos 1660ave 20 spread
30.5gr 300nos 1705ave 20 spread
31.5gr 300nos 1765ave 10 spread
some vel increase with increased powder
acc was 2.5 at 50yrds for all nothing to brag about

Lit’l gun only had 240 info
31.5gr 240xtp 2150 spread 90
acc 4 in bad load

imr4227
only had enough for 240’s
30gr 240xtp 2035 spread 39
acc 2.5 at 50


THE VEL WINNER IS WIN 296

33gr296 240xtp 2270 ave spread 29
31.5gr296 265horn 2150 ave spread20 (This is the same vel I get out of my 18in guide gun with 1 &1/2 X the powder chargr 47.5 reloader 7)
best acc 1.25 at 50 ill work with this one
30gr296 300nos 2075 ave spread 40


for fun I used win296 loads in 44sp, 44mag & 444sm to see the diff
240xtp
44sp 1260/ 44mag 1810/ 445sm 2270
265horn
44sp1150/ 44mag1700/ 445sm 2150
300nos
44sp 950/ 44mag 1575/ 445sm 2075

did not have time to run the 444marlins through the handi barrel yes it’s a 444marlin

all in all not to overly excited about the accuracy maybe I can tune it in a bit by neck sizing only (fire formed cases) for neck tension who knows

Looks like this is going to need some work. For me it looks like 265 hornady & win 296 may have to try some 300xtp’s larger dia than the noslers .430 cannot use anything less than .430dia. May have to look at .432 cast but they are not an item you can go & pick up off the shelf

all in all a good info day not so good accuracy day but a bad day at the range is better than a good day at work

[Ditchdigger]

My Brass does the same thing,swelling in front of the web. I read somwhere that Starline had some bad brass get into circulation,and they had gotten it from Midway. Its amazing how much more effient  the 445 is over the 444,when it comes to speed and power. Digger

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Hey Digger, have you measured any of your fired brass?
Do you full lenght size or partially size the brass. I'm going to try a few partially sized so there is not as much wear infront of the web & reduce the possibility of separation

[Ditchdigger]

I fullenght sized mine and after a few sizings the problem seems to be getting better. I checked the brass from Lik2hunts gun and it was the same as mine with the bulge just in front of the web. Your're getting higher velocity's than I'm getting,it must be the oversized bore with less friction.  Digger

[.308]

One hole, I ain't no expert you see, but I was wondering, have you tinkered with the crimp, and the overall length, regarding the accuracy?

Your velocities are up there for sure. Like digger said you may have an oversized bore, I do. I slugged mine, twice to be sure, got .432. :cry:
 
So it's the brass, huh. I'm not alone then. I was kinda worried until I saw these posts. Maybe jeff223 will notice this thread and let us know if it's happening in his Contender.  :?

[jeff223]

no problem with my gun or brass so far.i have loaded up some of my brass 4 times and it looks like new.i have my sizing die set up so it just takes the primer out and sizes down the length of the case about 3/4 of the way down.i think my chamber is up to snuff.

just load and shoot your guns and watch your brass.these straight walled cases are very forgiving when it comes to reloading.the nef bores and chambers are alittle out of whack sometimes but i think you guys will end up with some good shooters out of the deal.the life of your brass might end up being alittle shorter than it should be but only time will tell.

anyone shot off a bench yet for accuracy?i would like to know how these rifles are shooting.your rifles should shoot better now than they did before when they were 44mags.

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Rechecked the bore yup 432 guess its off to bear tooth for some 432 265's gas cks or so for the next time to the range after ML season. Really want to take this up to NY this year. Well see if we can get it to be respectable enough to do so

[Fred M]

Digger.

The only way brass can swell in front of the web is when the chamber is too big. With the pressure of the 44 super Mag there is no way to exceed the elastic limit of the chamber steel.

The 44 Mag has practically no taper and ejection depends on the spring back of the brass and brass will spring back at any pressure the super mag will develop.

The elastic limit of brass is about 17kpsi so any brass will swell in an over size chamber. Some brass more than others depending on the load.

[Ditchdigger]

Fred I was hopeing you would jump in on this. My 44 mag. brass does not do the bulge thing,and mic's the same as the 445 on the web part. I read somewhere on a forum that Starline had made a bunch of bad brass for the 445 and Midway had all of it. It may be a bunch of B.S. but it makes you wonder. Mine,after a few sizing's has improved alot,so maybe the brass is getting harder with workhardning of the brass. Its probably just a oversized chamber thats causing it. If you have anymore theorys about it I would sure like to hear about it. The brass has'nt lenght'ed any at all. Digger

[Fred M]

Digger.
Forgot to mention that under dimensioned brass will do the same thing.
I have 22-250 brass that I turn into 25 Hunter. The base measures.464 and the Hunter chamber is .465".

Chambers in some 22-250 are .469 and .470. Well they all bulge a bit but that is really no big deal. But the difference in the lesser base dimension will with hot loads stretch the primer pockets in short order.

Rem 280 brass too measures .464. They did that for different reason. Namely to make them function in their semi auto. Norma 280 brass in acccurate at .467" and My reamer is .468. The 25 Hunter reamer is.465.

But that not to say it is bad brass. If you want long lasting brass, tight chambers and dies that do not work the brass too much, have an advantage.

I had a 243AI for which I fitted brass that did not need to be sized at all.
It could be loaded just by priming, add powder and seat a bullet. The neck had 0.0006" radial clearance and neck tension was taking care of by spring back of the brass.

Varmint Al does shoot a rifle like that. It works well but not with hot loads.

Yes you are right many people do circulate BS for lack of understanding and put on an air calling a product garbage when in fact their guns are the culprit.

[.308]

Yes you are right many people do circulate BS for lack of understanding and put on an air.

No way. :-D  :-D  :-D

[MtJerry]

You guys don't get discouraged about the .432 bore sizes.  They can be made to shoot just fine.  Just  order some cast bullets sized to .432 and you will be pleasantly surprized.

Also, if you are shooting hornady's (.431), crimp them HARD and they will shoot fine as well.

[Ranger J]

A lot of the 44 mag bores seem to be running around 432.  After three years of frustration with jacketed bullets I started using using hard cast bullets at 43l for light loads and 432 GC for heavier loads and like magic the 44 now groups like all my other Handi barrels do. I again thank those of you who made this suggestion to me.

[.308]

Lee will do a custom size die for 29 bucks. If I can get my mold to drop 'em at around .433/.435 then I may order one to fit my .432 barrel. Should I get it dead on .432 or a hair bigger? Say .4325 or .433?

[jeff223]

now that this is all hashed out,how are they shooting accuracy wise?

[MtJerry]

I'm going to the range today with mine now that I have brass (thanks to .308  :wink: ).

Range report will follow this afternnon or this evening.

I loaded some leftover 300gr. XTP's that I had .. I ain't holding my breath for stellar accuracy, but ya never know.  

I did have an interesting problem pop up with the 300gr's.  I initially seated them at the first crimp groove, but when I tested their fit in the chamber, they stuck because the bullet was into the rifling.  I had to re-seat them to the second groove to get them to seat.  Anyone else have this problem?

I also loaded some of the 265gr. beartooth WFN bullets that I bought sized at .432 ... I am expecting them to work well.

For powder I went with WW296.

[ONE HOLE 4570]

Keep us posted with the 265 .432 bear thooths I need to order some & would like to see some good results :wink:

[.308]

I did have an interesting problem pop up with the 300gr's.  I initially seated them at the first crimp groove, but when I tested their fit in the chamber, they stuck because the bullet was into the rifling.

That's a good problem, means the new chamber ain't too long like some H&R chambers are known to be. :grin:

I also loaded some of the 265gr. beartooth WFN bullets that I bought sized at .432 ....

I can't wait on the report on these.

[jeff223]

yes you can reach the lands with your bullet if you want.this is a good thing.i never seated to touch the lands yet i just crimp in the grove and the gun shoots very good right there.with the cast boolits you might want to seat them out alittle farther than that.i dont know that to be fact as im not a good cast reloader and shooter,but im learning :oops: